Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Sigh, no I get your point EG, but you miss mine. How many men of God are you going to cast dispersions on while you could carefully make your point by spelling it our far more carefully and respectfully?

Consider how delicately Jesus articulated John the Baptist's service without casting him in total darkness!

Polish it up EG, follow Christs example.
Yet you do not get it.

I grew up in your world, And I have seen the damage it did to me, and so many other people. And how many of my friends walked away from God. Because of what you are pushing.

So forgive me if I have a heart and passion to fight what is dangerous.


Jesus had no problem at all calling out the pharisees.. I have no problem either.
 
S

SpoonJuly

Guest
Sigh, no I get your point EG, but you miss mine. How many men of God are you going to cast dispersions on while you could carefully make your point by spelling it our far more carefully and respectfully?

Consider how delicately Jesus articulated John the Baptist's service without casting him in total darkness!

Polish it up EG, follow Christs example.
Jesus example---
Matthew 23:32-34
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
Jesus example---
Matthew 23:32-34




Mat 23:27 NIV "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
You will know them by their fruit of the Spirit no matter the label. There are only two Spirits in the world. Those who have the Holy Spirit will continue to display its fruits even towards their "enemies". Those who have not that spirit but a counterfeit spirit will always reveal themselves in time. That's what the Word of Truth does. The counterfeit spirit can't help it. It's a trigger.

The flesh HATES the law of God like Paul says, and can not obey it. For the law is spiritual while those still in their flesh are carnal.
If you know the Law is Spiritual how could you tell Post that wearing a poly/cotton blend is sin?

In what world is that spiritual?

And how in the wide world of sports did someone think that was a good response?


The flesh obviously doesn't hate the Law because you guys talk about it constantly.

The flesh hates what is Spiritual and that is why you focus on the Law and NOT Christ.

Galatians 3:2-3
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?


You've turned these scriptures on their head, 180 degrees, in your philosophy. Do you do it without understanding? Or do you do it on purpose?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
You, Post, brought it up
not so.

When gentile believers today wear wool and linen mixed together or cotton polyester blends, are they following the prescription in your view?
looks to me like Dan did. and then you replied, and i hadn't read Dan's post until now - but your reply talked about it. i saw your post, and replied to it, because what you wrote seemed like confusion to me, but you haven't replied to that yet. ((post #2130)). instead of replying to what i asked, you asked me about tithing. i answered you, but you didn't reply to that either. ((#2158))
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
You're arguing the semantics of what I posted.
did you even read what you wrote in post #2195? it's entirely an argument about semantics.

however i am not arguing semantics of what you posted at all - i am not even talking about what you posted on this subject, but telling you the very words Jesus, whom you wish people to call you, said:
in the law it is written that the priests profane the sabbath.
your explanation for that is pragmatism, but Christ says it is written
in the law. the law doesn't say the sabbath is set aside for pragmatism - and Christ doesn't say the sabbath doesn't apply to the priests; He says it is profaned by them according to the law.

but let's talk about what you said: that the priests are "
shown mercy" because pragmatism demands they profane the sabbath.
this is not what Christ, whose name you wish us to call you by, says at all: He says they are
guiltless and innocent in what they do. you cannot not show mercy to an innocent man, but only to a guilty one.

i am not convinces that you understand what you are reading.
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
Yet you do not get it.

I grew up in your world, And I have seen the damage it did to me, and so many other people. And how many of my friends walked away from God. Because of what you are pushing.

So forgive me if I have a heart and passion to fight what is dangerous.

Jesus had no problem at all calling out the pharisees.. I have no problem either.

