1+1+1=ONE

[gospelofchrist]

People have asked is the Trinity real? How can God be three people? When he said in Deut 6:4...The Lord is God, The Lord is One.
Well the word One refers to Gods uniqueness and not to his being Alone. As most of you know the Old Testament was written in Hebrew. The English word "one" is translated into two words in the biblical Hebrew. The first is "YAHID" (unique, only son) gen.22:2
The second is "EHAD"(those united, becoming of one flesh) gen.2:24
...The Lord is God, the Lord is One. Translates and means that God is not solitary, even though He is unique. It suggests that God is united, or more than one person...


4 Hints in the Old Testament

1. Gen 1:26_ And God (singular) said, “Let US (Plural) make man in OUR (Plural) likeness…
2. Gen 3:22_ And the Lord God (singular) said” Behold, the man is become as on of US (plural) to know good and evil…
3. Gen 11:7_ Come let US (plural) go down, and there confound their language…
4. Isa 6:8_ Also I heard the of the Lord (singular) saying, “Whom shall I (singular) send and who will go for US (plural)?

God is Love… 1John 4:8 & 16. Before creation there was an eternity when God existed as Love. God could not have been Love if He was solitary…For who would He Love?

Truths of the Trinity in Scriptures

1. Gen 1:1_ In the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth.
2. Heb 1:2_ Has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, BY WHOM HE MADE THE WORLD.
3. John 1:1-3; 14_ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made. _ And the word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld the glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
4. Eph 4:30_ And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby you are sealed to the day of redemption.
5. Acts 5:3-4_ But peter said “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back part of the price of the land? While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own power? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to man, but to God.
6. Matt 1:23_ Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a Son, and they shall call his name IMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US.



Jesus could not have become human without the Holy Spirit. Matt. 1:18-20. Jesus had to pray to God. And God could not have created everything without his Son Jesus. Heb. 1:2.



I believe that the Trinity is real and by reading this I hope you do to. But everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion.

-GODBLESS!!!-

 

[Scotth1960]

People have asked is the Trinity real? How can God be three people? When he said in Deut 6:4...The Lord is God, The Lord is One.
Well the word One refers to Gods uniqueness and not to his being Alone. As most of you know the Old Testament was written in Hebrew. The English word "one" is translated into two words in the biblical Hebrew. The first is "YAHID" (unique, only son) gen.22:2
The second is "EHAD"(those united, becoming of one flesh) gen.2:24
...The Lord is God, the Lord is One. Translates and means that God is not solitary, even though He is unique. It suggests that God is united, or more than one person...


4 Hints in the Old Testament

1. Gen 1:26_ And God (singular) said, “Let US(Plural) make man in OUR (Plural) likeness…
2. Gen 3:22_ And the Lord God (singular) said” Behold, the man is become as on of US (plural) to know good and evil…
3. Gen 11:7_ Come let US (plural) go down, and there confound their language…
4. Isa 6:8_ Also I heard the of the Lord (singular) saying, “Whom shall I (singular) send and who will go for US (plural)?

God is Love… 1John 4:8 & 16. Before creation there was an eternity when God existed as Love. God could not have been Love if He was solitary…For who would He Love?

Truths of the Trinity in Scriptures

1. Gen 1:1_ In the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth.
2. Heb 1:2_ Has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, BY WHOM HE MADE THE WORLD.
3. John 1:1-3; 14_ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made. _ And the word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld the glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
4. Eph 4:30_ And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby you are sealed to the day of redemption.
5. Acts 5:3-4_ But peter said “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back part of the price of the land? While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own power? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to man, but to God.
6. Matt 1:23_ Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a Son, and they shall call his name IMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US.



Jesus could not have become human without the Holy Spirit. Matt. 1:18-20. Jesus had to pray to God. And God could not have created everything without his Son Jesus. Heb. 1:2.



I believe that the Trinity is real and by reading this I hope you do to. But everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion.

