My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?
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You got the reason in the last clause. The Bible says that Christ (who knew no sin) was made SIN for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him. While the Father was judging the sin of the world in and through Christ, He was pouring out His wrath against sin. And that would be the equivalent of the second death -- eternal separation from God.
But since Christ is God, three dark hours on the cross were the equivalent of eternal death. And since He paid the full penalty for the sins of the whole world, He could proclaim victoriously "It is finished!" with a loud voice.
This is why the Calvinistic doctrine of Limited Atonement makes a mockery of the finished work of Christ for all humanity. The "sin of the world" literally means "the sin of the world" not "the sin of the elect".
Also, there are some false preachers who claim that Christ literally went to Hell (Gehenna, the Lake of Fire) for three day and three nights after He cried "It is finished". That is not only absurd, but fails to see that Christ went to Sheol/Hades to proclaim His victory to the spirits in prison.
But since Christ is God, three dark hours on the cross were the equivalent of eternal death. And since He paid the full penalty for the sins of the whole world, He could proclaim victoriously "It is finished!" with a loud voice.
This is why the Calvinistic doctrine of Limited Atonement makes a mockery of the finished work of Christ for all humanity. The "sin of the world" literally means "the sin of the world" not "the sin of the elect".
Also, there are some false preachers who claim that Christ literally went to Hell (Gehenna, the Lake of Fire) for three day and three nights after He cried "It is finished". That is not only absurd, but fails to see that Christ went to Sheol/Hades to proclaim His victory to the spirits in prison.
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in the Jewish culture, when a Rabbi would quote a scripture, he would only quote a small portion of it,
and the readers were expected to know the rest of the 'context', which most of them did, because,
they went to synagogue every Sabbath - plus, they obviously didn't have as many distractions
as we do today...
so, as implied in the above POST, if you read all of PS. 22, you will perceive that
it is a statement of VICTORY and a FULFILLMENT of Prophecy...
and the readers were expected to know the rest of the 'context', which most of them did, because,
they went to synagogue every Sabbath - plus, they obviously didn't have as many distractions
as we do today...
so, as implied in the above POST, if you read all of PS. 22, you will perceive that
it is a statement of VICTORY and a FULFILLMENT of Prophecy...
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Psalm 22 is not about David being hunted by Saul. It is a Messianic Psalm about the sufferings of the Messiah and Savior Jesus Christ .
Jesus repeated in Aramaic exactly what is stated in Psalm 22:1. And the word "forsaken" [Hebrew azabtani (or azavtani) which is sabachthani in Aramaic] means exactly what it says -- forsaken, abandoned, deserted.
So this was a prophecy of the unimaginable sufferings of Christ on the cross, given by the Holy Spirit to David about 1,000 years before it was fulfilled. The rest of the Psalm has direct application to Christ also.
Jesus repeated in Aramaic exactly what is stated in Psalm 22:1. And the word "forsaken" [Hebrew azabtani (or azavtani) which is sabachthani in Aramaic] means exactly what it says -- forsaken, abandoned, deserted.
So this was a prophecy of the unimaginable sufferings of Christ on the cross, given by the Holy Spirit to David about 1,000 years before it was fulfilled. The rest of the Psalm has direct application to Christ also.
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Please read all of Psalm 22 and tell me if God forsook King David when he was being hunted down by Saul? Also, if you want the short version please read Isaiah 53:3 and John 16:32. 
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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I suggest you pay attention to what people write. I never said the Psalm was about David being hunted down by Saul. Here is what I said: "Please read all of Psalm 22 and tell me if God forsook King David when he was being hunted down by Saul?"
So nehemiah6, here's the question? Did God forsake David "while" he was being hunted down by Saul?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
So nehemiah6, here's the question? Did God forsake David "while" he was being hunted down by Saul?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Psalm 22:24
For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
Luke 23:46
Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last.
For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
Luke 23:46
Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last.
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Psalm 22 has everything to do with the opening post. It was David who said vs1 in the first place but of course you don't know why. Again, David was being hunted down by Saul which is why he said at vs11, "Be not far from me, for trouble is near; For there is none to help."
Vs12, "Many bulls have surrounded me; strong bulls of Bashan have encircled me. vs13, They open wide their mouth at me, As a ravening and roaring lion. Vs14, I am poured out like water, And all my bones are out of joint. My heart is like wax; it is melted within me."
Jumping down to vs19, "But Thou O Lord, be not far off; O Thou my help, hasten to my assistance. Vs20 Deliver my soul from the sword, My only life from the power of the dog." Now, look what David says starting at v22-23. Then what he says at vs24, "For He/God HAS NOT DESPISED nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; Neither has He hidden His face from him; But when he cried to Him for help, He heard." At vs25 again David prasies the Lord for not forsaking him.
