Luke 17 - Where are they taken?
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I disagree, and posted both the following quote (as well as its preceding two [or so] paragraphs, not shown here) as the explanation to what 2 Peter 3 is referring to in this verse:
[quoting Gaebelein; but see also the two paragraphs at link that precede this part, for further explanation]
"What, then, does the passage mean? It is very simple after all. He preached by the Spirit, or in the Spirit, that is, the same Spirit who raised Him from among the dead, the Holy Spirit of life and power, to the spirits who are now in prison. But when the preaching occurred they were not in prison. And who were they? All the wicked dead for 4,000 years? The text makes it clear that they are a special class of people. They were living in the days of Noah. It is incomprehensible how some of these teachers, misinterpreting this passage, can teach that it includes all the lost, or angels which fell, or the righteous dead. The Spirit of God preached to them, that is, the Spirit who quickened the body of Christ, the same Spirit preached to the generation of unbelievers in the days of Noah. The time of the preaching, then, did not occur between the death and resurrection of Christ, but it took place in Noah’s day. Christ was not personally, or corporeally present, just as He is not present in person in this age when the gospel is preached; His Spirit is here.
"So was He present by His Spirit in the days of Noah. It is written: “My Spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years” (Genesis 6:3). His Spirit was then on the earth. In long-suffering God was waiting for one hundred and twenty years while the ark was preparing. His Spirit preached then. But He needed an instrument. The instrument was Noah; in him was the Spirit of Christ and as the preacher of righteousness (2Peter 2:5) he delivered the warning message of an impending judgment to those about him, who did not heed the message, passed on in disobedience, were swept away by the deluge and are now the spirits in prison. As the Spirit of Christ was in the prophets (1Peter 1:11) testifying beforehand of the suffering of Christ and the glory that should follow, so the Spirit of Christ preached through Noah. This is the meaning of this passage, and any other is faulty and unscriptural."
--Gaebelein, Commentary on 2 Peter 3, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/gaebelein/1_peter/3.htm
[end quoting; bold and underline mine]
[quoting Gaebelein; but see also the two paragraphs at link that precede this part, for further explanation]
"What, then, does the passage mean? It is very simple after all. He preached by the Spirit, or in the Spirit, that is, the same Spirit who raised Him from among the dead, the Holy Spirit of life and power, to the spirits who are now in prison. But when the preaching occurred they were not in prison. And who were they? All the wicked dead for 4,000 years? The text makes it clear that they are a special class of people. They were living in the days of Noah. It is incomprehensible how some of these teachers, misinterpreting this passage, can teach that it includes all the lost, or angels which fell, or the righteous dead. The Spirit of God preached to them, that is, the Spirit who quickened the body of Christ, the same Spirit preached to the generation of unbelievers in the days of Noah. The time of the preaching, then, did not occur between the death and resurrection of Christ, but it took place in Noah’s day. Christ was not personally, or corporeally present, just as He is not present in person in this age when the gospel is preached; His Spirit is here.
"So was He present by His Spirit in the days of Noah. It is written: “My Spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years” (Genesis 6:3). His Spirit was then on the earth. In long-suffering God was waiting for one hundred and twenty years while the ark was preparing. His Spirit preached then. But He needed an instrument. The instrument was Noah; in him was the Spirit of Christ and as the preacher of righteousness (2Peter 2:5) he delivered the warning message of an impending judgment to those about him, who did not heed the message, passed on in disobedience, were swept away by the deluge and are now the spirits in prison. As the Spirit of Christ was in the prophets (1Peter 1:11) testifying beforehand of the suffering of Christ and the glory that should follow, so the Spirit of Christ preached through Noah. This is the meaning of this passage, and any other is faulty and unscriptural."
--Gaebelein, Commentary on 2 Peter 3, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/gaebelein/1_peter/3.htm
[end quoting; bold and underline mine]
Not in respect to his corrupted body of death (what the eyes se). . it was kept from corruption 3 days but never became the power by which we could believe. No such thing as holiness of the corrupted flesh and blood which the Son of man said of his own corrupted flesh and blood. It does not profit because it cannot .
Sinful flesh was needed to do what the letter of the law as that which kills could not .Being used as a outward "demonstration" of the unseen work as a promise to Joel .He will pour out his unseen Spirit on the corrupted flesh of Jesus .God is not an man as us. Never could be. Mankind has a beginning. Supernatural God no beginning or end of days. .