-GODBLESS!!!-

Friends, God isn't a mathematical formula. What Scripture says that He is that?
And, if He were, He would be mathematically perfect. So the correct ANALOGY (and that is all that it is) mathematically would be "One X One X One = One", use a X (times) multiplication sign, and not a + (addition) sign. The Persons of the Trinity are all One God, so there is no addition, nothing "more than God", and no "multiple Gods" in them. Even the multiplication analogy may fail, as it's only a human attempt to defend what cannot be rationally understood. People who believe everything must be perfectly rational are rationalists. They believe, without reason, in the perfect power of human reason. Go figure. Any way, God is one. Deuteronomy and Isaiah 44:6 say so. Matthew 28:19 says God is three persons. So we must believe both truths, for both are true. To deny that is to deny the true God of the Bible, who is equally in the OT and the NT. It's just made clearer in the NT than it is in the OT. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[Scotth1960]

People have asked is the Trinity real? How can God be three people?
Friend, God isn't three people. He is three persons. Angels are persons, and they aren't people. They aren't flesh and blood. God is a spirit. Only Christ's body is human, is one of the people. Take care. In Erie Scott


When he said in Deut 6:4...The Lord is God, The Lord is One.
Well the word One refers to Gods uniqueness and not to his being Alone. As most of you know the Old Testament was written in Hebrew. The English word "one" is translated into two words in the biblical Hebrew. The first is "YAHID" (unique, only son) gen.22:2
The second is "EHAD"(those united, becoming of one flesh) gen.2:24
...The Lord is God, the Lord is One. Translates and means that God is not solitary, even though He is unique. It suggests that God is united, or more than one person...


4 Hints in the Old Testament

1. Gen 1:26_ And God (singular) said, “Let US(Plural) make man in OUR (Plural) likeness…
2. Gen 3:22_ And the Lord God (singular) said” Behold, the man is become as on of US (plural) to know good and evil…
3. Gen 11:7_ Come let US (plural) go down, and there confound their language…
4. Isa 6:8_ Also I heard the of the Lord (singular) saying, “Whom shall I (singular) send and who will go for US (plural)?

God is Love… 1John 4:8 & 16. Before creation there was an eternity when God existed as Love. God could not have been Love if He was solitary…For who would He Love?

Truths of the Trinity in Scriptures

1. Gen 1:1_ In the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth.
2. Heb 1:2_ Has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, BY WHOM HE MADE THE WORLD.
3. John 1:1-3; 14_ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made. _ And the word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld the glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
4. Eph 4:30_ And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby you are sealed to the day of redemption.
5. Acts 5:3-4_ But peter said “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back part of the price of the land? While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own power? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to man, but to God.
6. Matt 1:23_ Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a Son, and they shall call his name IMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US.



Jesus could not have become human without the Holy Spirit. Matt. 1:18-20. Jesus had to pray to God. And God could not have created everything without his Son Jesus. Heb. 1:2.



I believe that the Trinity is real and by reading this I hope you do to. But everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion.

-GODBLESS!!!

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Yawn.

More blah-blah inference and total ignorance of language, culture, history, and scripture.

Tell the ancient Hebrews about their "plural" God from pronoun constructs.

Deity of F-S-HS isn't default Trinity.

Opinions are irrelevant.

Trinitarian mathematics is as bad as their erroneous doctrine.

 

[loveasaweapon]

Gospelofchrist--

Very good points for such a young person. Keep it up.

 

[Scotth1960]

Yawn.

More blah-blah inference and total ignorance of language, culture, history, and scripture.

Tell the ancient Hebrews about their "plural" God from pronoun constructs.

Deity of F-S-HS isn't default Trinity.

Opinions are irrelevant.

Trinitarian mathematics is as bad as their erroneous doctrine.

You still haven't said what Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are. If not persons, what are they?
You offer no alternative explanation. Only silence. You haven't produced a Scripture that proves the term persons is erroneous.

 

[Scotth1960]

Yawn.

More blah-blah inference and total ignorance of language, culture, history, and scripture.

Tell the ancient Hebrews about their "plural" God from pronoun constructs.

Deity of F-S-HS isn't default Trinity.

Opinions are irrelevant.

Trinitarian mathematics is as bad as their erroneous doctrine.

No. God is uni-plural; Tri-une. Three in one. Don't you know the difference. God is not a plurality. He is a Trinity. He is One. Only One God. But not only one persons. He is Three Persons.

 

[Scotth1960]

Gospelofchrist--

Very good points for such a young person. Keep it up.

When I say God is uni-plural, this means plural -Unity. God is only One God. But He is 3 persons, a plurality of 3 persons. Three persons only. He is not a plurality of gods; there is only one God. No one can understand the Trinity. But Matthew 28:19 indicates 3 persons. In Erie PA Scott Harrington

 

[Scotth1960]

Yawn.

More blah-blah inference and total ignorance of language, culture, history, and scripture.

