Not By Works

[Macabeus]

How much do you suppose is required?🙄

Lol.

God does not need to see one work to know He quickened someones spirit.


I'll give you a story of a different man, you keep posting over and over again swinging at air.


This is from me, not brother dave.


There is a man who loves to drink
he loves to swear and be violent
he is bitter and holds grudges to the point of wanting harm on others
he is a fornicator
he loves,it and doesn't regret a moment of it
he loves to fight and eat junk food and smoke
he lies and manipulates and is very lazy every chance he gets....


this man hears God call

he tries to ignore it... but he ends up hearing the gospel

and it sinks in.... there is a core belief

now paired with the understanding he is in trouble

he is still lacking wisdom so he dives deeper into the word


at first he has many misconceptions

but God uses His children and His word to answer this mans prayers and shine light on the truth

this man now understands the saving gospel

he understands Jesus died for his sins

he understands the cost of sin

he understands that God is offering a free give of grace and ETERNAL life


God does not need one... not even one drop of outward evidence to see if this faith is genuine....

if this man is born again

he is saved
works do not prove he is saved

and lack of works before the eyes of man do not prove he isnt



now this man does not fornicate
but still struggles with lust sometimes in his thoughts <- before God his works dont justify him


before man he improved
but before God he will always need Jesus's righteousness which is by faith

this man no longer swears or is violent or even holds grudges ... but still has a temper and gets angry <- still misses the mark before God

this man still drinks too much from time to time

but instead of being joyful... it breaks his heart and he cries to God


where are this mans works....

to you it is impossible he is saved?

at what point can he be saved... how many works do you feel are required to justify a man before another man....


no one has argued against God working new desires in us and chastening us and making us turn from sin

you come to a thread which gives GOD GLORY AND PRAISE for salvation


His wonderful gift

then you bicker and ramble trying to point to works of man


why?

start an encouragement for walking with a clean heart thread unless you disagree we are saved by grace alone through faith alone in our Lord and savior Jesus Christ

You asked "where are this man's works.?'

There are several ways the man can serve God in joy and gratitude. ANY born again person can serve God from joy and gratitude of being saved. If nothing else, the fact that I am justified should make me desire to see others saved, and lead to me at least praying for them, if not sharing my faith with them. That was Annas, the one in Luke 2, ministry.

 

[Macabeus]

I haven't asked to speak with or debate you, you quoted me then starting fighting against the words of others calling me an accuser and rambling, while never addressing the context of MY posts.


If you keep talking about some words someone else said and wanting me to argue for them, you will end up wasting your time.





vvvvv

Did you forgot that you asked me "show me where SOMEONE said such and such". Is your name "someone", making that question only apply to you? Pleased to meet you, Someone. You also said "who has once said... such and such", and I answered, now you're throwing a tantrum.

 

[OneOfHis]

Did you forgot that you asked me "show me where ANYONE said such and such". Is your name "anyone"? Pleased to meet you, Anyone.

Did you forgot that you asked me "show me where SOMEONE said such and such". Is your name "someone", making that question only apply to you? Pleased to meet you, Someone. You also said "who has once said... such and such", and I answered, now you're throwing a tantrum.

When have I thrown a tantrum?
🤔

 

[Macabeus]

How much do you suppose is required?🙄

Lol.

God does not need to see one work to know He quickened someones spirit.


I'll give you a story of a different man, you keep posting over and over again swinging at air.


This is from me, not brother dave.


There is a man who loves to drink
he loves to swear and be violent
he is bitter and holds grudges to the point of wanting harm on others
he is a fornicator
he loves,it and doesn't regret a moment of it
he loves to fight and eat junk food and smoke
he lies and manipulates and is very lazy every chance he gets....


this man hears God call

he tries to ignore it... but he ends up hearing the gospel

and it sinks in.... there is a core belief

now paired with the understanding he is in trouble

he is still lacking wisdom so he dives deeper into the word


at first he has many misconceptions

but God uses His children and His word to answer this mans prayers and shine light on the truth

this man now understands the saving gospel

he understands Jesus died for his sins

he understands the cost of sin

he understands that God is offering a free give of grace and ETERNAL life


God does not need one... not even one drop of outward evidence to see if this faith is genuine....

