Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

You remind me of "Argueless"?

However I see he/she are no longer around >>>Hmmm.

Well "Argueless" was on Ignore...the wall of text, out of context, always words of condemnation was hurting my eyes, I think I will do the same with you.

I wanted to add after seeing his last POST.......I believe you hit the nail on the head......time will tell and mannerisms ALWAYS give the tell away.....and his last POST......just like him......

 

[theanointedwinner]

Hebrews 13:8 - Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever


Sustained yesterday, sustained today, sustained forever

Once saved, apply Hebrews 13:8 to that

Therefore, osas is true

Else, that "once saved" violated the sameness of a Bible verse Hebrews 13:8

 

[Macabeus]

As well.....

I believe that sanctification is an event first where we are separated unto Christ (our position) and made holy once and for all, and then it’s a process where we learn to live out of that position of holiness.

The process does not sanctify us, it teaches us how to live a sanctified life.

Agreed. It is God who sanctifies us. Both positionally and practically.

All of salvation is of God. Regeneration, justification, adoption, sanctification, preservation, glorification, all of it is His Work.

 

[Macabeus]

Excellent proposition!!

“By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all” (Hebrews 10:10, NASB 1995).

Sanctified ...means set apart

Justified - placed securely in Christ
Sanctified - set apart in Christ

Our life is now hidden in Christ. (Col 3:3)
We are partakers of His divine nature, a precious gift (2Peter 1:4)

Sanctification is not a process of becoming holy (set apart). Only Jesus is holy.
Sanctification is a process of discovering and uncovering His holiness already accomplished and given to us in union with Christ Jesus.

I do agree that holiness is derived from Him alone, so if that is what you meant, then I agree. But just some verses to consider.

1 Peter 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

(conversation means walk or life in Ye Olde English)

1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. (these are commands)

2 Peter 3:11- Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,

2 Corinthiahs 7:1- Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

 

[Macabeus]

sanctify = hagiazō

Strongs definition

to make holy, that is, (ceremonially) purify or consecrate; (mentally) to venerate: - hallow, be holy, sanctify.

hagiosune- Holiness. ἁγιωσύνη hagiōsýnē, hag-ee-o-soo'-nay; from G40; sacredness (i.e. properly, the quality):—holiness.

Holiness is derived from Christ alone, but more verses to consider.

2 Corinthians 7:1- Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness G42 in the fear of God.

1 Thess. 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness G42 before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

hagnizo- Purify. ἁγνίζω hagnízō, hag-nid'-zo; from G53; to make clean, i.e. (figuratively) sanctify (ceremonially or morally):—purify (self).

1 John 3:3-And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth G48himself, even as he is pure.

The bottom line is that it is God who works in us to will and to do of His Good Pleasure...(Phil. 2:13) so ALL of the Glory and praise go to HIM, the author and finisher of our faith.

 

[PS]

Hebrews 13:8 - Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever

Sustained yesterday, sustained today, sustained forever

Once saved, apply Hebrews 13:8 to that

Therefore, osas is true

Else, that "once saved" violated the sameness of a Bible verse Hebrews 13:8

Jesus Christ the same yesterday and today and forever. (Heb 13:8 MKJV)

Of course Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today and forever. The trouble is we are not always the same.

So what happens if a Christian renounces Jesus, converts to Islam and their false Jesus and worships Allah?
Remember we are only saved once and Hebrews 6:4-6 tells us there is no coming back.

Hebrews 6:4-6 - It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

We don't mess with God and worship him one minute and false gods the next like the Israelites did.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Peter.....go look in the mirror......all that know you, know that your view = not much

Thank you for such a good summary of your perspective on the gospel.

The gospel is about God cleansing and purifying sinners to exalt them up to being
co-heirs with Him. I wonder how many grasp this, or are they fixated on the world
and their place in it, with wealth, self indulgence and status.