Neither do I. The Pharisees were notably hipocrates who did not enter into the "kingdom" nor would they allow others! Now we have access to that Kingdom throught the Grace of God who Justifies us through Jesus! That's the gateway to the kingdom and now there is grace to "walk" into the fullness of that kingdom which brings us into a life of righteousenss! How, by putting in our hearts a love of His requirements! You call it anything that is selfless, Jesus calls it love your neighbor "as yourself". How I walk is up to the Grace of God who moment to moment makes me to stand or fall depending on my faith in His work vs mine. Do I walk humbly and foster brotherly kindness? Do I consider the will of God and the commandments of Jesus, yes. The Pharisees who you seem to like to call anyone who favors and keeps the laws of God out of a heart of love DID NOT keep the laws of God! They were hipocrates. Yet you are so jaded and angry and indoctrinated that you cannot see.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
We all need help. It's a prideful heart to think one doesn't. I just posted what Paul told Timothy, only adding one bracket and bolding other key elements. Tell me, is Paul promoting obedience to the Torah through faith in Christ, or not?
Figured 'em out yet? :cry:
Isaiah 28
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

People like this won't get it!
Oh! They've gotten the "former rain", and are content with that.
They deem themselves as "full." When, they are actually "starving!"
They see themselves as "clothed." When, they are actually "naked as a jay-bird!"


The "latter rain" to them? "Time to break out the umbrella!"
They fancy themselves as wise, in their not heeding Paul's advice to Timothy
2 Timothy 2
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
Yet? This, is what happens, within themselves, and to all that give heed unto them!
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Oh yeah! "You are FREE to speak your mind!" "AS LONG AS YOU AGREE WITH ME!"

"Don't CRITICIZE traditions of man!" "For THAT'S what shapes our destiny!"

Beware the beast! BEWARE, the FASCISTS!

Revelation 20
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
You're adding to the words that I've given you in the last post.
why do you not stand by what you really believe?

John 16:8
"And when He comes, he will convict/reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment"


...so if the spirit in you isn't doing this, then well............................................
the intent of your words is not very broadly open to interpretation. it's pretty specific, especially given the Biblical literacy of the audience here. it's clear:

  • you consider mixed fabric sinful for any Christian to wear
  • you consider that sin accounted when the Christian has read Deuteronomy 22:11
  • you consider that because the Spirit which i received does not convict me of sin, i do not have the Spirit.
  • if you have read Romans 8:9 - which, i assume?? - the obvious implication is that you consider that i belong to Satan.

i added only deduction.
can you do one thing for me, and just say what you really believe, from now on?
do you need a verse for that? here's two:


A troublemaker and a villain,
who goes about with a corrupt mouth,
who winks maliciously with his eye,
signals with his feet
and motions with his fingers,
who plots evil with deceit in his heart—
he always stirs up conflict.
Therefore disaster will overtake him in an instant;
he will suddenly be destroyed — without remedy.
(Proverbs 6:12-15)
He who winks his eye devises perversity; he who purses his lips is bent on evil.
(Proverbs 16:30)
in case you don't understand what you are reading here, the scripture is saying 'do not be like such people'
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
I don't think words like condemn are accurate representations.
i used this word with the assumption that he understands what he is reading when he looks at scripture. that he understands what he is saying when he talks about it.

upon reflection i agree, in that i do not think he understands, but only accuses me of sin, having neither the authority to condemn me himself nor the knowledge of whether i do stand condemned before the One who is able to judge.
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
Did anyone read what I wrote earlier?

There are three stages to our WALK. Sure more if you get into the details but bear with me:

Justification

Sanctification

Glorification

Which of these three occurs without Grace?

NONE!

BUT we:

Participate in Justification by acquiescing to the "Godly Sorrow" or "The Call" to Christ by REPENTING (handing in our "measure of faith card") and accepting the Grace of God for forgiveness!

Participate in the Sanctification process through the grace of God via the work of the anointing of the Holy Spirit (if we have the anointing) who gives us a new heart by FAITH! Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God! So we feed on the word of God to receive more faith to appropriate the Grace of God who effects the changes in us by the Holy Spirit.

There are countless details and admonitions throughout the Word of God that we follow instinctively and this is not legalism it is FAITH!

Participate in Glorification at the last trump. Can anyone tell me how!

