Faith/Works...How much faith? How much works?
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I never said any such thing. I said, along with the Apostle John that we will live a certain way IF we are Christians, not TO BE Christians.
Do you see the difference between what you said I said and what I actually said? If you don't, you need a refresher in reading comprehension.
Do you want some verses from John that tell we WILL live a certain way IF we are Christians>
Do you see the difference between what you said I said and what I actually said? If you don't, you need a refresher in reading comprehension.
Do you want some verses from John that tell we WILL live a certain way IF we are Christians>
I think this is more aligned with Lordship Salvation teaching
1 Corinthians 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
It's not that I received Jesus as Saviour and Lord, it's that WHEN I received Jesus, I became his doulos, because I was bought from the slavery of sin to become a slave to HIM.
Yes, we have been set free from the Law. That is why we are no longer slaves to sin. Remember you kept bringing up Romans 7? What did sin use to keep Paul in bondage?
Romans 7:5- For when we lived according to the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, bearing fruit for death.
Romans 7:8- But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Romans 7:11- For sin, seizing its opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through the commandment put me to death.
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Dying to the Law through the Body of Christ, sets us free from sin.
Therefore, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God.
Perhaps we sin to the extent that we inadvertantly and unknowingly put ourselves back under the Law somehow, but WE ARE NO LONGER SLAVES TO SIN.
Romans 7:5- For when we lived according to the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, bearing fruit for death.
Romans 7:8- But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Romans 7:11- For sin, seizing its opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through the commandment put me to death.
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Dying to the Law through the Body of Christ, sets us free from sin.
Therefore, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God.
Perhaps we sin to the extent that we inadvertantly and unknowingly put ourselves back under the Law somehow, but WE ARE NO LONGER SLAVES TO SIN.
Do you base your theology on scripture or personal experience?
The more we base our theology on scripture, the more our personal experience will gradually and increasingly line up with the Bible.
When we base our theology on personal experience, we begin to interpret scripture through the lens of our personal experience, AS YOU ARE DOING. And in that case, we will remain slaves. But if we allow the Bible to shape our experience, we will be no slaves to sin, and increasingly we will see that truth worked out in our lives.
Romans 6:18- Being then made free from sin, ye became the servantsof righteousness.
Romans 8:2- For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
The more we base our theology on scripture, the more our personal experience will gradually and increasingly line up with the Bible.
When we base our theology on personal experience, we begin to interpret scripture through the lens of our personal experience, AS YOU ARE DOING. And in that case, we will remain slaves. But if we allow the Bible to shape our experience, we will be no slaves to sin, and increasingly we will see that truth worked out in our lives.
Romans 6:18- Being then made free from sin, ye became the servantsof righteousness.
Romans 8:2- For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Do you base your theology on scripture or personal experience?
The more we base our theology on scripture, the more our personal experience will gradually and increasingly line up with the Bible.
When we base our theology on personal experience, we begin to interpret scripture through the lens of our personal experience, AS YOU ARE DOING. And in that case, we will remain slaves. But if we allow the Bible to shape our experience, we will be no slaves to sin, and increasingly we will see that freedom worked out in our lives.
Romans 6:18- Being then made free from sin, ye became the servantsof righteousness.
Romans 8:2- For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Colossians 3:5- Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Romans 8:13- For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
The more we base our theology on scripture, the more our personal experience will gradually and increasingly line up with the Bible.
When we base our theology on personal experience, we begin to interpret scripture through the lens of our personal experience, AS YOU ARE DOING. And in that case, we will remain slaves. But if we allow the Bible to shape our experience, we will be no slaves to sin, and increasingly we will see that freedom worked out in our lives.
Romans 6:18- Being then made free from sin, ye became the servantsof righteousness.
Romans 8:2- For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Colossians 3:5- Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Romans 8:13- For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
I never said we must or will live a certain way to be a Christian. I said we will live a certain way if WE ARE a Christian.
Scriptural basis...
1 John 1:6- If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1 John 2:3-4 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:15- Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1 John 2:29- If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
1 John 3:3- And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
1 John 3:10- In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1 John 3:14- We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not hisbrother abideth in death.
