Amillennialists...Here's a chance to state your case.

TheDivineWatermark · May 6, 2019

Correct.

But the CONTEXT of Matthew 25:31-34 is "when the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, THEN shall he sit upon the throne of his glory [this is his earthly-located throne, in the "reign... GLORIOUSLY" aspect of the earthly-DOTL time period as the MK age commences]: And before him shall be gathered all the nations [Sheep AND GOATS are NOT "UP IN Heaven"!; "nations" exist on the earth!]: and he shall separate them one from another..." [this context is NOT a rapture nor a resurrection; it is earthly-located; its his telling who will enter the MK age (i.e. the wedding FEAST/SUPPER; aka 'the kingdom of the heavens' ON THE EARTH) and who will not, at the time of His Second Coming to the earth (at His "RETURN"--and at His "RETURN" to the earth, He will be "ALREADY-WED"!) Lk12:36-37,38,40... "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal! (G347)/Mt8:11, etc...]

TheDivineWatermark · May 6, 2019

I agree with those saying Paul was a TYPE of the [future] 144,000... there's a study out there somewhere that I read many years ago (doubt I could locate it now) that shows all the points of similarity. But here's a quote with which I can [fairly] agree:

[Gaebelein on 1Cor15:5-8 and "Paul"]

"Last of all he was seen by the Apostle Paul on the road to Damascus, where as the blind persecutor of the church, the chief of sinners, He beheld Him in the glory light. He was like one born out of due season. He was an untimely birth. He was in his experience a type of the nation to which he belonged. As he saw Christ in glory so will the remnant of Israel behold Him at the time of His second coming. [I believe they will come to faith BEFORE His return to the earth! and that this is to what Heb9:28 refers] He was therefore a firstfruit of the nation.

"(The correct meaning of the Greek word “ektroma” seems to point to a child born from a dead mother, by what is called the Caesarian operation. The dead Jewish system gave birth to the chosen vessel who was to become what Israel should have been, and yet will be, when the mystery of the present dispensation is complete.--Romans 11:25-27)."

--Gaebelein, Commentary on 1Cor15 [source: Bible Hub; bold and underline mine, bracketed insert mine; parenthesis original]

TheDivineWatermark · May 6, 2019

garee said:

Hebrews 9:8-9 says (in part):

"8 By this the Holy Spirit was signifying that the way into the holy places has not yet been made manifest, the first tabernacle still having a standing [stasin - G4714 (stasis--' from the base of histemi' and related to the words 'apo stasia' [a standing away (from a previous standing)])], 9 which is a symbol ['parable'] for the present time, [...]"

meaning, a parable for the present time.

And the context referring to the "tabernacle" (like Hebrews chpts 3-4 were talking about; see Heb3:2,4).

And compare this with what Paul says in 2Cor5 ['tabernacle'] (especially in v.4 about "so that MORTALITY might be swallowed up OF LIFE" when we will be "CLOTHED UPON" [<--THIS part referring to what will be occcurring at our Rapture, for those of us who are the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto" ['THIS mortal' must put on immortality] before we are "caught up together [AS ONE] with the DEAD IN Christ ['THIS corruptible' must put on incorruption] who shall "rise first" just before "our Rapture")

TheDivineWatermark · May 6, 2019

[continuation of previous post]

Wm Kelly on Hebrews 9:8-9 -

"for the tabernacle in the wilderness is before the writer, not the temple: so we saw in Heb. 3, 4, and so it is here and throughout. This is evident in the early verses of the chapter, summed up in "these things having been thus formed" or prepared, not only the tabernacle but its furniture; which differed in some essential respects from the temple, for it was the figure of the millennial kingdom and rest, as the tabernacle is of the resources of grace in Christ for the wilderness and its pilgrimage [i.e. "the Church which is His body" in this present age]. Hence the ark when set in the temple had neither the golden pot with manna therein nor Aaron's rod that budded (2 Chronicles 5:10), which we find carefully named in verse 4. With such wisdom markedly divine was the scripture inspired in the O.T. as in the N.T."

--William Kelly, Commentary on Hebrews 9 [source: Bible Hub; bold and underline mine; bracketed comment mine]

garee · May 6, 2019

Hebrews 9:8-9

Click to expand...

Says what (in part)?

