Not By Works
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@Magenta I think riven contradicted himself when he said, he can't love someone who will threaten to torture him, or he can't love someone tortured for him
Yet, in the other post, riven claim that, he was tortured longer than Jesus, yet he can still love
Miss apologetics
Want to point out that contradiction to riven?
Yet, in the other post, riven claim that, he was tortured longer than Jesus, yet he can still love
Miss apologetics
Want to point out that contradiction to riven?
Foundations - loving Jesus through knowing Him
I am sure many do not actually know Jesus. But Jesus works with anyone who desires to know more
and will move their heart without judgement or demand of outcome.
Why would Jesus speak with someone who He knows later will fall away? Because it is only in the
talking and communion is progress made, and all who call, He does answer. The fault is always on
our side.
Insanity begins when we get things out of balance. So we can say nothing is a sin, or everything is
a sin, and convince ourselves we are right. It is our foundation in Jesus and love, forgiveness, care, a
servant heart the gives us the right focus. The cross.
I am sure many do not actually know Jesus. But Jesus works with anyone who desires to know more
and will move their heart without judgement or demand of outcome.
Why would Jesus speak with someone who He knows later will fall away? Because it is only in the
talking and communion is progress made, and all who call, He does answer. The fault is always on
our side.
Insanity begins when we get things out of balance. So we can say nothing is a sin, or everything is
a sin, and convince ourselves we are right. It is our foundation in Jesus and love, forgiveness, care, a
servant heart the gives us the right focus. The cross.
Accused of earning salvation by our walk
A tight rope walker is not earning his safety by walking on the rope, he will die if he does not.
When you know sin kills, why would you continue in sin?
Some say we have not defined sin properly. Sin obviously causes harm to another person. It is
actions that are damaging, the point at which an idea or intention becomes actual harm.
It is these actions that are worthy of judgement by God, of being called worthy of destruction.
Sin is the indication of things have gone too far, and the battle of motivation, desire, truth and
lies have resulted in failure.
What is not being defined properly is cleansing, redemption, justification, holiness.
To some everything is beyond redemption, only an external holiness and spirit can redeem the
essence of an individual who dwells in a fallen lost body. And this is done by creating an eternal
spirit in the body, that will live with God in the Kingdom.
But this is not the gospel or Jesus's message through the cross of victory over sin and death for
the believer in their life today.
So those who claim to walk the tight rope yet stay falling to their death are deceived.
They simply do not see the path or its relevance, because their very belief system declares this
reality.
A tight rope walker is not earning his safety by walking on the rope, he will die if he does not.
When you know sin kills, why would you continue in sin?
Some say we have not defined sin properly. Sin obviously causes harm to another person. It is
actions that are damaging, the point at which an idea or intention becomes actual harm.
It is these actions that are worthy of judgement by God, of being called worthy of destruction.
Sin is the indication of things have gone too far, and the battle of motivation, desire, truth and
lies have resulted in failure.
What is not being defined properly is cleansing, redemption, justification, holiness.
To some everything is beyond redemption, only an external holiness and spirit can redeem the
essence of an individual who dwells in a fallen lost body. And this is done by creating an eternal
spirit in the body, that will live with God in the Kingdom.
But this is not the gospel or Jesus's message through the cross of victory over sin and death for
the believer in their life today.
So those who claim to walk the tight rope yet stay falling to their death are deceived.
They simply do not see the path or its relevance, because their very belief system declares this
reality.
insanity begins when one refuses to accept black and white reality, and start to make up their own.
like the Gospel- believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved .
believe- place confidence in , entrust, to think to be true.
so, one is saved by this. the walk is a totally separate matter.
this is reality. do you accept it? or will you insist on rejecting it, and creating your own?
like the Gospel- believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved .
believe- place confidence in , entrust, to think to be true.
so, one is saved by this. the walk is a totally separate matter.
this is reality. do you accept it? or will you insist on rejecting it, and creating your own?
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Hi gb9, Its very windy hear, hard to hear what you are saying, the noise is very loud about staying in
the world and living like the world as if this leads to heaven.
11 Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul.
1 Peter 2
4 don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be
a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
5 Or do you think Scripture says without reason that the spirit he caused to live in us envies intensely?
6 But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."
James 4
If you understand Jesus shows us the path that leads to life and we are to walk it, amen, if not I can be
wish you well, but I go on the path Jesus leads, Amen.
the world and living like the world as if this leads to heaven.
