Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

[TheDivineWatermark]

Nat2019: You need to get of OSAS before you lose hope, because you might not be good enough,

"...because you might not be good enough" (<--certainly sounds like it stems from false doctrine/teaching)

 

[UnderGrace]

Daniel D. Corner, Evangelical Outreach, Washington, PA, is one of several voices promoting the heresy of Arminian fundamentalism on the Internet. He is associated with the Jesus is Lord Ministries International, Word Broadcasting Network*, and the satellite Reformation Channel. These media conduits feature various Anglo-Catholics, Wesleyan/holiness ministers, revivalists, and charismatic preachers. Beware!

Thank you BillG.

Their gospel is basically you need to stop sinning, deny self, carry your cross, all works to earn salvation.... because as I was told by this group salvation is not a "get out jail free card"

Can you imagine even saying that about the work of Jesus ...... how denigrating to the plan of salvation!!!

 

[posthuman]

It does I was an example for you
You need to get of OSAS before you lose hope, because you might not be good enough, then people will say you were never saved to begin with.

that is really hilarious considering the alternative you've bought into is not being saved at all until you somehow make yourself whatever you think is good enough, or keep yourself good enough forever, because one slip and suddenly you're unsaved.

there is no more sacrifice for sin.
you cannot crucify Christ over again.

what do you figure it means, then - one sin and that's it, chance blown?
or one sacrifice perfected forever everyone who is being made holy by Him?

if you don't trust Him, you don't believe Him.

 

[posthuman]

Why are protecting John Calvin, he was a murderer who thought he was Christian. Why protect this Guy, if people dont agree with a murderer who burnt someone on green wood let them. This man wasnt a good man

i have never read even a single word Calvin wrote.
i listen to between 5 and 15 random pastors every week. it is rare that i listen to any sermon and don't find anything i criticize. i never take for granted that any of them are right in what they preach or accurately represent facts.

i believe what i believe because i read it in scripture.

anyhow i'd never heard of anyone use the 'guilt by association' logical fallacy about Mssr. Calvin being a murderer to try to throw shade on reformed theology. so i looked it up.
found this article informative:

http://salvationbygrace.org/current-qa/john-calvin-a-murderer/

 

[posthuman]

These group is something else, they all have the exact same narrative!!

I just knew from the start of the conversation, when you have been involved with this group you just know the playbook it never deviates and then can never reason independent from what they have been taught.

not entirely unlike sheep, you say?

 

[dcontroversal]

You seem to do that quite often...ineffective, I might add. How come the change...or are you saying......make up the meaning as you go?

Listen pal...nothing you say, and I mean nothing, carries any weight or value with me....I have watched you butcher the truth in almost every post you make while twisting the word so far out of context that instead of it being bible it has been skewed into the false gospel of Preston.....

 

[UnderGrace]

not entirely unlike sheep, you say?

Too funny!!

 

[dcontroversal]

The expression "faith without works" conveys a very different meaning than "faith alone."

Example: "roast beef without mashed potatoes" means something very different than "roast beef alone"!

take it up with God...your BEEF IS WITH HIS WORD NOT ME, and while your at it, in honesty explain the following verse....the other salvation losers cannot, will not, simple reject or side step it..

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[posthuman]

Let God decide. But we shouldn't test him with what we can get away with. Our focus shouldn't be how many sins does it take for God to punish me. It should be how many righteous things should I do to please the Lord.

in either case you presented, the focus is on how big a pile of filthy rags a person can amass.
((re: Isaiah 64:6, Jude 1:23))

amen, no, we certainly should not tempt God. but what do you think, you can do X amount of good things, and that will justify you in front of Him? but (X-1) and oh no? and maybe if you do (X+1) He'll love you more than someone who only does X ?
that's the way of thinking a person has when they want to bribe a judge, or get a bigger paycheck. i don't believe either is the way we ought to think; we ought to love.

i love my cat. i don't hug him or give him special snacks or toys because i'm trying to stay on his good side or because i'm trying to get something from him or because i'm afraid he'll scratch me if i don't. i treat him well because i love him. i would share my meals with him and brush his fluff even if it didn't make him purr -- i love him, and that changes my heart, so that i love to do the things that he loves. it's not selfishness in any way, on my part. love causes me to lay aside my own desires and his desires to become my own. it is not 'scoring cool points'

 

[dcontroversal]

IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS inst in the bible.