Tell the ancient Hebrews about their "plural" God from pronoun constructs.

Deity of F-S-HS isn't default Trinity.

Opinions are irrelevant.
That is the only thing you've said , among the other things you've been saying, that made any sense.
The Creed of Constantinople I of 381 AD is not human opinion. It is the Faith once delivered unto the saints (Jude 3). In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington


Trinitarian mathematics is as bad as their erroneous doctrine.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

You still haven't said what Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are. If not persons, what are they?
You offer no alternative explanation. Only silence. You haven't produced a Scripture that proves the term persons is erroneous.

You still haven't said that Tradition could have erred about ONE extra-biblical word... person(s). I'm not going to present the precious truth and have you revert back to Tradition over Scripture.

You offer no substantiation that proves the positive. Only indoctrination. You haven't produces a Scripture that proves the term persons is appropriate.

You constantly want ME to prove the negative, which is absurd.

I'm ready with a thorough exegesis.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

No. God is uni-plural; Tri-une. Three in one. Don't you know the difference. God is not a plurality. He is a Trinity. He is One. Only One God. But not only one persons. He is Three Persons.

Oh... I know the difference, alright. God isn't schizophrenic. Present scripture that God is three persons. You sound like a Protestant Baptist, constantly repeating something with no solid scriptural basis.

 

[Scotth1960]

[quote=PneumaPsucheSoma;402247]You still haven't said that Tradition could have erred about ONE extra-biblical word... person(s). I'm not going to present the precious truth and have you revert back to Tradition over Scripture.

You offer no substantiation that proves the positive. Only indoctrination. You haven't produces a Scripture that proves the term persons is appropriate.

You constantly want ME to prove the negative, which is absurd.

I'm ready with a thorough exegesis.[/quote]

Okay. If you're ready, where's the thorough exegesis. And by that, I mean, every usage in the NT of the words
1 Father
2 Son
3 Holy Spirit
How's that for starters?
Are you ready for the challenge?
If these are not persons, produce one Scripture that says what they are.
Take care. In Erie Scott

 

[Scotth1960]

[quote=PneumaPsucheSoma;402248]Oh... I know the difference, alright. God isn't schizophrenic. Present scripture that God is three persons. You sound like a Protestant Baptist, constantly repeating something with no solid scriptural basis.[/quote]
That's funny! You sound like some kind of Baptist yourself. You always demand a sola Scriptura argument for persons. Since the word persons isn't in Scripture, you insist on some equivalent of sola Scriptura before you will believe Father, Son, and Spirit are persons. Go figure. Sounds like Sola Scriptura to me. Me, while I refer to Matthew 28:19, I realize that the word persons isn't in the text. Neither is the teaching that these three can't be persons. So, we all rely on Tradition to determine who/what the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are. It depends on which Tradition comes from God: Church tradition: one, holy, catholic and apostolic church or traditions of men, which includes Oneness, Sabellianism, or your tradition that says "Oneness is closer to truth" than the Trinity. Whatever you call that belief. If that belief wasn't taught in the first 1000 years of Christianity, it is very likely it is innovation, or, it is definitely innovation. There is nothing new under the sun in Christian doctrine. They were all in basic unity except for the two major schism of monophysitism around 500 AD and of filioquism around 1000 AD. Other than that, all other heresies and schisms were defeated by the one holy catholic and apostolic church.
In Erie PA Scott

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

That is the only thing you've said , among the other things you've been saying, that made any sense.
The Creed of Constantinople I of 381 AD is not human opinion. It is the Faith once delivered unto the saints (Jude 3).

Jude 3 came long before Trinity formulation and Councils, so that's misapplied. Compromised, coerced group opinion of 318 people IS still human opinion.

All you have to do is prove the historical and scriptural positive of your doctrine, instead of irrationally demanding proof of a negative. Prove God wasn't something besides 3 persons.

If it was Apostolic doctrinal succession, provided historical and scriptural validation beyond supposition and perception.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

When I say God is uni-plural, this means plural -Unity. God is only One God. But He is 3 persons, a plurality of 3 persons. Three persons only. He is not a plurality of gods; there is only one God. No one can understand the Trinity. But Matthew 28:19 indicates 3 persons. In Erie PA Scott Harrington

I've looked over and over and over at Matt. 28:19. I see F-S-HS. I can't seem to find "person(s)" in the text anywhere.

