Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,025
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Every time I sin I ask Him to forgive me. If I kill a person and not fell guilty than rob the bank for living and never fell sorry, I will lose my salvation.

You may believe after you save, you welcome to chose to robe the bank as a job and not lose your salvation don't you?
Extremes as usual.

Look at my post above yours then you will see my thoughts.

What about in our workplace.

Paid an hourly rate.
Yet you spend time talking to fellow employees.
Is that not robbing your employer?

Sin is sin.
Whether it be physical, mental, commission or omission.
It's all the same in they eyes of God.
 

Margo74

Active member
Jul 11, 2019
147
63
28
Extremes as usual.

Look at my post above yours then you will see my thoughts.

What about in our workplace.

Paid an hourly rate.
Yet you spend time talking to fellow employees.
Is that not robbing your employer?

Sin is sin.
Whether it be physical, mental, commission or omission.
It's all the same in they eyes of God.
yes, sin is sin is sin and all sin leads to death UNLESS one genuinely repents and God reads hearts so knows how genuine one's repentance is .. Christ died for nothing IF heaven is going to be able to be full of unrepentant sinners .. do not sin but if you weaken and give in to sin, repent and turn back to God and change back from your will to doing His Holy Will ..
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,895
3,633
113
So it is actually possible to lose salvation then?
Yes it is:) according to the bible:)
@dcontroversal and @UnderGrace say, "No, a true believer cannot lose their salvation."

Well, just for the record.........

I believe a true believer will NEVER lose their salvation.

But, what is the definition of a "true believer" and "salvation"?

Salvation - to be saved from God’s wrath which destroys Body and Soul; to not perish in the Lake of Fire which is the final judgment.

True Believer – a person that is recognized by God and all of heaven as one of His because the person by faith has received the Blood of Yeshua/Jesus for forgiveness of their sins and the Body of Yeshua/Jesus as the gift of Righteousness in exchange for their filthy rags of righteousness.

Also, the true believer has been given the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit seals and indwells the true believer. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth that leads, guides, comforts, instructs, corrects and empowers the true believer to be a witness of Yeshua/Jesus in the Earth.

Note: New believers can be tossed around a bit and even question if their salvation is real – this is normal.

Just keep growing in the knowledge of God’s Word and rely on the leading of the Holy Spirit. He will bear witness to your spirit that you are saved. He will teach you and give you understanding of the scriptures. Be sure to fellowship with other true believers – love and encourage each other.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,025
4,444
113
yes, sin is sin is sin and all sin leads to death UNLESS one genuinely repents and God reads hearts so knows how genuine one's repentance is .. Christ died for nothing IF heaven is going to be able to be full of unrepentant sinners .. do not sin but if you weaken and give in to sin, repent and turn back to God and change back from your will to doing His Holy Will ..
The problem here is definiing what sin is.

Is it a sin to drink alcohol?

If it is to you but not to someone else then what?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
Extremes as usual.

Look at my post above yours then you will see my thoughts.

What about in our workplace.

Paid an hourly rate.
Yet you spend time talking to fellow employees.
Is that not robbing your employer?

Sin is sin.
Whether it be physical, mental, commission or omission.
It's all the same in they eyes of God.
So you believe is ok whether you kill people every day or talking to your friend when you work by hour after you accept Jesus and not lose your salvation?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
nice that someone agrees with me .. any who do not do God's Will and do not repent for such are not going to have eternal life in heaven and why so many think they will boggles my mind .. there will be NO unrepentant sinners in heaven, only repentant ones ..
Right, because when we repented and we are born again (regenerated)... God gave us "eternal life"

He gave us His "quality of life" (eternal life) and in Him there is no sin.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
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@dcontroversal and @UnderGrace say, "No, a true believer cannot lose their salvation."

Well, just for the record.........

I believe a true believer will NEVER lose their salvation.

But, what is the definition of a "true believer" and "salvation"?

Salvation - to be saved from God’s wrath which destroys Body and Soul; to not perish in the Lake of Fire which is the final judgment.

True Believer – a person that is recognized by God and all of heaven as one of His because the person by faith has received the Blood of Yeshua/Jesus for forgiveness of their sins and the Body of Yeshua/Jesus as the gift of Righteousness in exchange for their filthy rags of righteousness.

Also, the true believer has been given the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit seals and indwells the true believer. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth that leads, guides, comforts, instructs, corrects and empowers the true believer to be a witness of Yeshua/Jesus in the Earth.

Note: New believers can be tossed around a bit and even question if their salvation is real – this is normal.