You see nehemiah6, the Lord God did not forsake David nor did God forsake His only begotten Son on that cross. The disciples forsook Jesus but not His Father. This is why I brought up John 16:32 where Jesus already knew they would run to their own houses. And this is why at 2 Corinthains 5:19 says, "namely, that GOD WAS IN CHRIST RECONCILLING THE WORLD TO HIMSELF."
You glossed over this verse but were quick to quot 2 Corinthians 5:21, "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf." What does that mean to you? Explain it to all of us here. You see, Jesus was not forsaken by His Father just like God did not forsake King David. David and Jesus both "felt" they were forsaken.
Have you ever been in a situation and ask God in your heart, "please get me out of this mess?" I have been, many times when I was in Vietnam is January of 1968 during the Tet offensive. Do you have any idea of how many times (I) we soldiers were inches away from death crying out to the Lord to deliver us? And guess what, here I am writing this to you and your telling me I'm off topic. Be thankful you even wake up in the morning and have the honor of telling others about Jesus Christ.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Vs12, "Many bulls have surrounded me; strong bulls of Bashan have encircled me. vs13, They open wide their mouth at me, As a ravening and roaring lion. Vs14, I am poured out like water, And all my bones are out of joint. My heart is like wax; it is melted within me."
Jumping down to vs19, "But Thou O Lord, be not far off; O Thou my help, hasten to my assistance. Vs20 Deliver my soul from the sword, My only life from the power of the dog." Now, look what David says starting at v22-23. Then what he says at vs24, "For He/God HAS NOT DESPISED nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; Neither has He hidden His face from him; But when he cried to Him for help, He heard." At vs25 again David prasies the Lord for not forsaking him.
You see nehemiah6, the Lord God did not forsake David nor did God forsake His only begotten Son on that cross. The disciples forsook Jesus but not His Father. This is why I brought up John 16:32 where Jesus already knew they would run to their own houses. And this is why at 2 Corinthains 5:19 says, "namely, that GOD WAS IN CHRIST RECONCILLING THE WORLD TO HIMSELF."
You glossed over this verse but were quick to quot 2 Corinthians 5:21, "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf." What does that mean to you? Explain it to all of us here. You see, Jesus was not forsaken by His Father just like God did not forsake King David. David and Jesus both "felt" they were forsaken.
Have you ever been in a situation and ask God in your heart, "please get me out of this mess?" I have been, many times when I was in Vietnam is January of 1968 during the Tet offensive. Do you have any idea of how many times (I) we soldiers were inches away from death crying out to the Lord to deliver us? And guess what, here I am writing this to you and your telling me I'm off topic. Be thankful you even wake up in the morning and have the honor of telling others about Jesus Christ.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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It is Israel who thought themselves forsaken.
Think, what is Christ doing on the cross? He is taking your place. He is speaking as you: when you think yourself forsaken by God. But does God forsake you? Even at that very moment, there is God Himself, in the form of flesh, doing exactly the opposite of forsaking you!
Christ is not any more forsaken than He forsakes you. He is God and cannot deny Himself.
Think, what is Christ doing on the cross? He is taking your place. He is speaking as you: when you think yourself forsaken by God. But does God forsake you? Even at that very moment, there is God Himself, in the form of flesh, doing exactly the opposite of forsaking you!
Christ is not any more forsaken than He forsakes you. He is God and cannot deny Himself.
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If Jesus was forsaken and our salvation is by being found in Him then we are also forsaken in Him.
He was neither forsaken nor was He confused and delerious. As oldthennew said, He sings the first bar of a song in a loud voice. He expects us to know the rest of it. In the song, called the hind of the morning, the hind is distraught but is not actually forsaken. The hind is Israel. The song is a duet; it is not all about Christ but about His relationship with His people, of whom He is their Savior.
A Savior does not forsake! Despite their rejection and persecution of Him, He is on the cross redeeming our sin.
He is not doing this for us to feel sorry for Him, and He was not unaware of what He came to do in the least.
He was neither forsaken nor was He confused and delerious. As oldthennew said, He sings the first bar of a song in a loud voice. He expects us to know the rest of it. In the song, called the hind of the morning, the hind is distraught but is not actually forsaken. The hind is Israel. The song is a duet; it is not all about Christ but about His relationship with His people, of whom He is their Savior.
A Savior does not forsake! Despite their rejection and persecution of Him, He is on the cross redeeming our sin.
He is not doing this for us to feel sorry for Him, and He was not unaware of what He came to do in the least.
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Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, conceived by the Spirit, and was always led by the Spirit, and could not sin for the man Christ Jesus is the personal human body of God, which God glorified that body which is His visible relationship to the saints forever.
So on earth Jesus could speak either as God, or as a man, for Jesus is God, and man.
He spoke as a man when He told Mary, go tell the disciples that ascend I unto My God, and your God, and My Father, and your Father.
And a man called the man Christ Jesus good, and He said why call Me good, for there is only one good, and that is God.
