Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[DeighAnn]

well, since Pharisees say to keep the Law, you say keep the Law, I say Christ followers are not nor were gentiles ever under the Law, because it is 100% ture.

and when I say " you guys " or " " them", I mean you Judeaizsers who keep trying to drag us back to Sinai.

But wasn't one of the reasons Jesus was mad at the Pharisees was because of Corbin, which kinda got rid of the 5 th commandment and gave the money to the church? Which was actually loosening the laws of Moses?

 

[DeighAnn]

But wasn't one of the reasons Jesus was mad at the Pharisees was because of Corbin, which kinda got rid of the 5 th commandment and gave the money to the church? Which was actually loosening the laws of Moses?

Weren't the gentiles grafted into the root? aren't they partakers of the same promises? Weren't they offered eternal life and when baptized become a Christian, not a Jew yet have to follow the laws of the Kingdom of God?

 

[DeighAnn]

Hey FHS,

I gently pointed out a probable error and ep9 knee-jerked an attack. Unteachable spirit possibly, spirit of contentiousness, either way he is available to talk, not listen. Sure fire way to miss the truth when it presents itself. When the adversary locks you into a doctrine that you will never accept criticism of then you will obviously never depart from that doctrine. So, if there is any error, you are locked into that error. Out of thousands of variations on Bible Versions and Christian sects what are the chances that you have chosen the "one" that is doctrinally perfect, if even any are perfect?! With those odds, a man had better opt for the guidance from the Holy Spirit. This is how Jesus declared we should receive our truth.

Bless YHWH, Know and Keep

I made up a word today, let me know what you think, be honest, if it is rude tell me, but I was going more for well here is the last post

I am sticking with "A beliefanger" but cant figure whether to go with that or "Abeliefanger"
The anger of the believer of the doctrine OSAS when they figure out it covers those without the belief just the same as it covers them who don't believe it.

Which I have to fix cause I left in a word so it should read : The anger of the believer of the doctrine of OSAS when they figure out it covers those with the belief just the same as it covers them without it.

My brain is doing cartwheels now.

 

[DeighAnn]

I made up a word today, let me know what you think, be honest, if it is rude tell me, but I was going more for well here is the last post

I am sticking with "A beliefanger" but cant figure whether to go with that or "Abeliefanger"
The anger of the believer of the doctrine OSAS when they figure out it covers those without the belief just the same as it covers them who don't believe it.

Which I have to fix cause I left in a word so it should read : The anger of the believer of the doctrine of OSAS when they figure out it covers those with the belief just the same as it covers them without it.

My brain is doing cartwheels now.

No I think it is better without followed by with.

 

[Deade]

No, I am not, but I know quantum physics is something nobody understands.

Does your church provide members with a list of effective Mitzvot, out of the original 613?

Marcelo, my advice is you want to start the spiritual application of Christ's commandments, ask yourself when and why each ordinance was established. Make an effort to keep the 10 Commandments and go from there. You will probably realize some things were established way before Sinai.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I made up a word today, let me know what you think, be honest, if it is rude tell me, but I was going more for well here is the last post

It is a rather stupid word, and so is the concept.

 

[garee]

I would approach it a little differently .we must beware of the oral traditions of men some can make the word of God without effect so that men might follow another source their own selves.

I think the Jewish oral tradition of men what they call the law of Moses in respect to 613 do's and don'ts could lead a person away from the spiritual understanding of "the law of Moses and the prophets". (sola scriptura).

It is simply saying the letter of the law. The whole bible . Not something we can divide into 613 or 10 laws as commandments for a formula we can keep . As the letter of the law it does what it is assigned to kill . . . by showing us we have no hope without the Spirt of Christ. The law of faith which comes by mixing faith the unseen eternal in what we hear. . . it heals as the work of the gospel (Hebrew 4:1-4) Together the letter of the law and the law of faith make the "perfect law of God." (Psalm 19:7-11

Eight times in the new testemtment we find the phrase "law and the prophets" or "the law of Moses and the prophets" are used to represent (sola scriptura) the reforming authority of God in any generation . The gospel made know by a new faith that comes from hearing God.