Just keep growing in the knowledge of God’s Word and rely on the leading of the Holy Spirit. He will bear witness to your spirit that you are saved. He will teach you and give you understanding of the scriptures. Be sure to fellowship with other true believers – love and encourage each other.
Amen......Irrevocable, kept, lose nothing, eternal life, leave the 99 to find the one that wandered, sealed, in Father's and Son's hand, never perish, he abides faithful if we become faithless etc....and on and on......so many truths must be swept aside, skewed, denied, rejected, embellished and or context twisted and denied to peddle a losable salvation........
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
Right, because when we repented and we are born again (regenerated)... God gave us "eternal life"

He gave us His "quality of life" (eternal life) and in Him there is no sin.
What do you mean by in Him there is no sin?

Is that mean after we accept Jesus we not able to commit sin?

Or ok to kill and not consider as a sin?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,025
4,444
113
So you believe is ok whether you kill people every day or talking to your friend when you work by hour after you accept Jesus and not lose your salvation?
You obviously do.

One extreme to the other.

Kill people every day????????????????
Come on man get real.
When do genuine believers do that?
I'm surprised you haven't mentioned rape or adultery every day.

Now tell me where I said it was ok.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,481
695
113
What do you mean by in Him there is no sin?

Is that mean after we accept Jesus we not able to commit sin?

Or ok to kill and not consider as a sin?
You are saved from the “effects” of sin, which is death. No one in Scripture, except Jesus, was sinless. If you think that “you” or anyone can be “perfectly sinless,” then you need to go back and read a little more, about what you are saved from, and for.

David and Moses were both murderers. Look at all the sinners God saved, by grace, not because they were sinless.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,025
4,444
113
What do you mean by in Him there is no sin?

Is that mean after we accept Jesus we not able to commit sin?

Or ok to kill and not consider as a sin?
Extremes as I said.

Is it ok to steal time from your employer.
Is it ok to see a poor person in the church who can't put food on the table, yet you have spare money and don't buy food for them?
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
No it talks about a COMPLETE faith. A COMPLETE faith is needed for salvation.
Take a look closely at the chronology I pointed out earlier (in Rom4 and related passages):

Romans 4 -

"...For we are saying faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness. 10 How then was it credited? Being in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith that he had while in the uncircumcision, for him to be father of all those believing while in uncircumcision, for the righteousness to be credited also to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those not only of circumcision, but also to those walking in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham during uncircumcision."


[see Genesis 17 in relation to the "befores" of this, and the "afters" of ^ this particular "divide/time-marker," if you will... Isaac wasn't even born yet (this was well before THAT even!), and it was a very long time even after he was born that Abraham "offered Isaac up"... and Hebrews 11:17-19 says (well after the v.8 [incident of] "By faith Abraham, being called to go out..."), vv.17-19 - "17 By faith Abraham, being tested, has offered up Isaac [James 2 example]. Even the one having received the promises was offering up his only begotten son, 18 as to whom it was said, “In Isaac your offspring will be reckoned,” b 19 having reasoned that God was able even to raise him out from the dead, from where he received him also in a simile" (<--meaning, it was as though he received him back from the dead)… so this example of his "offering up Isaac" is an example of "the TRIAL of your faith"/"testing," of it, that is, of a faith already in existence in one's life…]
 

Margo74

Active member
Jul 11, 2019
147
63
28
@dcontroversal and @UnderGrace say, "No, a true believer cannot lose their salvation."

Well, just for the record.........

I believe a true believer will NEVER lose their salvation.

But, what is the definition of a "true believer" and "salvation"?

Salvation - to be saved from God’s wrath which destroys Body and Soul; to not perish in the Lake of Fire which is the final judgment.

True Believer – a person that is recognized by God and all of heaven as one of His because the person by faith has received the Blood of Yeshua/Jesus for forgiveness of their sins and the Body of Yeshua/Jesus as the gift of Righteousness in exchange for their filthy rags of righteousness.

Also, the true believer has been given the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit seals and indwells the true believer. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth that leads, guides, comforts, instructs, corrects and empowers the true believer to be a witness of Yeshua/Jesus in the Earth.

Note: New believers can be tossed around a bit and even question if their salvation is real – this is normal.