1 John 3:18-19-My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
1 John 4:17- Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
1 John 4:20- If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
Etcetera
Scriptural basis...
1 John 1:6- If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1 John 2:3-4 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:15- Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1 John 2:29- If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
1 John 3:3- And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
1 John 3:10- In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1 John 3:14- We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not hisbrother abideth in death.
1 John 3:18-19-My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
1 John 4:17- Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
1 John 4:20- If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
Etcetera
Budman, if you want to debate this...let's set up a new thread with a debate. Might be fun.
Neutral moderator.
1. Budman- argue in favor of "Christians are slaves to sin" 1 post (15 minute time limit)
2. Macabeus- argue against "Christians are slaves to sin. "1 post (15 minute time limit)
3. Budman- rebuttal of Macabeus argument (10 minute time limit)
4. Macabeus- Rebuttal of Budman (10 minute time limit)
5. Budman cross examines Macabeus- (7 questions) (15 minutes)
6. Macabeus cross examines Budman (7 questions) (15 minutes)
7. Budman- closing argument (10 minutes)
8 Macabeus- Closing argument. (10 Minutes)
One hour and forty minutes. In one shot.
Let's agree on a date and a time, if you want.
Maybe someone could agree to moderate. Must be neutral, not a buddy like DC.
Moderator will keep time. If we go over our time, must delete everything that we typed beyond time limit. Moderator will keep track.
Neutral moderator.
1. Budman- argue in favor of "Christians are slaves to sin" 1 post (15 minute time limit)
2. Macabeus- argue against "Christians are slaves to sin. "1 post (15 minute time limit)
3. Budman- rebuttal of Macabeus argument (10 minute time limit)
4. Macabeus- Rebuttal of Budman (10 minute time limit)
5. Budman cross examines Macabeus- (7 questions) (15 minutes)
6. Macabeus cross examines Budman (7 questions) (15 minutes)
7. Budman- closing argument (10 minutes)
8 Macabeus- Closing argument. (10 Minutes)
One hour and forty minutes. In one shot.
Let's agree on a date and a time, if you want.
Maybe someone could agree to moderate. Must be neutral, not a buddy like DC.
Moderator will keep time. If we go over our time, must delete everything that we typed beyond time limit. Moderator will keep track.
It would be better if we just laid it all out in one shot in a debate than to keep playing message tag hours after the other responded.
Or we could do a point a day. limited to only one point a day. No limit on number of posts during that day, but no replies until the next day. Debate format
1. day 1-Budman- argue in favor of "Christians are slaves to sin" 1 post (15 minute time limit)
2. day 2-Macabeus- argue against "Christians are slaves to sin. "1 post (15 minute time limit)
3. day 3- Budman- rebuttal of Macabeus argument (10 minute time limit)
4. day 4- Macabeus- Rebuttal of Budman (10 minute time limit)
5. Cross examinations- 7 questions each.
7.day 5 Budman- closing argument (10 minutes)
8 day 6- Macabeus- Closing argument. (10 Minutes)
Or we could do a point a day. limited to only one point a day. No limit on number of posts during that day, but no replies until the next day. Debate format
1. day 1-Budman- argue in favor of "Christians are slaves to sin" 1 post (15 minute time limit)
2. day 2-Macabeus- argue against "Christians are slaves to sin. "1 post (15 minute time limit)
3. day 3- Budman- rebuttal of Macabeus argument (10 minute time limit)
4. day 4- Macabeus- Rebuttal of Budman (10 minute time limit)
5. Cross examinations- 7 questions each.
7.day 5 Budman- closing argument (10 minutes)
8 day 6- Macabeus- Closing argument. (10 Minutes)
edit
1. day 1-Budman- argue in favor of "Christians are slaves to sin"
2. day 2-Macabeus- argue against "Christians are slaves to sin.
3. day 3- Budman- rebuttal of Macabeus argument
4. day 4- Macabeus- Rebuttal of Budman
5. Cross examinations- 7 questions each.
7.day 5 Budman- closing argument
8 day 6- Macabeus- Closing argument
1. day 1-Budman- argue in favor of "Christians are slaves to sin"
2. day 2-Macabeus- argue against "Christians are slaves to sin.