11 Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul.
1 Peter 2
4 don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be
a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
5 Or do you think Scripture says without reason that the spirit he caused to live in us envies intensely?
6 But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."
James 4
If you understand Jesus shows us the path that leads to life and we are to walk it, amen, if not I can be
wish you well, but I go on the path Jesus leads, Amen.
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It strikes me that if one says this "the walk is a totally separate matter." has never met truly evil people.
A homicidal maniac who has killed loads of people comes to faith.
They continue killing people and this is not a problem?
Now this sounds an extreme example but it is the stark realities which define ones true beliefs.
The apostles were quite explicit.
9 I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people--
10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters.
In that case you would have to leave this world.
11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is
sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
1 Cor 5
It is clear Paul expects those who come to faith who are sexually immoral, greedy, idolaters, slanderers,
drunkards or a swindler to stop behaving like this.
So behaviour does matter, and coming to Christ creates a radical change, or else the change has not taken place.
Now one cannot really argue with this, Paul is declaring faith leads to change, and if no change is present, one
has to leave these people alone.
A homicidal maniac who has killed loads of people comes to faith.
They continue killing people and this is not a problem?
Now this sounds an extreme example but it is the stark realities which define ones true beliefs.
The apostles were quite explicit.
9 I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people--
10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters.
In that case you would have to leave this world.
11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is
sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
1 Cor 5
It is clear Paul expects those who come to faith who are sexually immoral, greedy, idolaters, slanderers,
drunkards or a swindler to stop behaving like this.
So behaviour does matter, and coming to Christ creates a radical change, or else the change has not taken place.
Now one cannot really argue with this, Paul is declaring faith leads to change, and if no change is present, one
has to leave these people alone.
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and where have I said that behavior does not matter?
what I say is this- we are saved by belief, faith, and trust in Christ. I gave the definition of the word believe earlier.
so, then, when one truly believes , then as a natural result, the behavior of the person begins to change.
but, that change is due TO salvation, not the changed behavior will lead to salvation.
you and your church and it's sick lie of a creed have it backward.
so, as I said, you are currently rejecting Biblical salvation , by faith and trust in Christ, and going with man made teaching, just yanking verses out of context, and ignoring word definitions , which I will always stand against, and never accept.
so, as I said, I see no need to continue to interact, as these things are incompatible.
what I say is this- we are saved by belief, faith, and trust in Christ. I gave the definition of the word believe earlier.
so, then, when one truly believes , then as a natural result, the behavior of the person begins to change.
but, that change is due TO salvation, not the changed behavior will lead to salvation.
you and your church and it's sick lie of a creed have it backward.
so, as I said, you are currently rejecting Biblical salvation , by faith and trust in Christ, and going with man made teaching, just yanking verses out of context, and ignoring word definitions , which I will always stand against, and never accept.
so, as I said, I see no need to continue to interact, as these things are incompatible.
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"you and your church and it's sick lie of a creed have it backward."
Here you are not being truthful. If you cannot fairly represent others there is little point me respecting
your faith or integrity. And why would you desire to do this?
You end up becoming just a slanderer and someone shouting in the dark about the wrong things in the
wrong way. I find it ironic this sense of judgementalism and indignation but without the ability to listen
and know anothers heart. Must be something to do with dwelling in darkness and walking in the light
of Jesus's glorious light shown in His love through the cross.
We have a path to walk. How did Jesus describe this path?
13 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads
to destruction, and many enter through it.
14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Matt 7
We are saved, brought into communion with Him so we can then walk the path we need to follow.
Now it would superficially appear you agree with this, except you keep repeating words that contradict
this, which suggests something else is going on. But praise the Lord I only have to follow the Lord and
His way and the light of His love and grace, Amen.
Here you are not being truthful. If you cannot fairly represent others there is little point me respecting
your faith or integrity. And why would you desire to do this?
You end up becoming just a slanderer and someone shouting in the dark about the wrong things in the
wrong way. I find it ironic this sense of judgementalism and indignation but without the ability to listen
and know anothers heart. Must be something to do with dwelling in darkness and walking in the light
of Jesus's glorious light shown in His love through the cross.
We have a path to walk. How did Jesus describe this path?
13 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads
to destruction, and many enter through it.
14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Matt 7
We are saved, brought into communion with Him so we can then walk the path we need to follow.