He prayed as a man when He prayed to the Father for the saints to have the same glory as Him, and behold His glory, which is to receive a glorified body, and eternal life, and to behold the man Christ Jesus as He sits upon the throne in heaven, which is the throne of God and the Lamb, and God shines out of the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus and lights the New Jerusalem.
Jesus is sinless even when the sins of the world were placed upon Him.
Jesus said the Father will never leave Him.
There was no reason for the Father to leave Jesus, and He is God manifest in the flesh, and the man Christ Jesus the personal human body of God, so why would the Father abandon Jesus.
So when the sins of the world were placed upon Jesus He must of felt what it was like being separated from God for a short time, so He said My God why did you forsake Me, but the Father never left Him.
It could not be because He was on the cross, for He knew it had to be done, and said not My will, but thy will be done concerning the cross, and knew He would be raised 3 days later, and told the thief He would be with Him that day in paradise.
So it must of been how Jesus felt when the sins of the world were placed on Him, and He lost His connection with God in the case of feeling Him, but the Father never left Him, and never turned His back.
For Jesus said the disciples will flee, and leave Him, but the Father will never leave Him.
Jesus is sinless even when the sins of the world was placed on Him, so there is no reason for the Father to leave Him.
So on earth Jesus could speak either as God, or as a man, for Jesus is God, and man.
He spoke as a man when He told Mary, go tell the disciples that ascend I unto My God, and your God, and My Father, and your Father.
And a man called the man Christ Jesus good, and He said why call Me good, for there is only one good, and that is God.
He prayed as a man when He prayed to the Father for the saints to have the same glory as Him, and behold His glory, which is to receive a glorified body, and eternal life, and to behold the man Christ Jesus as He sits upon the throne in heaven, which is the throne of God and the Lamb, and God shines out of the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus and lights the New Jerusalem.
Jesus is sinless even when the sins of the world were placed upon Him.
Jesus said the Father will never leave Him.
There was no reason for the Father to leave Jesus, and He is God manifest in the flesh, and the man Christ Jesus the personal human body of God, so why would the Father abandon Jesus.
So when the sins of the world were placed upon Jesus He must of felt what it was like being separated from God for a short time, so He said My God why did you forsake Me, but the Father never left Him.
It could not be because He was on the cross, for He knew it had to be done, and said not My will, but thy will be done concerning the cross, and knew He would be raised 3 days later, and told the thief He would be with Him that day in paradise.
So it must of been how Jesus felt when the sins of the world were placed on Him, and He lost His connection with God in the case of feeling Him, but the Father never left Him, and never turned His back.
For Jesus said the disciples will flee, and leave Him, but the Father will never leave Him.
Jesus is sinless even when the sins of the world was placed on Him, so there is no reason for the Father to leave Him.
i want to say, i've listened to about 20 of sermonaudio's teachings on this chapter so far, and only one man have i heard that got it right, and one other who started his sermon getting it right, but then went on for the second half to contradict everything he said in the beginning and get it all wrong. that's thus far, ~ 95% of the preaching on this, nonsense.
i have honestly been pretty glum over that for several weeks, but seeing several people here in this thread holding onto the truth - in far greater percentage than the preachers i've been listening to for a month - has greatly encouraged my heart
i thank God
♥
i have honestly been pretty glum over that for several weeks, but seeing several people here in this thread holding onto the truth - in far greater percentage than the preachers i've been listening to for a month - has greatly encouraged my heart
i thank God
♥
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so Jesus didn't know what was going on?
He was ignorant? confused? wrong?
Jesus - THE TRUTH - Who knows all things - had lost all touch with reality, suddenly and unexpectedly thinking He was forsaken but He wasn't really? there's the Alpha and Omega on the cross, deceived and at sea, oh let's pity Him??
but you said yourself:
did Jesus lack understanding, that He had to ask "why" ???
there is a giant hole in this ((astoundingly common)) line of reasoning, that you ought to seek the reconciliation of.
He was ignorant? confused? wrong?
Jesus - THE TRUTH - Who knows all things - had lost all touch with reality, suddenly and unexpectedly thinking He was forsaken but He wasn't really? there's the Alpha and Omega on the cross, deceived and at sea, oh let's pity Him??
but you said yourself:
did Jesus lack understanding, that He had to ask "why" ???
there is a giant hole in this ((astoundingly common)) line of reasoning, that you ought to seek the reconciliation of.
He took our sinful nature, which we inherited from Adam, and we took his righteousness.
So for a moment at that cross, yes, he was SIN, even though he did no sin and knew no sin.
That was why he was forsaken by the Father for the first time at the cross, until he could not even say "Father", he had to say "My God"
So for a moment at that cross, yes, he was SIN, even though he did no sin and knew no sin.
That was why he was forsaken by the Father for the first time at the cross, until he could not even say "Father", he had to say "My God"