Romans 8:3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: . . . . . . . Not by the flesh but by the unseen Spirit of faith.
The power to believe is not reckoned after or in respect to the flesh of Jesus .No such thing as holiness of the flesh .We walk by faith the unseen power of the gospel
Romans 1:3-5 King James Version (KJV)Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Sinful flesh was needed to do what the letter of the law as that which kills could not .Being used as a outward "demonstration" of the unseen work as a promise to Joel .He will pour out his unseen Spirit on the corrupted flesh of Jesus .God is not an man as us. Never could be. Mankind has a beginning. Supernatural God no beginning or end of days. .
Romans 8:3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: . . . . . . . Not by the flesh but by the unseen Spirit of faith.
The power to believe is not reckoned after or in respect to the flesh of Jesus .No such thing as holiness of the flesh .We walk by faith the unseen power of the gospel
Romans 1:3-5 King James Version (KJV)Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Special class of people, yes I agree. He preached to those pre-Noah.
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Christ was quickened by the Spirit and BY WHICH (being made alive by the Spirit) HE went and preached to the spirits in prison. The HE is Christ, Christ went and preached to the spirits in prison AFTER he had been made alive after his death by the Spirit.
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Christ was quickened by the Spirit and BY WHICH (being made alive by the Spirit) HE went and preached to the spirits in prison. The HE is Christ, Christ went and preached to the spirits in prison AFTER he had been made alive after his death by the Spirit.
1Pe 3:18:19 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
It would seem that part of the key is understanding how the word preached is used.
For instance Catholisicim in order to promote the after death work (limbo purgatory) that must be done because only this Mary entity received the fulness of God's grace . The rest a unknow remnant and must suffer for a unknown amount of time or severity.
They must say that verse proves their private interpretation .. We preach Christ. . . the seed, planting it and watering it with the doctrines of God. But if any growth it is not after us. The preaching was the opening of the graves rise . Like with Lazarus rise.
They had already believed the gospel the ressurection/rapture the gates are opened and will remain open till the last day.
It would seem that part of the key is understanding how the word preached is used.
For instance Catholisicim in order to promote the after death work (limbo purgatory) that must be done because only this Mary entity received the fulness of God's grace . The rest a unknow remnant and must suffer for a unknown amount of time or severity.
They must say that verse proves their private interpretation .. We preach Christ. . . the seed, planting it and watering it with the doctrines of God. But if any growth it is not after us. The preaching was the opening of the graves rise . Like with Lazarus rise.
They had already believed the gospel the ressurection/rapture the gates are opened and will remain open till the last day.
Joseph foreshadows Christ's preaching in the prison.
Joseph was cast into a pit with NO WATER by his brethren. He then went to the prison where he interpreted the dreams of the baker and the butler.
Gen 40:13 Yet within three days shall Pharaoh lift up thine head, and restore thee unto thy place: and thou shalt deliver Pharaoh's cup into his hand, after the former manner when thou wast his butler.
The baker (representing those who received the message) was restored to his position within THREE DAYS.
Gen 40:19 Yet within three days shall Pharaoh lift up thy head from off thee, and shall hang thee on a tree; and the birds shall eat thy flesh from off thee.
The butler (representing those that did not receive the message) hanged on a tree (CURSED is any man who hangs on a tree) within THREE DAYS.
We know from this foreshadowing that Christ went to the prison for THREE DAYS and preached the message of God to the prisoners. We also know that the ones who received the message were RESTORED and those who did not receive the message were JUDGED and PUNISHED.
Joseph was cast into a pit with NO WATER by his brethren. He then went to the prison where he interpreted the dreams of the baker and the butler.
Gen 40:13 Yet within three days shall Pharaoh lift up thine head, and restore thee unto thy place: and thou shalt deliver Pharaoh's cup into his hand, after the former manner when thou wast his butler.
The baker (representing those who received the message) was restored to his position within THREE DAYS.
Gen 40:19 Yet within three days shall Pharaoh lift up thy head from off thee, and shall hang thee on a tree; and the birds shall eat thy flesh from off thee.
The butler (representing those that did not receive the message) hanged on a tree (CURSED is any man who hangs on a tree) within THREE DAYS.
We know from this foreshadowing that Christ went to the prison for THREE DAYS and preached the message of God to the prisoners. We also know that the ones who received the message were RESTORED and those who did not receive the message were JUDGED and PUNISHED.