Meaning for the previous time period before the time of Judges . Kings standing in the holy place of God an abomination of desecration .God gave them over temporally to that that which they should not of .They demanded that they walk by sight because of the jealously of the flesh of other nations .They refused to believe in a God not seen .The reformation came . We are restored to the kind of government when there was no kings visible . Again they refused to have a invisible king reign over them . The Holy Spirit informed Samuel. Its not you seen that they reject as King. But me as Kings of kings .They have absolutely no faith by which they could please God .

Amen

[/QUOTE]

eternally-gratefull · May 6, 2019

garee said:

Yes

The temple of God, in fact the WHOLE law was a symbol for the present time

Paul makes the same claim

Gal 3: 19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, [f]kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our [g]tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

However, the abomination of desolation is not found in either of these two passages (yours or mine) and these have nothing to do with prophesy. Which is why it is symbolic. Not prophetic.

Again, You need to learn the difference between the two.

Journeyman · May 6, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

Agreed.

I've said over and over again, that "the kingdom of the heavens" (and this "wedding FEAST/SUPPER" INVITATION") is not referring to "UP IN Heaven"...

and that verses 7 and 8 show a sequence (v.7 about the 70ad events [see Lk21:23,20]; then verse 8 about "THEN SAITH HE to his servants" being what He "SAID AFTER" the 70ad events, i.e. the LATER 95ad "[The] Revelation of Jesus Christ, WHICH GOD GAVE UNTO HIM [unto Jesus], TO SHEW unto His servants [see 7:3 the 144,000 "servants of our God"] things which must come to pass [see 4:1 (&1:19c, the "future" aspects of the Book!)] IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]…" (the correlating verses being Lk18:8[chpt17end] "AVENGE IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (He's not "AVENGING" presently, in "this present age [singular]") and Romans 16:20 "satan under YOUR feet IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (which is not happening presently, "in this present age [singular]") but awaits our translation (at the Rapture) when after that "WE shall JUDGE ANGELS"--not presently!)

But the context and setting of the verse you selected, is the INVITATION to the "wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [i.e. the earthly MK] not "the MARRIAGE" itself (<---THIS is what WE are PRESENTLY asking ppl to be a part of; we are not presently "inviting" ppl to be a part of "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER"... THAT "invitation" will go out during the trib years [and will involve the 144,000 among others DOING that "INVITING" to the "FEAST/SUPPER[earthly MK]"], and YES, anyone who rejects that offer or does not accept that invitation BEFORE His "RETURN" will NOT enter the MK age! but will instead experience the FIRST of the TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23] which parallels TIME-WISE the Revelation 19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 at the END of the Trib, context not being at the BEGINNING of it [and the BEGINNING of it, when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" FOLLOWS our Rapture!])

The marriage is being made one with Christ. That's happening now.

Journeyman · May 6, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

Correct.

But the CONTEXT of Matthew 25:31-34 is "when the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, THEN shall he sit upon the throne of his glory [this is his earthly-located throne, in the "reign... GLORIOUSLY" aspect of the earthly-DOTL time period as the MK age commences]: And before him shall be gathered all the nations [Sheep AND GOATS are NOT "UP IN Heaven"!; "nations" exist on the earth!]: and he shall separate them one from another..." [this context is NOT a rapture nor a resurrection; it is earthly-located; its his telling who will enter the MK age (i.e. the wedding FEAST/SUPPER; aka 'the kingdom of the heavens' ON THE EARTH) and who will not, at the time of His Second Coming to the earth (at His "RETURN"--and at His "RETURN" to the earth, He will be "ALREADY-WED"!) Lk12:36-37,38,40... "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal! (G347)/Mt8:11, etc...]

Jesus already reigned gloriously on earth. See, this is the problem. People look for "when" and ignoring "how".

dcontroversal · May 6, 2019

Journeyman said:

Jesus must not remember or hold to your view....

Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."