17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ,
if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory
that will be revealed in us.
Rom 8

6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death
--even death on a cross!
Phil 2

7 Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.
8 He will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 1

9 And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight,
10 so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ,
11 filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ--to the glory and praise of God.
Phil 1

If believers have never obtained purity and blamelessness today, how can they hope to stay strong to
the end, so they are blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ?

And dear people of God, would any impure believer ever be able to admit their condition, because in doing
so they would exclude themselves from the promises God has laid down. So the price of reality, is harsh,
unless it leads to repentance, cleansing, faith, and the beginning of a real walk with Jesus.

So understand this brothers and sisters, those caught in this position, are in a prison of denial, and nothing
from this false tree will not be polluted with their perspective. Literally only they will know the effect they
have. And it is they who pick these battles, and cannot stop condemning others, because to them the pure
are their enemy.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Hebrews 13:8 - Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever
Sustained yesterday, sustained today, sustained forever
Once saved, apply Hebrews 13:8 to that
Therefore, osas is true
Else, that "once saved" violated the sameness of a Bible verse Hebrews 13:8

osas may well be true, from a certain perspective.

But who are the saved, and what is this point of salvation?
And if one falls away to the point of denying ones faith, were these people ever saved?

A preacher who believes in the elect, was asked if you doubted ones own election is there security?
Their answer was probably not.

The answer to this dilemma is easy believism, say a few words, believe the concepts, and you are
locked in eternally. To support this, no matter your lack of fruit or lack of faith, you are saved. Add
a little further, how can you sin while being forgiven, all sins are forgiven except unbelief in Jesus.

But even here it falls down. If you believe at some point, unbelief in Jesus does not count.
The film "Total recall" summarises this view of spiritual life. You can be made into a different person
with different morals and outlook with a memory replacement. The faith that God can make a
sinner a saint at the end, is taking the point of faith, and applying it as if they had died then, not
many years later, in unbelief. But this is the opposite of scripture. We need to be blameless to the end.

8 He will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 1

 

[FollowHisSteps]

God is asking us a question, who are you?
He is declaring who He is, what He is prepared to do, but are we prepared to take His way, His Life,
His truth on?

Jesus is asking an unbelievably difficult question, because our eternity rests on our response.

Some believe Jesus just wants relabelled sinners. Ask the question what happens to the innocent,
those under age without the ability to be morally responsible? The answer is heaven.

So it is better to never attain moral responsibility in this view, because one is automatically safe.
Paul was so concerned about this issue, he said the child inherits holiness through the believing
parent, or else they are doomed to destruction.

So ones divide is either judgement, or universalism diluted.

The easy believists, will not stand before the Father but the seat of Christ. Rewards will be lost
for the wrong words, actions, sins etc. but never rejection. Those who claim scripture says otherwise
are of satan.

Paul said this though about all of us

10 For we will all stand before God's judgement seat......
12 So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
Rom 14

13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before
the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
Heb 4

36 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgement for every careless word they have spoken.
37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."
Matt 12

10 For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ, that each one may receive what
is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
2 Cor 5

God is the same eternally. In Eze 18:26

26 If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin, he will die for it;
because of the sin he has committed he will die.
27 But if a wicked man turns away from the wickedness he has committed and does
what is just and right, he will save his life.
Eze 18

God deals with man in the present moment, not based on their history. No faith, no
promises.

 

[Melach]

Remember we are only saved once and Hebrews 6:4-6 tells us there is no coming back.

Hebrews 6:4-6 - It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

We don't mess with God and worship him one minute and false gods the next like the Israelites did.

do you believe that if i become a hindu today that i can never return to Jesus? its over forever?

 

[FollowHisSteps]

5 I will never leave you and I will never abandon you
Heb 3

The above is a promise, quoted by some as a commitment to Gods people despite how
they behave.
The verses prior to this quote, is because the Lord will not leave us, we must honour Him
in our behaviour, or else He will leave us, as He has always in times past when His people
abandon the ways of God.

So the promise is to His faithful, Holy people, not to sinners who are slaves to sin, and
at some point may have had some kind of faith, which has now passed.

 

[cv5]

do you believe that if i become a hindu today that i can never return to Jesus? its over forever?