Trinity is a mental gymnastics nightmare. Prove the F-S-HS are separate discrete persons.

You're even more dishonest than most Trinitarians. ONE scripture that unequivocally shows 3 persons. ONE.

Good grief.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

[quote=PneumaPsucheSoma;402247]You still haven't said that Tradition could have erred about ONE extra-biblical word... person(s). I'm not going to present the precious truth and have you revert back to Tradition over Scripture.

You offer no substantiation that proves the positive. Only indoctrination. You haven't produces a Scripture that proves the term persons is appropriate.

You constantly want ME to prove the negative, which is absurd.

I'm ready with a thorough exegesis.

Okay. If you're ready, where's the thorough exegesis. And by that, I mean, every usage in the NT of the words
1 Father
2 Son
3 Holy Spirit
How's that for starters?
Are you ready for the challenge?
If these are not persons, produce one Scripture that says what they are.
Take care. In Erie Scott
[/QUOTE]

See?! More evasion and shifting of burden-of-proof.

My exegesis is awaiting your confession of possible error in Tradition.

Wow! That's quite a double standard from someone who just repeats one non-proof-text and a bunch of tradition. I've asked you for ONE scripture that says God is 3 persons. Take your own challenge.

I'm awaiting your confession of possible Traditional error.

 

[Scotth1960]

[quote=PneumaPsucheSoma;402264]I've looked over and over and over at Matt. 28:19. I see F-S-HS. I can't seem to find "person(s)" in the text anywhere.

Trinity is a mental gymnastics nightmare. Prove the F-S-HS are separate discrete persons.

You're even more dishonest than most Trinitarians. ONE scripture that unequivocally shows 3 persons. ONE.

Good grief.[/quote]
Matthew 28:19. Of course, you just read persons out of this verse. And really, why should anyone believe they aren't persons because you say they aren't. That's begging the question. Since this really isn't possible to establish by quoting Scriptures at each other, it really is a question of Traditions (see 2 Thessalonians 2:15). Trinity is there in the first 381 years of the church. You haven't show documentation for your view from early Christianity. If God wanted your view to survive, it would have survived and been passed down to us from the early church. There should be several teachers that taught your "Oneness is closer" view, whatever that means. There are more than 318 people in Church history who believe in the Trinity doctrine.
It isn't logical to believe
The Father is the Son and is the Holy Spirit
The Son is the Father and is the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is the Father and is the Son
Those confusion and blurring of the distinctions between the persons has already been dealt with in Church history
Sabellius was already defeated. What remains to be defeated is not Sabellianism, the Son is the Father error, but semi-Sabellianism. Filioquism. In short, Roman Catholicism and its Lutheran/Presbyterian/ Anglican, etc. denominations. All those Protestants who say "and the Son". Not all Protestants do say this, and some agree with the EOC that the Holy Spirit "proceeds from the Father alone".
In Erie Scott PS I looked up definitions of the Trinity long ago. The dictionary didn't say anything about mental gymnastics. Truth is Scriptural, not rational. Trying to make everything rational is one of the mental diseases that Jehovah's Witnesses and other anti-Trinitarian rationalists suffer from. Scripture also teaches everlasting fire (hell), and some people find that view irrational. But it is Scriptural. Christ said so, and few people may be saved. Although God does want all to be saved (2 Peter 3:9). Surely, it's up to God, and no body knows how many or how few will actually be saved.
We can only pray that Christ will be merciful upon us. No human being deserves to be saved. But God is merciful.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

[quote=PneumaPsucheSoma;402248]Oh... I know the difference, alright. God isn't schizophrenic. Present scripture that God is three persons. You sound like a Protestant Baptist, constantly repeating something with no solid scriptural basis.

That's funny! You sound like some kind of Baptist yourself. You always demand a sola Scriptura argument for persons. Since the word persons isn't in Scripture, you insist on some equivalent of sola Scriptura before you will believe Father, Son, and Spirit are persons. Go figure. Sounds like Sola Scriptura to me. Me, while I refer to Matthew 28:19, I realize that the word persons isn't in the text. Neither is the teaching that these three can't be persons. So, we all rely on Tradition to determine who/what the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are. It depends on which Tradition comes from God: Church tradition: one, holy, catholic and apostolic church or traditions of men, which includes Oneness, Sabellianism, or your tradition that says "Oneness is closer to truth" than the Trinity. Whatever you call that belief. If that belief wasn't taught in the first 1000 years of Christianity, it is very likely it is innovation, or, it is definitely innovation. There is nothing new under the sun in Christian doctrine. They were all in basic unity except for the two major schism of monophysitism around 500 AD and of filioquism around 1000 AD. Other than that, all other heresies and schisms were defeated by the one holy catholic and apostolic church.
In Erie PA Scott[/QUOTE]

The Church was frought with controversy from Constantinian rule forward. What's funny is, even there ARE only two schisms... there ARE two schisms.