TheDivineWatermark · May 7, 2019

Journeyman said:

Read every word of this verse: https://biblehub.com/text/matthew/21-5.htm [and along with this, keep in mind what Peter's point was in Acts 3, re: the SUFFERING "SERVANT" aspects they missed, v.13 and v.26]

...which was Zech9:9 being fulfilled on [what we call] Palm Sunday ['THY KING cometh UNTO THEE' (re: Jerusalem--and recall the prophecy of Dan9:24 pertains to the "[and upon] thy holy city'), the very day Exodus 12:2-3 says Israel would select the "lamb" and examine it for several days till the Passover (sacrifice) later that week (the "shall be cut off and have nothing [or, 'but not for himself']"); [Palm Sunday] the very day that the 69 Weeks was fulfilled, and Jesus said the words He did, in Luke 19:41-44.)
The word "King" is only used 2x in all of the epistles, and they are both "future" tense (1Tim6:15 "which in His times He SHALL SHEW [openly manifest]")… So you are saying that the TWO "PUNISH" words of Isaiah 24:21-23[24] paralleling Revelation 19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 (and separated by the time period described there as "and AFTER MANY DAYS" for the SECOND "PUNISH" word) have already taken place (or at least the first one, Rev19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5?? already?)

Did you see what I'd posted about the "THEN [G1534]" word of 1Cor15:24 ("THEN the end") being a SEQUENCE word only, with no time-element attached? So that it is not saying "THEN immediately the end"...

Journeyman · May 7, 2019

dcontroversal said:

Jesus loved those who hated him. He still does. This is how he reigns over us. Are you waiting for Jesus to begin his reign? Jesus defeated death. You want an encore?

dcontroversal said:

But ours was.

Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son Col.1:13 (This is the "thousand years reign").

dcontroversal said:

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 1Jn.2:16

That's what the ungodly are fighting over.

TheDivineWatermark · May 7, 2019

Journeyman said:

I see it like this:

"For I am jealous as to you [corporate 'you'] with the jealousy of God. For I [Paul] have betrothed you [corporate 'you'] to one husband, to present A PURE[/CHASTE] VIRGIN [SINGULAR] to Christ." 2Cor11:2

A few things to note:

--I believe this is referring to "the Church which is His body" [its existence: Eph1:20-23 WHEN, and not before that point--IOW, John the Baptist was "FRIEND" of the Bridegroom, not the Bride (not part of "the Bride")]

--this was Paul's specifically-assigned task ("to present 'A PURE/CHASTE VIRGIN [SINGULAR]'" that he has "betrothed to one Husband")

--the "10 Virgins" [or even just the "FIVE"] are not who Jesus is MARRYING, they "G3326 - meta - ACCOMPANY" Him into "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" (at the time of His Second Coming to the earth; these never lift off the earth, this is at His "RETURN" to the earth: "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" [as an "ALREADY-WED" Bridegroom "WITH [G4862 (UNIONED-with [see the word in 1Th4:17b--this happened back at the Rapture, already taken place: aorist then])]" His "Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]"]... THEN the meal, Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44; etc)

--the thing that is "currently" going on is the "it-ain't-over-and-finished-till-it's-done-being-done" thing (meaning, this will only be completed at the time of our [corporate 'our' (the 'ONE BODY') Rapture]; after that (after our Rapture), the "guests [plural]" will be being "INVITED" TO the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom, i.e. "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [the MK], which "invitation" is not what is "going out" presently); Rev19:7 is "AORIST" (meaning it's already accomplished, IN HEAVEN, and NOW [@ Rev19] they [as ALREADY-WED by that point] are heading back down to the earth FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom, aka "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER," the very PUBLIC CELEBRATION--only those who accepted the "invitation" [during the trib years] will be granted entrance into the MK age)

--I forget the other thing I was going to point out...

Journeyman · May 7, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

I've read these passages. Since this is the way our King came to us, we better follow his way and rule over our enemies in love and mercy and patience, peace, goodness, the strength of our King.

TheDivineWatermark said:

Jesus didn't come here for personal gain. He owned the universe before he was born on earth.

TheDivineWatermark said:

He already showed he's the Soverign One who only possesses imortality.

And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Col.2:15

TheDivineWatermark said:

We've discussed all these. Will you listen now? I don't want to do 5 passages of scripture at once, because it turns into a marathon. Lets do them one at a time.

Then cometh the end 1Cor.15:24

The end of this world comes when his Kingdom is complete. His kingdom only consists of the faithful. The faithful were previously his enemies,

And{b] you[/b], that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled Col.1:21

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. Rom.5:10

We were subdued by faith. (For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. vs.25) [by faith in him.]