Just keep growing in the knowledge of God’s Word and rely on the leading of the Holy Spirit. He will bear witness to your spirit that you are saved. He will teach you and give you understanding of the scriptures. Be sure to fellowship with other true believers – love and encourage each other.
I am a true believer and I love Christ and I try to do what He commanded us to do IF we love Him and that is to keep His two great commandments .. thus, I do expect to have eternal life in Heaven BUT I realise that such will only happen IF I repent when I sin and I still do sin .. I do not wish to sin and I have overcome some sins but there are still others I need to work on .. when I sin, I "choose" to do so as I give in to Satan's temptation as did Eve and she sinned .. God won't stop me from sinning and Satan has no power over me except what I give him and no one else can make me sin . . sinning is a choice I and I alone can make .. each time I sin, I do genuinely repent and, thus, I am forgiven and not punished and the repentance serves to strengthen me, too, to help me better resist the near occasion of sin .. God reads my heart and knows how sincere I am and He knows, too, how much I really try to resist temptation .. if, however, I ever choose to keep on believing in God but choose to sin and not repent, I shall be choosing to forfeit my salvation .. I can still repent and get my salvation back or I can choose to never repent and never get my salvation back and end up in the lake of fire .. the choices are mine and God will allow me my choices and the consequences
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,895
3,633
113
What do you mean by in Him there is no sin?

Is that mean after we accept Jesus we not able to commit sin?

Or ok to kill and not consider as a sin?
Hello Jackson,

As a believer in Christ, stop being worried or concerned over sin. As you learn to make right choices according to God's Will, any sin in your life will become less and less. If you do sin, it's as if you stumbled. Thank God for forgiving you and get back up again and keep walking and following Yeshua/Jesus.

God loves you and His Love covers a multitude of sins. His Word and His Holy Spirit will lead you, guide you, comfort you, teach you, instruct you, and correct you......

Focus on God's Word - read your Bible. Ask the Holy Spirit to help you understand the scriptures.

It's a loving and abiding relationship, NOT a religion full of works. Learn God's likes and dislikes, NOT rules, duties and regulations.

Enjoy and rest in His love for you. :love:(y)
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
What do you mean by in Him there is no sin?

Is that mean after we accept Jesus we not able to commit sin?

Or ok to kill and not consider as a sin?
When we are born again we receive His Holy Spirit and their is no sin in Him.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,895
3,633
113
I am a true believer and I love Christ and I try to do what He commanded us to do IF we love Him and that is to keep His two great commandments .. thus, I do expect to have eternal life in Heaven BUT I realise that such will only happen IF I repent when I sin and I still do sin .. I do not wish to sin and I have overcome some sins but there are still others I need to work on .. when I sin, I "choose" to do so as I give in to Satan's temptation as did Eve and she sinned .. God won't stop me from sinning and Satan has no power over me except what I give him and no one else can make me sin . . sinning is a choice I and I alone can make .. each time I sin, I do genuinely repent and, thus, I am forgiven and not punished and the repentance serves to strengthen me, too, to help me better resist the near occasion of sin .. God reads my heart and knows how sincere I am and He knows, too, how much I really try to resist temptation .. if, however, I ever choose to keep on believing in God but choose to sin and not repent, I shall be choosing to forfeit my salvation .. I can still repent and get my salvation back or I can choose to never repent and never get my salvation back and end up in the lake of fire .. the choices are mine and God will allow me my choices and the consequences
Oh Margo74, I believe you are a true believer. Look, just sit at Yeshua/Jesus' feet like Mary did. Don't worry so much about all the busy works. Good works come in time, fruit appears later, not immediately. Just rest "in Christ" read your Bible, ask the Holy Spirit to help you understand and make right choices that are pleasing to our Heavenly Father. He will. He does it for me all the time and He'll do it in you too!

Don't rush your growth. Enjoy the journey of growing up and maturing in Christ. We stumble over sin now. It has no dominion over us. Just get back up and keep going. It is well with you. :love:(y)
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,481
695
113
I am a true believer and I love Christ and I try to do what He commanded us to do IF we love Him and that is to keep His two great commandments .. thus, I do expect to have eternal life in Heaven BUT I realise that such will only happen IF I repent when I sin and I still do sin .. I do not wish to sin and I have overcome some sins but there are still others I need to work on .. when I sin, I "choose" to do so as I give in to Satan's temptation as did Eve and she sinned .. God won't stop me from sinning and Satan has no power over me except what I give him and no one else can make me sin . . sinning is a choice I and I alone can make .. each time I sin, I do genuinely repent and, thus, I am forgiven and not punished and the repentance serves to strengthen me, too, to help me better resist the near occasion of sin .. God reads my heart and knows how sincere I am and He knows, too, how much I really try to resist temptation .. if, however, I ever choose to keep on believing in God but choose to sin and not repent, I shall be choosing to forfeit my salvation .. I can still repent and get my salvation back or I can choose to never repent and never get my salvation back and end up in the lake of fire .. the choices are mine and God will allow me my choices and the consequences
If your salvation depends on your ability to not sin, I am sorry to say, you are doomed to hell. Gospel means “good news” I think it would be better translated as great news. You can sin less and have peace with God and the peace of God, through faith in what Jesus has done.