There seems to be a lot of truth not found in your bible.........and in all honesty if you believe what you have written here....you have rejected the main truth of the bible!!

 

[dcontroversal]

We already know him Thank you Jesus

Not according to post 634....

 

[dcontroversal]

Do you hate each other? Do you feel that your anger is justified? Take a deep breath and relax. Anger does not allow understanding so it's useless to argue. If salvation can't be lost, then a pleasant surprise is waiting for those who think they can lose their salvation.

Not hardly....one gospel of salvation.....MANY COME BEFORE the Lord claiming him as Lord and a right to enter based upon what they have done.....False gospels do not save........

 

[posthuman]

I am not part of a church I don't even live in your country. So I am independent of thought

Know that the LORD is God.
It is He who made us, and we are His;
we are His people, the sheep of His pasture.​

(Psalm 100:3) ​

first of all, God calls us His sheep. that is all over the Bible. so 'sheep' is not an insult -- it's the truth, about every person who ever lived. you. me. sheep. there is no such thing as 'independence of thought' in an human.

the problem arises when you have the wrong shepherd.
and you are no different, even though you would boast, because your shepherds are Dan & Sheryl and their pamphlets. you're their sheep. they inform your thinking.

if you received you should be thanking God, not people.
if you're not Dan & Sheryl's sheep, and you really do just let your mind be molded from scripture, then you are still a sheep and you are not independent of thought. you are the sheep of the One who wrote it, whose Word it is.

 

[dcontroversal]

Sadly I have come to think people who hate osas are against Calvinism and that’s their beef. They think it is a Calvinist teaching. So they must stand against it

Sad that they are so busy trying to defeat a doctrine they hate they can’t see the truth of security in Christ

Irrevocable unless one is a salvation loser......Kept by the power of God unless one is a salvation loser.....Imputed rightepusness of Christ unless one is a working for Pharisee.......

 

[UnderGrace]

in either case you presented, the focus is on how big a pile of filthy rags a person can amass.
((re: Isaiah 64:6, Jude 1:23))

Amen ... this is the heart of this teaching... stop sinning and you are saved, so sad.

 

[dcontroversal]

If you your salvation is not secure and assured then you are working for salvation, there is no way around that, because it means there is something you must do to stay saved >>>>> thereby nullifying the work of the cross!!

Amen.....salvation loser = worker for

 

[dcontroversal]

Is Jesus still on the cross paying the debt of sin?

He said, "It is finished" <---10 to 1 the salvation losers and workers for in this thread have no idea of the LEGAL ACCOUNTING TERM this represents......but hey.....if Jesus did not PAY IT IN FULL.....no one is saved....!!

 

[posthuman]

Your teachings come from a murderer, come on and these people are false?

The point is I won't make things up if there not based on the bible.

just a couple facts to clear up:



John Calvin, who lived during the dark ages, was subpoenaed and served as an expert witness for the prosecution once in the trial of a man who was under indictment by the RCC. the trial was presided over by a council of 25 elders of the city and informed by testimony in court and letters of recommendation and evidence written by dozens of pastors and priests from all the surrounding area.
Calvin spent hours before, during and after the trial with the man trying to get him to recant his anti-trinitarian views, to change his mind, and to convince him of the truth of scripture. hours he was not required to spend and effort he was not required to exert.

for this Nat calls him ((has been taught to call him)) a murderer.

what Nat refers to as 'Calvanism' is the decision and witness of the synod of Dort in 1619, almost 60 years after Calvin died.
the synod consisted of representatives from every Dutch church and 8 foreign congregations deliberating for 7 months over the truth of scripture concerning the theology and gospel according to Arminianism. they found that Arminianism is heresy.
they did not base their decision on 'whatever Calvin said 75 years ago' -- they searched the scripture, and prayed, and debated, and searched and prayed and debated some more. for months. their conclusions were based on the Bible and what they considered the Holy Spirit to say to them.

for this Nat says ((has been taught to say)) reformed theology is just the private interpretation of one man.

 

[dcontroversal]

He is more than able to deal with us even to the point of death.....Ananias and Sapphira come to mind.

They have no idea of the preemptive Grace of God that deals with our sin as we sin.....It ABOUNDS THE MORE....but hey.......I guess the blood of thier christ is ineffectual

 

[posthuman]

because as I was told by this group salvation is not a "get out jail free card"

lol wow,

um, that is exactly what it is

In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace that He lavished on us.
(Ephesians 1:7-8) ​

​

For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.
(Romans 6:14)​