You're Sola Traditione and Anti Scriptura. I'm not Sola Scriptura.

The text says sonrthing ELSE. It's substitution, not just insertion.

Tradition doesn't trump The Word... except for Orthodoxers and Catholicks.

 

[Scotth1960]

[/b]

Okay. If you're ready, where's the thorough exegesis. And by that, I mean, every usage in the NT of the words
1 Father
2 Son
3 Holy Spirit
How's that for starters?
Are you ready for the challenge?
If these are not persons, produce one Scripture that says what they are.
Take care. In Erie Scott

See?! More evasion and shifting of burden-of-proof.

My exegesis is awaiting your confession of possible error in Tradition.

Wow! That's quite a double standard from someone who just repeats one non-proof-text

and a bunch of tradition. I've asked you for ONE scripture that says God is 3 persons. Take

your own challenge.

I'm awaiting your confession of possible Traditional error.[/quote]


I am awaiting for you to confess that you are really Sola Scriptura. Since you expect me to produce a Scripture that says persons. I can't. And you can't produce one that says "no persons". So all we can go by to interpret the NT is somebody's TRADITION (traditions), in the sense of both written and spoken oral traditions (as mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:15).
Possible error in Tradition? Which traditions are spoken of in 2 Thessalonians 2:15? Which traditions after the NT was completed agree with the tradition of the NT. Can these traditions that are extra-biblical err? Where does 2 Thessalonians 2:15 point us? Which Christians after the NT was completed should we read? Clement? Ignatius? Polycarp?
What about them: weren't they Trinitarians? God bless you. Scott in Erie

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Matthew 28:19. Of course, you just read persons out of this verse.

Moronic and dishonest. Persons isn't THERE to read out. You read it IN. And you're too dishonest to see that.

And really, why should anyone believe they aren't persons because you say they aren't. That's begging the question.

The inverse back at you. More prove-the-negative rubbish.

Since this really isn't possible to establish by quoting Scriptures at each other, it really is a question of Traditions (see 2 Thessalonians 2:15).

My point all along. 2 Thess. is as inapplicable as Jude 1:3.

Trinity is there in the first 381 years of the church. You haven't show documentation for your view from early Christianity. If God wanted your view to survive, it would have survived and been passed down to us from the early church. There should be several teachers that taught your "Oneness is closer" view, whatever that means. There are more than 318 people in Church history who believe in the Trinity doctrine.
It isn't logical to believe.

More Orthodox blather and propaganda. Tradition over Scripture is your view. Sola Traditione. If God hadn't wanted Filioquism to survive, it wouldn't exist. See how stupid your argument is?

The Father is the Son and is the Holy Spirit
The Son is the Father and is the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is the Father and is the Son
Those confusion and blurring of the distinctions between the persons has already been dealt with in Church history
Sabellius was already defeated. What remains to be defeated is not Sabellianism, the Son is the Father error, but semi-Sabellianism. Filioquism. In short, Roman Catholicism and its Lutheran/Presbyterian/ Anglican, etc. denominations. All those Protestants who say "and the Son". Not all Protestants do say this, and some agree with the EOC that the Holy Spirit "proceeds from the Father alone".

More dishonesty. I affirmed much, and you have repeatedly ignored it and accused me of the opposite.

I looked up definitions of the Trinity long ago. The dictionary didn't say anything about mental gymnastics. Truth is Scriptural, not rational. Trying to make everything rational is one of the mental diseases that Jehovah's Witnesses and other anti-Trinitarian rationalists suffer from. Scripture also teaches everlasting fire (hell), and some people find that view irrational. But it is Scriptural. Christ said so, and few people may be saved. Although God does want all to be saved (2 Peter 3:9). Surely, it's up to God, and no body knows how many or how few will actually be saved.
We can only pray that Christ will be merciful upon us. No human being deserves to be saved. But God is merciful.[/QUOTE]

I see. Tradition and dictionaries over Scripture.