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me

Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

The Pharisees with Sadaucesss joined forces against all written in the law and the prophets (the whole Bible) .They made it to no effect through what is called a law of the fathers( plural ) usurping the law of our Father in heaven .Rather than serving the father not seen they served the oral traditions of men called fathers. They walked by sight as if the kingdom of God did come by observation .They sought to kill Paul who had become the member of another sect/denomination called the Nazarene

For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes: Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law. Acts24:5-6 (law of the father. . commandments of men).

The word of God spoken through Paul clearly exposed they had "no faith" that comes from hearing God alone ."All things written in the law of Moses and the prophets"

Paul proclaimed to them the proper manner of worship.

Worship the God (singular) of the fathers, (plural) And not upside down as the work of the counterfeiter. Worship the gods (fathers) as God singular . On one occasion Jesus called it the unthinkable.... calling the Bible God's law heresy

Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:Acts 24:13-14

Again Not God as if he was of the fathers seen like Abraham earthly inspired of the evil one....Or with Catholicism same law of the father different fathers to venerate with Peter to our Father and a succession of men called father to our father in heaven . Taking away the understanding of all things written in the law of Moses and the prophets the two witness

 

[lightbearer]

Greetings lightbearer,

Many will argue these points due to perspective. When one is into their "walk" the renewing of the heart and mind is underway! It is a blessed place as those who are underway and no longer kick against the Eternal and His will. Those however who are anchored at the beginning have not yet tasted of the "heavenly gift" and have yet to have the pleasure of your perspective.

The Law that was once antagonistic to us becomes a protagonist! No amount of words can change the perspective, only the Holy Spirit!

I would like to offer another verse to accompany yours above;

Exo 20:6 NIV but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Many, who have studied this verse see the similarities to John 14:21. there is also an interesting translation that sees the English translation like this;

Exo 20:6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love and keep my commandments.

Just a removal of the word "me" doesn't seem to diminish the sentiment at all, only enhance it.

Hey there SimpleGardener!
The context of verse 6 can be found in verse 5. Our GOD is a jealous GOD. And the Iniquity of us in bowing down to idols is seen as hate for HIM. But not bowing down to idols and having no other GOD is seen as Love for HIM. These that love him and keep HIS commandments HIS mercy endures forever.

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
(Exo 20:5-6 KJV)

 

[DeighAnn]

It is a rather stupid word, and so is the concept.

I agree. Thank you

 

[lightbearer]

Winner! Amen this shows how the New Testament writers was drawing from the books of Moses, the law and the Prophets are quoted over and over. So easy to find this nowadays, just a few clicks on the computer! So easy to prove what you are saying Lightbearer, is the truth. So easy, there is no excuse for those reading here not to see it except they be blind.

Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

https://www.kalvesmaki.com/LXX/NTChart.htm is just one source that has done the work for us in finding these quotes. Love your neighbor is also found in the Old Testament:

Leviticus 19:18 And thy hand shall not avenge thee; and thou shalt not be angry with the children of thy people; and thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself; I am the Lord.

Amen Karraster and thanks for the affirmation. Sin is transgression of the law. Love covers a multitude of sins. Through it's self sacrificing mercy we will not sin and through it's forgiveness we will not judge in vengeance and hold a grudge to those whom sin against us. For on this; the Love of God and our fellow brothers and sisters hangs, hinges, is supported all the Law and the Prophets, Gods Holy Word, His will in our lives; life.

May I ask is there any significance to your screen name? I assume it is from the Greek word for Grace, Charis.

I am thinking Grace container. I am probably wrong but I like it because it fits who we are as Christians. We are filled with God's grace to be graceful to others. Grace for grace!

 

[lightbearer]

You infer that The Word, who is Christ, is Gods Law in the heart, mind and mouth.

No God's will, His Law, His Word is in our hearts minds and mouths through Christ. Who is the Word manifested in the flesh, Jesus and our flesh, Christ in you the hope of glory.