Nodody "becomes" a hindu, because there has been no transformation....you have not changed one whit.

 

[PS]

do you believe that if i become a hindu today that i can never return to Jesus? its over forever?

That is what I believe.

 

[theanointedwinner]

Not by effort ... Saved !!!

 

[theanointedwinner]

osas may well be true, from a certain perspective.

But who are the saved, and what is this point of salvation?
And if one falls away to the point of denying ones faith, were these people ever saved?

A preacher who believes in the elect, was asked if you doubted ones own election is there security?
Their answer was probably not.

The answer to this dilemma is easy believism, say a few words, believe the concepts, and you are
locked in eternally. To support this, no matter your lack of fruit or lack of faith, you are saved. Add
a little further, how can you sin while being forgiven, all sins are forgiven except unbelief in Jesus.

But even here it falls down. If you believe at some point, unbelief in Jesus does not count.
The film "Total recall" summarises this view of spiritual life. You can be made into a different person
with different morals and outlook with a memory replacement. The faith that God can make a
sinner a saint at the end, is taking the point of faith, and applying it as if they had died then, not
many years later, in unbelief. But this is the opposite of scripture. We need to be blameless to the end.

8 He will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 1

Are you saying, just because we believe that salvation = Jesus, doesn't mean that everyone believes the same?

And thank you for 1 Cor 1:8 as assurance

For the truly saved, there is no such thing as too much assurance

And I wish more people can post like you do with calm balanced intelligence

(Ie: may well be true, from a certain perspective.)

Or at least, make the one debating with you feel respected

 

[theanointedwinner]

God is asking us a question, who are you?
He is declaring who He is, what He is prepared to do, but are we prepared to take His way, His Life,
His truth on?

Jesus is asking an unbelievably difficult question, because our eternity rests on our response.

Some believe Jesus just wants relabelled sinners. Ask the question what happens to the innocent,
those under age without the ability to be morally responsible? The answer is heaven.

So it is better to never attain moral responsibility in this view, because one is automatically safe.
Paul was so concerned about this issue, he said the child inherits holiness through the believing
parent, or else they are doomed to destruction.

So ones divide is either judgement, or universalism diluted.

The easy believists, will not stand before the Father but the seat of Christ. Rewards will be lost
for the wrong words, actions, sins etc. but never rejection. Those who claim scripture says otherwise
are of satan.

Paul said this though about all of us

10 For we will all stand before God's judgement seat......
12 So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
Rom 14

13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before
the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
Heb 4

36 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgement for every careless word they have spoken.
37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."
Matt 12

10 For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ, that each one may receive what
is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
2 Cor 5

God is the same eternally. In Eze 18:26

26 If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin, he will die for it;
because of the sin he has committed he will die.
27 But if a wicked man turns away from the wickedness he has committed and does
what is just and right, he will save his life.
Eze 18

God deals with man in the present moment, not based on their history. No faith, no
promises.

Where was that insight where you stated that believers think that heart is only rebellious but deep down, heart wants opposite of rebellion and wants God, the insight that I comment as "I have faith in the potential of that insight" ... Seems like I'll be rewarded for my faith, similar to Hebrews 11:6, and when I commented about your insight yesterday, it's similar to Hebrews 11:1 - faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen

 

[Budman]

A person with as little knowledge of the Bible as you have would think that. Why, you even think one can be a slave to sin and a slave to righteousness at the same time. I guess you never read "no one can serve two masters" did you.

Then stop sinning.

 

[Budman]

And I already know your next ill advised response. You will say that Paul says "I serve sin in my flesh and with the mind righteousness, because you will ignore the fact that in the very next chapter, he makes it clear that we need to choose one and we cannot be servants to both. But Bud doesnt know this.

Then stop sinning.

 

[Budman]

You need to stop basing your theology on personal experience and base it on the Bible. The Bible says we are not slaves to sin.

Then stop your constant sinning.

 

[theanointedwinner]

Mr. budman, we are not a light switch