I present the other two paragraphs, for the readers' consideration (coupled with the other portion of the quote I'd put earlier):
[quoting Gaebelein]
"The chief question is: Did our Lord go to Hades in a disembodied state? In fact, all depends on the question of what is the true meaning of the sentence, “quickened by the Spirit.” Now, according to the interpretations of the men who teach that the Lord visited Hades, the spirits in prison, during the interval between His death and the morning of the third day, He descended into these regions while His dead body was still in the grave. Therefore, these teachers claim that His human spirit was quickened, which necessitates that the spirit which the dying Christ commended into the Father’s hands had also died. This is not only incorrect doctrine, but it is an unsound and evil doctrine. Was the holy humanity of our Lord, body, soul and spirit dead? A thousands times No! Only His body died; that is the only part of Him which could die. The text makes this clear: “He was put to death in flesh,” that is, His body. There could be no quickening of His spirit, for His spirit was alive. Furthermore, the word quickening, as we learn from Ephesians 1:20 and Ephesians 2:5-6, by comparing the two passages, applies to His physical resurrection, it is the quickening of His body. To teach that the Lord Jesus was made alive before His resurrection is unscriptural. The “quickened by the Spirit” means the raising up of His body. His human spirit needed no quickening; it was His body and only His body. And the Spirit who did the quickening is not His own spirit, that is, His human spirit, but the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:11 speaks of the Spirit as raising Jesus from among the dead.
"We have shown that it was an impossibility that Christ was in any way quickened while His body was not yet raised, hence a visit to Hades is positively excluded between His death and resurrection. There is only another alternative. If it is true that He descended into these regions, then it must have been after His resurrection. But that is equally untenable. The so-called “Apostle’s Creed” puts the descent between His death and resurrection and all the other theorists follow this view. We have shown what the passage does not mean. It cannot mean a visit of the disembodied Christ to Hades, for it speaks of the quickening by the Spirit, and that means His physical resurrection."
--Gaebelein, Commentary on 2 Peter 3 [source: BibleHub]
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Disagree.
[quoting Gaebelein]
"The chief question is: Did our Lord go to Hades in a disembodied state? In fact, all depends on the question of what is the true meaning of the sentence, “quickened by the Spirit.” Now, according to the interpretations of the men who teach that the Lord visited Hades, the spirits in prison, during the interval between His death and the morning of the third day, He descended into these regions while His dead body was still in the grave. Therefore, these teachers claim that His human spirit was quickened, which necessitates that the spirit which the dying Christ commended into the Father’s hands had also died. This is not only incorrect doctrine, but it is an unsound and evil doctrine. Was the holy humanity of our Lord, body, soul and spirit dead? A thousands times No! Only His body died; that is the only part of Him which could die. The text makes this clear: “He was put to death in flesh,” that is, His body. There could be no quickening of His spirit, for His spirit was alive. Furthermore, the word quickening, as we learn from Ephesians 1:20 and Ephesians 2:5-6, by comparing the two passages, applies to His physical resurrection, it is the quickening of His body. To teach that the Lord Jesus was made alive before His resurrection is unscriptural. The “quickened by the Spirit” means the raising up of His body. His human spirit needed no quickening; it was His body and only His body. And the Spirit who did the quickening is not His own spirit, that is, His human spirit, but the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:11 speaks of the Spirit as raising Jesus from among the dead.
"We have shown that it was an impossibility that Christ was in any way quickened while His body was not yet raised, hence a visit to Hades is positively excluded between His death and resurrection. There is only another alternative. If it is true that He descended into these regions, then it must have been after His resurrection. But that is equally untenable. The so-called “Apostle’s Creed” puts the descent between His death and resurrection and all the other theorists follow this view. We have shown what the passage does not mean. It cannot mean a visit of the disembodied Christ to Hades, for it speaks of the quickening by the Spirit, and that means His physical resurrection."
--Gaebelein, Commentary on 2 Peter 3 [source: BibleHub]
_____________
Disagree.
What if Hades is a state rather than a place?
Jesus did come down into the grave. Aka state of physical death. "Abode of the dead" can be a state. One may abide in Christ, does this mean that Christ is a physical location? Even though Christ manifested also physically, and graves also exist as physical manifestations.
Interpreting these concepts as simplistic literal "areas" reminds me more of Dante's Inferno or ancient pagan writers.
It's adding preconceived notions to the Scriptures, which might take away from what are we able to see.
I mean I am surely also at fault. When we are bombarded with these imaginations since childhood.