Now it would superficially appear you agree with this, except you keep repeating words that contradict
this, which suggests something else is going on. But praise the Lord I only have to follow the Lord and
His way and the light of His love and grace, Amen.
Hi Bill,
So you believe I am trying to earn my salvation, and those faithful believers who are following Jesus
in faith and truth, empowered by the Holy Spirit, are lost and doomed to hell.
What is crazy to me, is this idea fulfilling salvation is pitched as a denial of faith and the gospel.
Maybe those who claim to see are truly blind, and they can say opposite things and claim they
are speaking the truth.
This is a spiritual truth, that is discerned because Christ dwells in our hearts. The Kingdom of Heaven
come to earth in His people. Thank you Jesus that you regard us as worthy, Amen, through the cross
and redemption to carry your word and truth to the lost. Amen.
So you believe I am trying to earn my salvation, and those faithful believers who are following Jesus
in faith and truth, empowered by the Holy Spirit, are lost and doomed to hell.
What is crazy to me, is this idea fulfilling salvation is pitched as a denial of faith and the gospel.
Maybe those who claim to see are truly blind, and they can say opposite things and claim they
are speaking the truth.
This is a spiritual truth, that is discerned because Christ dwells in our hearts. The Kingdom of Heaven
come to earth in His people. Thank you Jesus that you regard us as worthy, Amen, through the cross
and redemption to carry your word and truth to the lost. Amen.
I like the story Pilgrims progress.
The story is in effect we personally do not know others people progress, or how far or how well they
are progressing. But what we do know is where we are, and the next step Jesus calls us to make.
Nothing can prosper against the Kingdom and its principles ruling in His peoples heart.
The great thing about the light, is what appears hidden is laid bare, and what is talked as unsolvable
is simple to define and sort out.
2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
1 John 5
The story is in effect we personally do not know others people progress, or how far or how well they
are progressing. But what we do know is where we are, and the next step Jesus calls us to make.
Nothing can prosper against the Kingdom and its principles ruling in His peoples heart.
The great thing about the light, is what appears hidden is laid bare, and what is talked as unsolvable
is simple to define and sort out.
2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
1 John 5
Hi FHS,
Page 5011, post 100,207
gb9 posted and asked
"The truth is that when one comes to Christ, that person is forgiven and saved the moment they truly believe and accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour,
Agree or disagree??
Your response was
I addressed with you that basically you do not agree because you took faith out of equation.
And asked if that was the case.
You responded with
Now that response was different from the one you gave to gb9.
I have no idea whether you are trying to earn your salvation or not.
But given your response to gb9 it seems so.
To suggest that I believe genuine believers who want to follow Jesus and doomed to hell for doing so is totally disingenuous.
I have never ever ever ever suggested or implied anything of the sort, and never would.
You obviously have not read enough of my posts and experiences of life and how it has affected my walk with Jesus.
And everything he has had to do in me to take the crutches I walked on.
I agree totally with those who like me believe that we are saved by faith out of which we want to be like Jesus, that's our walk, our calling.
The people who in your quote above want to be Jesus that I believe are going to hell, is not what I'm saying nor those who believe what I do.
The problem for me that I see is that you say they do.
Your posts and responses are all over the place.
Even when I can see agreement you cannot.
It's like you are right and everyone is wrong.
As you say
Conversations have to work both ways.
Page 5011, post 100,207
gb9 posted and asked
"The truth is that when one comes to Christ, that person is forgiven and saved the moment they truly believe and accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour,
Agree or disagree??
Your response was
I addressed with you that basically you do not agree because you took faith out of equation.
And asked if that was the case.
You responded with
Now that response was different from the one you gave to gb9.
I have no idea whether you are trying to earn your salvation or not.
But given your response to gb9 it seems so.
To suggest that I believe genuine believers who want to follow Jesus and doomed to hell for doing so is totally disingenuous.
I have never ever ever ever suggested or implied anything of the sort, and never would.
You obviously have not read enough of my posts and experiences of life and how it has affected my walk with Jesus.
And everything he has had to do in me to take the crutches I walked on.
I agree totally with those who like me believe that we are saved by faith out of which we want to be like Jesus, that's our walk, our calling.
The people who in your quote above want to be Jesus that I believe are going to hell, is not what I'm saying nor those who believe what I do.
The problem for me that I see is that you say they do.
Your posts and responses are all over the place.
Even when I can see agreement you cannot.
It's like you are right and everyone is wrong.
As you say
Conversations have to work both ways.
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