It just shows that legalists can use the same words that Christians use but then understand them entirely differently the same way they do with scripture.

So you are calling me a legalist and telling me i am not a Christian and not saved by the blood of Christ.

 

[lightbearer]

But wasn't one of the reasons Jesus was mad at the Pharisees was because of Corbin, which kinda got rid of the 5 th commandment and gave the money to the church? Which was actually loosening the laws of Moses?

Not only that but He said, "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

And what does our Lord and Savior Jesus mean by least in heaven?

"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."
(Matt 5:19,20)

 

[lightbearer]

The Lord's Day is the Sabbath for He is Lord of the Sabbath. BTW It is God's Sabbath He created it not the Jews.

nope.
when John stated that he was " in the Sprit on the Lord's Day", he did NOT say Sabbath, it is a different greek word,

No Lord is Lord in both passages and John was in Jesus' presence when Jesus said, He was Lord of the Sabbath. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath because it is a day He created, blessed, and hallowed through GOD.

so, once again, gentiles were under the Law, the Law , including the Sabbath, was a covenant made with God and Israel at Sinai.

the Law was not a general command to everyone, it was a specific covenant made with Israel , to be kept when they reached the promised land.

No one is under anything. We are to become what they beheld through Jesus Christ our righteousness. In them they thought they had life, but they were what testified of Him. He that is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. The true Vine and we are the branches and without Him we can do nothing.

 

[SimpleGardner]

well, since Pharisees say to keep the Law, you say keep the Law, I say Christ followers are not nor were gentiles ever under the Law, because it is 100% ture.

and when I say " you guys " or " " them", I mean you Judeaizsers who keep trying to drag us back to Sinai.

Hey gb9,

wouldn't it be better said the the whole earth are under the laws of God, but only Israel, that we know of, were under "Covenant" with God, the Laws being the terms? Certainly the sacrificial and ceremonial were unique to Israel for the most part. But God Himself enumerated that it would be well for "other nations" that feared Him and kept his commandments. But the promises and the blessing of having God in their midst was to Israel alone.

 

[Grandpa]

No God's will, His Law, His Word is in our hearts minds and mouths through Christ. Who is the Word manifested in the flesh, Jesus and our flesh, Christ in you the hope of glory.

Is English your first language?

If you don't put an 'and' between 'His Will, His Law, His Word' then you imply they are equal and all the same.

So you are calling me a legalist and telling me i am not a Christian and not saved by the blood of Christ.

No, I didn't say that.

I said you don't understand words any better than you understand scripture.

Here's a little test. Do you think Christians should rest on saturdays?

 

[Marcelo]

Marcelo said (to SimpleGardner): Does your church provide members with a list of effective Mitzvot?

Marcelo, my advice is you want to start the spiritual application of Christ's commandments, ask yourself when and why each ordinance was established. Make an effort to keep the 10 Commandments and go from there. You will probably realize some things were established way before Sinai. View attachment 202144

Thanks, Deade, but I don't understand why Law keepers are so reluctant to give us a list of effective ordinances. With such a list in hand it would be easier for us to understand what you guys teach.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Hey there SimpleGardener!
The context of verse 6 can be found in verse 5. Our GOD is a jealous GOD. And the Iniquity of us in bowing down to idols is seen as hate for HIM. But not bowing down to idols and having no other GOD is seen as Love for HIM. These that love him and keep HIS commandments HIS mercy endures forever.

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
(Exo 20:5-6 KJV)

Thank You lightbearer,

For adding that context. I left that undone.

I know I hammer this point and I hear your words on it and I agree with your understanding that to "Love" God is to know and keep His commandments!