if this man is born again

he is saved
works do not prove he is saved

and lack of works before the eyes of man do not prove he isnt



now this man does not fornicate
but still struggles with lust sometimes in his thoughts <- before God his works dont justify him


before man he improved
but before God he will always need Jesus's righteousness which is by faith

this man no longer swears or is violent or even holds grudges ... but still has a temper and gets angry <- still misses the mark before God

this man still drinks too much from time to time

but instead of being joyful... it breaks his heart and he cries to God


where are this mans works....

to you it is impossible he is saved?

at what point can he be saved... how many works do you feel are required to justify a man before another man....


no one has argued against God working new desires in us and chastening us and making us turn from sin

you come to a thread which gives GOD GLORY AND PRAISE for salvation


His wonderful gift

then you bicker and ramble trying to point to works of man


why?

start an encouragement for walking with a clean heart thread unless you disagree we are saved by grace alone through faith alone in our Lord and savior Jesus Christ

quote- God does not need to see one work to know He quickened someones spirit.

Now THAT'S a STRAWMAN!

 

[Macabeus]

What are you talking about, you seemed to be arguing against salvation by grace through faith

No, I am arguing against the argument that salvation by grace through faith does not lead to spiritual laziness and or apathy in Christians, ie being saved 50 years without ever doing anything for God or man, which are good works. In my next post, I will show all the posts that show that the problem is not my answers, but your understanding

 

[Macabeus]

When have I thrown a tantrum?
🤔

It is evident that you are throwing a tantrum, because you are speaking before you think, and keep contradicting yourself, like asking "show me where someone said such and such" and then saying "if you keep trying to make me argue for what someone else says" when I do.

 

[Macabeus]

Yep, it's funny that a person would use a verse about the grace of God to prove hypothetical apathy and laziness in Christians, as DC did. And then when someone is arguing works follow as a result of love and gratitude, you come along and repeat the same verse, which indicates, that if you were reading along, you agreed with DC's "grace plus apathy and laziness" argument.

 

[Macabeus]

OOH said "show me where someone said such and such" and then saying "if you keep trying to make me argue for what someone else says" when I do.

 

[OneOfHis]

OOH said "show me where someone said such and such" and then saying "if you keep trying to make me argue for what someone else says" when I do.

I can't tell if you're a troll or very confused... or maybe intoxicated...

 

[OneOfHis]

OOH said "show me where someone said such and such" and then saying "if you keep trying to make me argue for what someone else says" when I do.

You quoted a post of mine which was from days ago.

A verse which proves that we have only God to thank for salvation.... you then start rambling and swinging at air using the words of others saying this or that... not making any sense what so ever.


So I posted a long series of questions paired with an example so you and I can get to the core issues....

In the midst of me trying to understand you and get to the most important issue at hand you claim I have accused you and made straw men and thrown a tantrum....

none of that is true
and you are a false accuser


maybe I lacked patience after seeing how youve went after others in this hypocritical strange way

but I didn't ask for this

you are bombarding my notifications with unthoughtful post after unthoughtful post of nonsense

 

[SimpleGardner]

It may be helpful to review the details of these verses:

Mat 7:21-23 KJV Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[OneOfHis]

It may be helpful to review the details of these verses:

Mat 7:21-23 KJV Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

they have probably been reviewed on this thread probably 700+ times at this point


those who were never saved

pointing to their works to show who they are in Christ

they have not done the will of the Father and believed on Him who He sent

and are still seen as workers of iniquity not being covered by the blood of Jesus

 

[Macabeus]

You quoted a post of mine which was from days ago.

A verse which proves that we have only God to thank for salvation.... you then start rambling and swinging at air using the words of others saying this or that... not making any sense what so ever.


So I posted a long series of questions paired with an example so you and I can get to the core issues....

In the midst of me trying to understand you and get to the most important issue at hand you claim I have accused you and made straw men and thrown a tantrum....

none of that is true
and you are a false accuser


maybe I lacked patience after seeing how youve went after others in this hypocritical strange way

but I didn't ask for this

you are bombarding my notifications with unthoughtful post after unthoughtful post of nonsense

Where you reading the posts before you posted? And what were we discussing when you posted that verse. I interpret statements in th CONTEXT in which they are made. Ever heard of context?