But...The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. vs.26

Death is not destroyed for the unrepentant like it is for believers. Death is done away with for the ungodly another way. And so Paul says,

For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. vs.27

This has a dual meaning, but here, Paul is comparing Jesus, the Son of God, God in the flesh, the Creator of all....to Adam (fallen man). It's manifest that Jesus only appeared like the rest of us. And so,

when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. vs.28

That is, "subdued" by the resurrection. When the redeemed appear glorified, as Christ, then Christ will appear as God. Unbelievers will not survive this.

eternally-gratefull · May 7, 2019

Journeyman said:

No he is not

Thats your problem, We have looked up HOW, and we also looked up what the earth will look like when he reigns

And news flash? We have not seen it yet.

Journeyman · May 7, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

I see it like this:

"For I am jealous as to you [corporate 'you'] with the jealousy of God. For I [Paul] have betrothed you [corporate 'you'] to one husband, to present A PURE[/CHASTE] VIRGIN [SINGULAR] to Christ." 2Cor11:2

A few things to note:

--I believe this is referring to "the Church which is His body" [its existence: Eph1:20-23 WHEN, and not before that point--IOW, John the Baptist was "FRIEND" of the Bridegroom, not the Bride (not part of "the Bride")]

--this was Paul's specifically-assigned task ("to present 'A PURE/CHASTE VIRGIN [SINGULAR]'" that he has "betrothed to one Husband")

--the "10 Virgins" [or even just the "FIVE"] are not who Jesus is MARRYING, they "G3326 - meta - ACCOMPANY" Him into "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" (at the time of His Second Coming to the earth; these never lift off the earth, this is at His "RETURN" to the earth: "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" [as an "ALREADY-WED" Bridegroom "WITH [G4862 (UNIONED-with [see the word in 1Th4:17b--this happened back at the Rapture, already taken place: aorist then])]" His "Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]"]... THEN the meal, Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44; etc)

--the thing that is "currently" going on is the "it-ain't-over-and-finished-till-it's-done-being-done" thing (meaning, this will only be completed at the time of our [corporate 'our' (the 'ONE BODY') Rapture]; after that (after our Rapture), the "guests [plural]" will be being "INVITED" TO the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom, i.e. "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [the MK], which "invitation" is not what is "going out" presently); Rev19:7 is "AORIST" (meaning it's already accomplished, IN HEAVEN, and NOW [@ Rev19] they [as ALREADY-WED by that point] are heading back down to the earth FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom, aka "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER," the very PUBLIC CELEBRATION--only those who accepted the "invitation" [during the trib years] will be granted entrance into the MK age)

--I forget the other thing I was going to point out...

Jesus said,

Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning and ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their Lord, when he will return from the wedding Lk.12:35-36

This was his instruction to the Apostles (the bride in part).

Journeyman · May 7, 2019

eternally-gratefull said:

The news flash is that the Word of God has always ruled, whether humans or demons obey him or not.

eternally-gratefull · May 7, 2019

Journeyman said:

Yes it does

And when the word of God says things will happen. It means it.

Its not up to us to question the word.

dcontroversal · May 7, 2019

Journeyman said:

AGAIN....what you said was false.........and instead of just acknowledging you argue against the truth.....now,....you said....

Journeyman said:
Jesus already reigned gloriously on earth. See, this is the problem. People look for "when" and ignoring "how".

JESUS SAID
Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."

Just get right man......start admitting truth instead of holding to that which is false or man made!!!!

Journeyman · May 7, 2019

eternally-gratefull said:

Yes it does but God says,

my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD Isa.55:8

So when God says,

They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. Isa.11:9

We should understand, although the earth is filled with the knowledge of Jesus, unbelievers aren't in his holy mountain (Heb.12:22).

Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. I do not give it to you as the world does Jn.14:27

eternally-gratefull said:

I'm not questioning him. I believe him.

Journeyman · May 7, 2019

dcontroversal said:

AGAIN....what you said was false.........and instead of just acknowledging you argue against the truth.....now,....you said....

Journeyman said:
Jesus already reigned gloriously on earth. See, this is the problem. People look for "when" and ignoring "how".

JESUS SAID
Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."

Just get right man......start admitting truth instead of holding to that which is false or man made!!!!

What's man made is that once you're dead, you're stay dead. You act like the Jewish leaders and Pontius Pilate defeated Jesus.

Amillennialists...Here's a chance to state your case.

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