It is a sad thing I consider when I am regularly faced with thoughts of men who feel the Laws of God are to be held at a distance, practically held in contempt by those who press so hard into Grace. It takes an open heart and mind to read the Torah and allow the Holy Spirit to present it to us the way it was written, with all of its wisdom and love. There is an overeager willingness to dispatch anything and everything that has the slightest hint of legalism, little realizing that it is not the Law that is at odds with Grace, or Grace that is at odds with the Law, No, it is the condition of a mans heart! Mens hearts are constantly at the core of the matter. To shift it to Grace or the Law is a diversion.

Why do men's hearts wax cold? Matt 24:12

When men hearts wax cold, what do they practice, or is it when men practice___ do their hearts wax cold? 1 John 3:4

Why will Jesus remove men from the Kingdom in the last days? Matt 13:41

How, or by what actions did Jesus declare we could turn our hearts towards Him and love Him? John 14:21

What did Jesus prophesy would be the reason He would reject and send away "Many" in "that day"? Matt 7:21-23

It is hard for men to see the heart, outwardly men can appear very spiritually beautiful, whole, godly, but what can even someone who looks like this truly be? Matt 23:27-28

Lawlessness is the scourge we were redeemed from!

How? Seriously, how can someone who knows they were redeemed from lawlessness, to purity and good deeds/works come against men who have been transformed unto good deeds and a love for the Law? Titus 2:14

Blind Dogma is all I see at this point.

 

[Grandpa]

Thanks, Deade, but I don't understand why Law keepers are so reluctant to give us a list of effective ordinances. With such a list in hand it would be easier for us to understand what you guys teach.

They seem to like to quote this verse a lot, Marcelo;

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Then they point out that heaven and earth are still here.

So then they apparently believe the Christian is under ALL the ordinances.

But then they say use "common sense" for the ordinances that we don't have to keep anymore.


Well, good luck with that little rabbit trail.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Is English your first language?

If you don't put an 'and' between 'His Will, His Law, His Word' then you imply they are equal and all the same.



No, I didn't say that.

I said you don't understand words any better than you understand scripture.

Here's a little test. Do you think Christians should rest on saturdays?

Shouldn't "saturdays" be capitalized "Saturdays"?

It's an English language thing, i think.

 

[Grandpa]

Thank You lightbearer,

For adding that context. I left that undone.

I know I hammer this point and I hear your words on it and I agree with your understanding that to "Love" God is to know and keep His commandments!

It is a sad thing I consider when I am regularly faced with thoughts of men who feel the Laws of God are to be held at a distance, practically held in contempt by those who press so hard into Grace. It takes an open heart and mind to read the Torah and allow the Holy Spirit to present it to us the way it was written, with all of its wisdom and love. There is an overeager willingness to dispatch anything and everything that has the slightest hint of legalism, little realizing that it is not the Law that is at odds with Grace, or Grace that is at odds with the Law, No, it is the condition of a mans heart! Mens hearts are constantly at the core of the matter. To shift it to Grace or the Law is a diversion.

Why do men's hearts wax cold? Matt 24:12

When men hearts wax cold, what do they practice, or is it when men practice___ do their hearts wax cold? 1 John 3:4

Why will Jesus remove men from the Kingdom in the last days? Matt 13:41

How, or by what actions did Jesus declare we could turn our hearts towards Him and love Him? John 14:21

What did Jesus prophesy would be the reason He would reject and send away "Many" in "that day"? Matt 7:21-23

It is hard for men to see the heart, outwardly men can appear very spiritually beautiful, whole, godly, but what can even someone who looks like this truly be? Matt 23:27-28

Lawlessness is the scourge we were redeemed from!

How? Seriously, how can someone who knows they were redeemed from lawlessness, to purity and good deeds/works come against men who have been transformed unto good deeds and a love for the Law? Titus 2:14

Blind Dogma is all I see at this point.

Blind Dogma... Good word. I completely agree.

Romans 8:3-5
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.


If you think it is your love for the law that has made you redeemed from lawlessness you need to go back to the drawing board. A person who breaks the law constantly is lawless. Whether they love the law or not.

I wonder if your 'blind dogma' will let you?

Sometimes this stuff cracks me up. Sometimes I just get sad that it may not be as obvious to other people as it is to me.