 

[SimpleGardner]

🤔

May I ask why you quoted me?



My sober question was a genuine question, not an insult or inuendo.

If you go back and read the last 40 pages or so, I think you would understand a bit more.


Is the account you are on right now "simplegardener" the only CC account you have ever posted on?

Greetings OneOfHis,

I was reviewing the thread and just happened to be on yours when I was led to encourage "EVERYONE" to calm down and consider the tone of the discussion.

I will try to review the pages you mentioned.

I am new here, never posted under any other account.

I am not your enemy nor do I desire to be.

Please consider me a friend to anyone who honors Gods Will.

 

[SimpleGardner]

they have probably been reviewed on this thread probably 700+ times at this point


those who were never saved

pointing to their works to show who they are in Christ

they have not done the will of the Father and believed on Him who He sent

and are still seen as workers of iniquity not being covered by the blood of Jesus

The word "INIQUITY" in 7:23 is anomia meaning "without the law" Jesus is pointing out that "Works" are meaningless to those who do not abide by the will (laws/commandments) of God. Not that "works" are not good. Jesus Himself did many works, but He was also sinless (kept all the commandments)

 

[gb9]

You quoted a post of mine which was from days ago.

A verse which proves that we have only God to thank for salvation.... you then start rambling and swinging at air using the words of others saying this or that... not making any sense what so ever.


So I posted a long series of questions paired with an example so you and I can get to the core issues....

In the midst of me trying to understand you and get to the most important issue at hand you claim I have accused you and made straw men and thrown a tantrum....

none of that is true
and you are a false accuser


maybe I lacked patience after seeing how youve went after others in this hypocritical strange way

but I didn't ask for this

you are bombarding my notifications with unthoughtful post after unthoughtful post of nonsense

all this started about 3-4 months ago, when doctroversial said something not manifesting the fruits of the Spirt for 50 years, in response to macbus saying that one will instantly start doing good works.

macbus went off on a weeks long tirade about this, it's been months and he is STILL going off about it.

 

[Macabeus]

Where did dcon say paul wrote 1 john?
🤔

Oh, yeah. You're the guy who didn't know that taking taking the concept of two natures, quoting Paul as having taught the doctrine, and then applying it to 1 John 3:6-10 is transposing a teaching from one context to another, from a context where it does exist (various Pauline texts) to a context where the teaching is not mentioned (ie 1 John 3). I remember you now.

I said "1 John 3 is not about two natures, and DC said "Pal, you have no idea"

Which is basically trying to say I am wrong about 1 John 3:6-10.

SO taking a Pauline teaching of two natures, and applying it to John is why I said what I said in your quote above

 

[OneOfHis]

Greetings OneOfHis,

I was reviewing the thread and just happened to be on yours when I was led to encourage "EVERYONE" to calm down and consider the tone of the discussion.

I will try to review the pages you mentioned.

I am new here, never posted under any other account.

I am not your enemy nor do I desire to be.

Please consider me a friend to anyone who honors Gods Will.

hey🙂

I don't want an enemy either

but to warn you

this sort of congregation online

has many false teachers
and even trolls

after being here for years
i have definitely been guilty of running thin on patience

(unlike you this is not my first account, i have asked to have my last one deleted to change my name)


so thank you for the encouragement

 

[OneOfHis]

The word "INIQUITY" in 7:23 is anomia meaning "without the law" Jesus is pointing out that "Works" are meaningless to those who do not abide by the will (laws/commandments) of God. Not that "works" are not good. Jesus Himself did many works, but He was also sinless (kept all the commandments)

The reason they are still seen as workers of iniquity, is because they are not sinless.

In order to be seen as sinless we need the righteousness of Jesus imputed to us.

(which is by grace through faith)

 

[SimpleGardner]

hey🙂

I don't want an enemy either

but to warn you

this sort of congregation online

has many false teachers
and even trolls

after being here for years
i have definitely been guilty of running thin on patience

(unlike you this is not my first account, i have asked to have my last one deleted to change my name)


so thank you for the encouragement

Yeah, This kind of faceless discussion forum leaves it open to trolls.

I'm here to learn, perhaps even learn the strategies of the enemy too.

I appreciate the warning. I will be careful.

May the Kingdom Come into full authority soon!

I think it's close, the furor is getting deafening!