why didn't god have angels guarding the tree of knowledge before adam sinned?
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What if you could freely give up your choice to that effect.
It seems he doesn't desire this completely either. Freedom from sin is a choice but defining this "freedom" as well as the limited choice of such a decision is hard to pinpoint. For me it is the difference between a child choosing to eat or not but the choice of whether or not food is placed in front of the child is beyond the child's authority.
Our choices are poorly understood. I think we have choices that are subject to the Lord's choice. It brings to mind the Imago Dei...an image is a pale reflection that hearkens to something "living" but does not live of its own accord. Life can be "read" into it by the creator of said image but whether you live or are dead is subject to the Lord's choice. At the same time you have a certain responsibility but what that is individually is unique.
1 Cor 13:12...mirror dimly. It is relatively unclear in its current form.
All comes down to trust.
Note: Not specifically @you but it brought up the conundrum of choice
That's truethen who is free?
most humans wish impossible things
Who is free? Anyone who is able to choose according to their greatest desire in the moment.
For us, there are often outside influences that affect our choices (to one degree or another), which would include things like someone holding a gun to our head, all the way to something silly like wanting to permanently occupy the Eiffel Tower as our family's home
In both cases, 3rd Party factors would restrict or end our ability to choose "freely".~Deut
I wouldn't say God prevented mankind from knowing the truth, because he used prophets to speak his truth, but Jesus certainly did confirm that truth.
I think it means without the Lord, the devil is mortal.
Hi again Mii, before I comment on the rest of your post, I want to make sure that I understand this, so if you wouldn't mind elaborating a bit, I would definitely appreciate the help
Thanks!
~Deut
I'll be a little more specific after I get off work as I agree elaboration would be useful. Ty for your reply.
God told Adam and Eve that they could eat of any tree in the garden except for the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
That means Adam and Eve could eat from the tree of life, and it would be alright.
Which Adam and Eve probably ate from the tree of life, especially since it was the most important tree in the garden, and Adam and Eve knew what the tree represented, and being in a sinless, innocent state, it was alright to eat of the tree of life.
It would of never entered Adam and Eve's mind to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil unless an outside source tempted them.
So God allowed Satan to tempt Eve, and she told him that they could not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for that is all she knew, and could think.
But then Satan tempted Eve by telling her that if she ate of the tree she would have an elevated position, and be greater than her current position, for he tempted Eve with an alternate reality than what God gave her, and Eve sinned.
Then Eve was the outside source that tempted Adam by showing him she did not die, and Adam sinned.
When they sinned then they did not get to have it good in the garden of Eden, but had to fend for themselves outside of the garden, where all they had to do was dress the garden, but now they had to labor with harsher conditions.
God put them out of the garden, and then he protected the tree of life, lest they eat of it, and live forever, for if they would of eaten of it in their sinful state they would of stayed that way forever, and since Eve is the mother of all living God would not let that happen for then there is no salvation.
Also Adam and Eve knew what the tree represented being the tree of life, and they might of wanted to return to the garden, and eat of the tree of life and reverse the sin that they committed, and put things back to their original state.
When Adam and Eve were put forth from the garden it was not the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that was protected, but it was the tree of life that was protected.
Also God would not protect the tree of the knowledge of good and evil while Adam and Eve were in the garden for God gave them a choice, and that tree was the choice.
And also if God did protect the tree of the knowledge of good and evil while they were in the garden they would of never sinned, and Satan would of never tempted Eve, which God allowed Satan to tempt Eve, so He would of not protected the tree of the knowledge of good and evil while they were in the garden.
It does not make sense for the tree of the knowledge of good and evil to be protected while they were in the garden before they sinned, for then they would not have a choice, which is true love, and Satan would of never tempted Eve for that was the only tree that they could not eat, and God was allowing Satan to tempt Eve.
They could eat of the tree of life all the day long, until they sinned then God had to protect the tree of life.
That's called a Non Sequitur. "That does not follow".
Angels could not guard the hearts of Adam and Eve. But once they disobeyed and were banished, they stood there to bar them from re-entry, and unlawful access to the Tree of Life.
Actually it was more tricky than that. Eve was not present when God gave the covenant instructions to Adam.
She got it 2nd hand from Adam and she added an additional clause, even if you touch the fruit, you will die.
So Satan most likely got her to first touch the fruit, and imagine her surprise when all was still well. Once she realized that, it was much easier for Satan to further tempt her to eat it. All this while, Adam was with her and he just kept quiet.
It is a very subtle way to get the first Adam to disobey God.
Didn't He, though? The term angel is synonymous with the term messenger, and God left the message, "Do not eat from the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, lest ye die,' in Adam's care.
Why? As some an allowance for some sort of tithe, some type gesture of thanksgiving for all the good God had given so freely, at a time when there was no law of tithing...considering the spiritual significance of the number 10 , ie commandments). Although I've only just started thinking about this at the prompt from this intriguing question, I do think there is some relevance to it the more I think about it.
That is exactly what it means when it says God banished man from accessing the tree of life.
That access was granted again when Jesus died and the temple curtain split into two.
Ezekiel 28 speaks of man, not the devil. It also speaks of the garden of Eden and what transpired but with variations from Genesis account. In Ezekiel, Eden is in heaven and we see man getting banished and thrown down to Earth.
It says wickedness was found in the man and how was wickedness found? because man forgot God's statutes.
Ezek 28 can not in any way be speaking of satan. It is not possible that satan was banished from Eden in heaven to be thrown into another Eden on Earth so that he can deceive man, Ezekiel 28 is about man.
God banished him (Adam) not them (Adam and Eve).
Read Ezekiel 28, same story with a different twist. The garden is not a physical garden.
Read your Bible again to avoid making such uninformed remarks and misleading remarks.
Now i have to choose between you and the bible, who is uninformed.
Gen 3: 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side e of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.
The man was driven out, not the woman.
Access is granted by faith in the work of Jesus. Otherwise, even unbelievers would have access and that's not true.
I don't believe when God addresses the serpent in the Genesis account, he's speaking to Adam. I believe angels are a separate order of creation from mankind. Adam wasn't "cast to the earth." He was made from it to begin with. Adam wasn't originally in Eden, or was Eve corrupted by her own beauty (as the cherub in Eze.28 was), but by something she didn't possess. Adam and Eve were put out because they became aware of good and evil, not because they were previously aware of it
Now that you mention it, the Genesis account doesn't say the serpent was in the garden when he tempted Eve.
Jesus commanded demons. Demons petitioned Jesus. Spirits are real and are not the same as men.
then who is free?
most humans wish impossible things
I am getting freeer every day! This is because my will is beginning to line up with His will. I am growing a little bit every day. Future looks very bright from here
What greater wish could there be than wanting to go to Heaven to meet Jesus and my lady and my mom and dad and my cat and ….. thank you Jesus!
I am getting freeer every day! This is because my will is beginning to line up with His will. I am growing a little bit every day. Future looks very bright from here
This sounds to me like a different kind of freedom than one defined by ability to sin
Lets let your cat and my cats get together in hereafter!
If sin hadn't happened; then the Lamb, who earlier was slain from the foundation of the world, would have made a meaningless sacrifice.
He was slain for yet-to-be-created, yet-to-sin people who were going to be created free to obey. And if they're going to be free to obey, then they're going to be free to disobey. If an angel had blocked access to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, Adam and Eve could never have obeyed the command not to eat of it.