Never Believe

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,249
25,719
113
#22
I already am saved :) Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world.

He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#23
Jehovah Witness? I don't get along with them, since I'm a vampire.

(Of course I'm not a vampire, but I tell them I'm one)

I'm expecting garlic next time I run into them.
They have problems with the Cross too.

Have you read that Jesus was sacrificed even before the foundation of this world was created? And what would that mean?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#24
I already am saved :) Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world.

He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
I see we are on the same page Magenta. ;)
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,125
113
#26
@Riven, let me tell it to you straight!

Jesus didn't have to be tortured

Even if He didn't have to, why do you think he allowed himself to be tortured?

I believe he did it out of love, what do you believe would be the most likely answer to that question: why do you think he allowed himself to be tortured?

Feel free to highlight my greyed out answer to find out
 
May 19, 2019
86
3
8
#27
You make too many faulty assumptions. Jeepers. I don't revere His suffering. I revere HIM.
But you accept that Jesus suffered to pay the penalty for your sins, right? You have to at least acknowledge that, otherwise revering him on it's own is not allowing him to suffer for your sins.

You know I could argue that while Jesus hung on his cross and took on the sins of the whole world, every wilful sinful act you commit now is being dumped on him there.
 
May 19, 2019
86
3
8
#28
@Riven, let me tell it to you straight!

Jesus didn't have to be tortured

Even if He didn't have to, why do you think he allowed himself to be tortured?

I believe he did it out of love, what do you believe would be the most likely answer to that question: why do you think he allowed himself to be tortured?

Feel free to highlight my greyed out answer to find out
It's not about a man dying for love, a lot of people have died for love. It's how Christian's use that pivotal moment in history to avoid their personal responsibility.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#29
They have problems with the Cross too.

Have you read that Jesus was sacrificed even before the foundation of this world was created? And what would that mean?
Has anyone read 'Kingdom of the Cults' by Dr. Walter Martin? He exposes the truth about JW & LDS faux theology. It's fascinating reading. But I wouldn't recommend it for baby Christians, because it's complicated.
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,125
113
#30
It's not about a man dying for love, a lot of people have died for love. It's how Christian's use that pivotal moment in history to avoid their personal responsibility.
Say hypothetically, you meet God on judgment day, and God reveal every irresponsible moment of your life, how do you answer to God?

And why should God let you enter a place so perfect, the slightest irresponsibility can ruin it and hell breaks lose?
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#31
But you accept that Jesus suffered to pay the penalty for your sins, right? You have to at least acknowledge that, otherwise revering him on it's own is not allowing him to suffer for your sins.

You know I could argue that while Jesus hung on his cross and took on the sins of the whole world, every wilful sinful act you commit now is being dumped on him there.
I was taught when he died for our sins he died once and for all of them. Past, present and future. @dcontroversal; Here's your specialty.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,249
25,719
113
#32
But you accept that Jesus suffered to pay the penalty for your sins, right? You have to at least acknowledge that, otherwise revering him on it's own is not allowing him to suffer for your sins.

You know I could argue that while Jesus hung on his cross and took on the sins of the whole world, every wilful sinful act you commit now is being dumped on him there.
He already did it. There is no need to keep Him on the cross like Catholics do. Jesus now SITS at the right Hand of the Father. He already paid the sin debt. "It is finished." Those were His words. Before I believed, long before I came to believe, I wondered like you do about why He had to do it. Your last statement to Annointed makes no sense. We cannot acknowledge ourselves a sinner without having a sense of some measure of personal responsibility.
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,125
113
#33
Say hypothetically, you meet God on judgment day, and God reveal every irresponsible moment of your life, how do you answer to God?

And why should God let you enter a place so perfect, the slightest irresponsibility can ruin it and hell breaks lose?
I've been so irresponsible, that heaven not possible for me, I deserve hell,

I hate being born and wish that I can invent a time machine, to prevent my own birth

God doesn't let me invent a time machine, why?

I am stuck in this wrecked life that will condemn me to hell

Unless if Jesus who is holy enough to pay the penalty for all my sins gave his eternal life to me, I can only fantasize of traveling back in time to prevent my own birth

What would you rather believe?

I rather believe that there is hope than all hope is lost
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,510
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#35
If we can remember, that when Moses objected to God sending him to Pharaoh and started making excuses about his speech impediment? God, Yahweh, re assured him his speech would be sufficient. Moses questioned again and asked something like, whom shall I say sent me? God simply said, "I am who I am. Tell them I am sent you." There were no more questions.
 
May 19, 2019
86
3
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#36
They have problems with the Cross too.

Have you read that Jesus was sacrificed even before the foundation of this world was created? And what would that mean?
I don't know, that you Christian's believe loopy thing's.
 
May 19, 2019
86
3
8
#37
He already did it. There is no need to keep Him on the cross like Catholics do. Jesus now SITS at the right Hand of the Father. He already paid the sin debt. "It is finished." Those were His words. Before I believed, long before I came to believe, I wondered like you do about why He had to do it. Your last statement to Annointed makes no sense. We cannot acknowledge ourselves a sinner without having a sense of some measure of personal responsibility.
Beliefs create no real certainty, how can they? They're beliefs.
 
May 19, 2019
86
3
8
#39
I've been so irresponsible, that heaven not possible for me, I deserve hell,

I hate being born and wish that I can invent a time machine, to prevent my own birth

God doesn't let me invent a time machine, why?

I am stuck in this wrecked life that will condemn me to hell

Unless if Jesus who is holy enough to pay the penalty for all my sins gave his eternal life to me, I can only fantasize of traveling back in time to prevent my own birth

What would you rather believe?

I rather believe that there is hope than all hope is lost
Well, wouldn't that be paradoxical.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,249
25,719
113
#40
Beliefs create no real certainty, how can they? They're beliefs.
Do you believe that? How odd. Your beliefs certainly shape your life. What you fail to grasp is that there is certainty in knowing God when He reveals Himself to you. If He has not revealed Himself to you, it is because you were not ready. Mockery is a sure sign of not being ready.