3. day 3- Budman- rebuttal of Macabeus argument
4. day 4- Macabeus- Rebuttal of Budman
5. Cross examinations- 7 questions each.
7.day 5 Budman- closing argument
8 day 6- Macabeus- Closing argument
By the way, this is not an accurate definition of a judaizer and it is not an accurate definition of me.
You just don't know the difference between the following two statements (comprehension)
a person must or will live a certain way TO BE a Christian
and
a person will live a certain way IF they are a Christian
It takes an elementary understanding of the difference between something that is PRESCRIPTIVE vs something that is DESCRIPTIVE.
A distinction that many here do not seem to understand.
That would define the statement "a christian must live a certain way TO BE a Christian
that would define the statement " a person will live a certain way IF they are a Christian.
By the way, if you don't know the difference, it will JACK UP your interpretation of the bible, which explains the rampant BAD THEOLOGY with some around here.
You just don't know the difference between the following two statements (comprehension)
a person must or will live a certain way TO BE a Christian
and
a person will live a certain way IF they are a Christian
It takes an elementary understanding of the difference between something that is PRESCRIPTIVE vs something that is DESCRIPTIVE.
A distinction that many here do not seem to understand.
That would define the statement "a christian must live a certain way TO BE a Christian
that would define the statement " a person will live a certain way IF they are a Christian.
By the way, if you don't know the difference, it will JACK UP your interpretation of the bible, which explains the rampant BAD THEOLOGY with some around here.
Yep, and antinomians will say that if you teach this verse, you are putting an additional condition on salvation. Because they don't know the difference between a prescriptive statement and a descriptive statement.
Galatians 5:24 is a descriptive statement.
So are all of these. They are all DESCRIPTIVE statements.
1 John 2:29- If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
1 John 3:3- And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
1 John 3:10- In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1 John 3:14- We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth nothisbrother abideth in death.
The antinomians need to learn the difference between "descriptive" statements and "prescriptive statements" before they can even be able to begin to understand the Bible.
Galatians 5:24 is a descriptive statement.
So are all of these. They are all DESCRIPTIVE statements.
1 John 2:29- If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
1 John 3:3- And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
1 John 3:10- In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1 John 3:14- We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth nothisbrother abideth in death.
The antinomians need to learn the difference between "descriptive" statements and "prescriptive statements" before they can even be able to begin to understand the Bible.
No, actually that would be a PRESCRIPTIVE statement.
I made a DESCRIPTIVE statement.
One must walk in obedience to be saved. (prescriptive- and something I never said)
One who is saved will walk in obedience. (Descriptive- one that both I and the apostle John said.)
1 John 2:3-4And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Did I call you sharks or did I make a DESCRIPTIVE statement about this place being like a shark tank?
And the difference is, my accusation was true. (like John Baptist calling people "brood of vipers" . Your accusation about me being a Judaizer was false, as I have shown and will show again
Judaizer- , "Judaizers" refers to Jewish Christians who sought to induce Gentiles to observe Jewish religious customs: to "judaize." It appears that these individuals agreed with much of the apostolic kerygma but sought to regulate the admission of Gentiles into the covenant people of God through circumcision and the keeping of the ceremonial law. Insisting that "Unless you are circumcised … you cannot be saved" ( Acts15:1 ), these "believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees" ( Acts 15:5 ) posed a serious threat to the gospel of grace and the uNIVersality of the Christian mission.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/judaizers/
And the difference is, my accusation was true. (like John Baptist calling people "brood of vipers" . Your accusation about me being a Judaizer was false, as I have shown and will show again
Judaizer- , "Judaizers" refers to Jewish Christians who sought to induce Gentiles to observe Jewish religious customs: to "judaize." It appears that these individuals agreed with much of the apostolic kerygma but sought to regulate the admission of Gentiles into the covenant people of God through circumcision and the keeping of the ceremonial law. Insisting that "Unless you are circumcised … you cannot be saved" ( Acts15:1 ), these "believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees" ( Acts 15:5 ) posed a serious threat to the gospel of grace and the uNIVersality of the Christian mission.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/judaizers/