Does anyone disagree?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Neither do I. The Pharisees were notably hipocrates who did not enter into the "kingdom" nor would they allow others! Now we have access to that Kingdom throught the Grace of God who Justifies us through Jesus! That's the gateway to the kingdom and now there is grace to "walk" into the fullness of that kingdom which brings us into a life of righteousenss! How, by putting in our hearts a love of His requirements! You call it anything that is selfless, Jesus calls it love your neighbor "as yourself". How I walk is up to the Grace of God who moment to moment makes me to stand or fall depending on my faith in His work vs mine. Do I walk humbly and foster brotherly kindness? Do I consider the will of God and the commandments of Jesus, yes. The Pharisees who you seem to like to call anyone who favors and keeps the laws of God out of a heart of love DID NOT keep the laws of God! They were hipocrates. Yet you are so jaded and angry and indoctrinated that you cannot see.
Sadly, in my view ur just as lost as they (the pharisees) are.

You reject and refuse to acknowledge the purpose of the law. Your trying to make it a means to which one grows and becomes christlike. Well yoru wrong.

Once again, I grew up in that world and I saw the dame it does.

Call it what you want, I call it legalism. PERIOD.
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
Sadly, in my view ur just as lost as they (the pharisees) are.

You reject and refuse to acknowledge the purpose of the law. Your trying to make it a means to which one grows and becomes christlike. Well yoru wrong.

Once again, I grew up in that world and I saw the dame it does.

Call it what you want, I call it legalism. PERIOD.

Okay then.
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
2 Timothy 3

But understand this: In the last days terrible times will come. For men will be:

- lovers of themselves
- lovers of money
- boastful
- arrogant
- abusive
- disobedient to their parents
- ungrateful
- unholy
- unloving
- unforgiving
- slanderous
- without self-control
- brutal
- without love of good
- traitorous
- reckless
- conceited
- lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God

...having a form of godliness but denying its actual power. Turn away from such as these!


They are the kind who worm their way into households and captivate vulnerable women weighed down with sins and led astray by various passions, always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.


Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these men oppose the truth. They are depraved in mind and disqualified from the faith. But they will not advance much further. For just like Jannes and Jambres, their folly will be plain to everyone.


You, however, have observed my teaching, my conduct, my purpose, my faith, my patience, my love, my endurance, my persecutions, and the sufferings that came upon me in Antioch, Iconium, and Lystra. What persecutions I endured! Yet the Lord rescued me from all of them.


Indeed, all who desire to live godly lives in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evil men and imposters go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.


But as for you, continue in the things you have learned and firmly believed, since you know from whom you have learned them. From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures {{There was no "New Testament" when Paul said this}}, which are ABLE to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.


All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.

Greetings Y,

They are all over you!

I know it's not a loving attempt to see to your salvation.

Once they label someone a pharisee your toast!

Sadly they don't fully understand what the Pharisees represented! They represented hypocrisy!

Another sadly, many people excel at hatred or anger so they tend to label things in such a way that they may practice their craft.

Jesus basically told us that the only way to "love Him" was to know and keep His commandments. And that those who "love Him" will be loved back and have fellowship with both Him and The Father!

In so many words Jesus is intimating that His commandments are a representation of Himself so any resistance to them is a resistance to Him and by proxy a resistance of the Father. John said If you have not the son you have not the Father!

Jesus also speaks of "that day" when he would confront "many" who claimed fellowship with Him and touted their many good works, but He said "I never knew you" why? He said you who work "without the law".

Ref verses:
Joh 14:21 KJV He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

1Jn 2:23 KJV Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Mat 7:22-23 KJV Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (anomia - without the Law)

In the Sanctification process the Holy Spirit "leads us into all truth" Jesus is the way the truth and the life. He also is Logos/Word of God, the I am, the giver of the Law, the same yesterday, today and tomorrow! Is it no wonder that those who can receive the leading of the Holy Spirit regarding the Laws of God, find them beautiful!?

Bless YHWH! Know and Keep as the Spirit Leads!
 
K

Karraster

Guest
:) unwilling for what reason?

Yes. For you it is wickedness. When you KNOW to do right but then do not do it, it is sin. You, Post, brought it up so you know.

"For by the law comes the KNOWLEDGE of sin."
I didn't know polyester was mentioned in the Bible, did you? ;)