Jesus did come down into the grave. Aka state of physical death. "Abode of the dead" can be a state. One may abide in Christ, does this mean that Christ is a physical location? Even though Christ manifested also physically, and graves also exist as physical manifestations.
Interpreting these concepts as simplistic literal "areas" reminds me more of Dante's Inferno or ancient pagan writers.
It's adding preconceived notions to the Scriptures, which might take away from what are we able to see.
I mean I am surely also at fault. When we are bombarded with these imaginations since childhood.
This does not state before-after relationship, or that it was performed only during those 3 days.
Unless I'm missing something, it just states that by the same Spirit that raised Him from the dead, he went and preached to the spirits in prison. I looked at Strong's concordance, there is after in NIV but I believe it's coming from church traditions. I looked in my native language, direct translation also renders it to mean "by which" like KJV (in spite of Orthodox church tradition here).
Did Jesus wait for the timetable to start forgiving sins, since the Scripture says "not by the blood of sheep and goats" so how did they have their sins forgiven in the Old testament? Does this mean their sins were not actually being forgiven and they died in their sins? Or that Jesus, the Word, only spoke to the oppressed, or certain oppressed during 3 days?
Or was Jesus always the slain Lamb and King of Kings eternally? If Jesus is eternal, then He was always the slain Lamb. Present, past, future.
Psalms 146:7 Which executeth judgment for the oppressed: which giveth food to the hungry. The LORD looseth the prisoners:
Psalms 79:11 Let the sighing of the prisoner come before thee; according to the greatness of thy power preserve thou those that are appointed to die; --->(in their sins)
Jesus' body was raised, by His physical resurrection, in 3 days, yes. However, the redemption (loosing from the bondage to sin) of His whole Body of believers might span throughout millennia, from the beginning of time.
Genesis 25:8 Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, (...); and was gathered to his people.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Unless I'm missing something, it just states that by the same Spirit that raised Him from the dead, he went and preached to the spirits in prison. I looked at Strong's concordance, there is after in NIV but I believe it's coming from church traditions. I looked in my native language, direct translation also renders it to mean "by which" like KJV (in spite of Orthodox church tradition here).
Did Jesus wait for the timetable to start forgiving sins, since the Scripture says "not by the blood of sheep and goats" so how did they have their sins forgiven in the Old testament? Does this mean their sins were not actually being forgiven and they died in their sins? Or that Jesus, the Word, only spoke to the oppressed, or certain oppressed during 3 days?
Or was Jesus always the slain Lamb and King of Kings eternally? If Jesus is eternal, then He was always the slain Lamb. Present, past, future.
Psalms 146:7 Which executeth judgment for the oppressed: which giveth food to the hungry. The LORD looseth the prisoners:
Psalms 79:11 Let the sighing of the prisoner come before thee; according to the greatness of thy power preserve thou those that are appointed to die; --->(in their sins)
Jesus' body was raised, by His physical resurrection, in 3 days, yes. However, the redemption (loosing from the bondage to sin) of His whole Body of believers might span throughout millennia, from the beginning of time.
Genesis 25:8 Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, (...); and was gathered to his people.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Oops, I meant "not by the blood of bulls and goats" 
I am studying now about the gathering, but it will take me a while to reply to this post of yours because I want to look at some things in the whole Bible.
Will write later, hope I am not intrusive on the thread. I am aware that a lot of people think differently.
I am studying now about the gathering, but it will take me a while to reply to this post of yours because I want to look at some things in the whole Bible.
Will write later, hope I am not intrusive on the thread. I am aware that a lot of people think differently.
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How are you making this connection to Matthew 25?
I can't see anywhere in Matthew 25 where he is talking about gathering them out of hell there. Why would Jesus be preaching, telling others to get ready for something that they would have no part in (if he was talking about going to Hell and getting the ones that were already dead)? To me Matthew 24 and 25 is all about the end time and judgment. I have heard a few say that Matthew 24 has already happened, but I don't think that it has. The judgement has not come yet and I can't find anywhere in scripture where it has.
I can't see anywhere in Matthew 25 where he is talking about gathering them out of hell there. Why would Jesus be preaching, telling others to get ready for something that they would have no part in (if he was talking about going to Hell and getting the ones that were already dead)? To me Matthew 24 and 25 is all about the end time and judgment. I have heard a few say that Matthew 24 has already happened, but I don't think that it has. The judgement has not come yet and I can't find anywhere in scripture where it has.