Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[Lightskin]

John 14
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

No distinction/discernment between the two, eh?

I'll agree, that honoring the Son, honors the Father!
To the point where the Son "overshadows" He who sent Him?
I ain't buyin' what yer pushin'!

“I and my Father are one.” John 10:30
Read it and weep, sweetie; I’m merely quoting Jesus. Too bad you can’t handle what He’s pushing, hence your problem with God’s grace afforded to everyone who puts their faith in Jesus.

 

[NayborBear]

“I and my Father are one.” John 10:30
Read it and weep, sweetie; I’m merely quoting Jesus. Too bad you can’t handle what He’s pushing, hence your problem with God’s grace afforded to everyone who puts their faith in Jesus.

.....and there I go! Quoting Mark Twain again!
I guess true love is blind, after all, eh?
Jude
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Dan_473]

I understand the frustrating part man!
Just keep "putting it out there!"
Something I have learned from my time in CC, is that there are people in here reading and watching, although, they may not "participate?" That "see/feel" things "differently", then "the majority."
And, there are "believers" at different "stages" of development and growth.

Most in here that do participate believe "saved by grace through faith" and "walking in love", is enough. And, that's as much "healing" as they wish, or that they are willing to be healed. As "love" covers a multitude of sin! Even the "sin/s" of not even recognizing Mosaic Law, nor even the 10 commandments, in some cases.
Nor, any reason to!
(I could go on and on. And shall! ....But not in this post. )

Just keep "putting it out there!"

Hi NayborBear,

While you are in the process of
putting it out there,
Why not talk about the details of your daily life, as in how you put the law into practice?

Matthew 5: 16. Even so let your light be shining before men, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father in heaven.

For example, if the situation arose where your brother died without leaving a son, would you marry his widow?

 

[RickStudies]

My comments in ( )

Hey Rick. Actually it is a work in progress, that's progress is solely dependent upon the receiver's reception.

( Thx for putting up something worth addressing. Fun for a change)

He is Mediator of a better covenant which has been established (upon) better promises.
A work in progress, that's progress is solely dependent upon the receiver's reception.

( The question is: was the New Covenant in effect at the time it is established. Answer is no, Israel hasn`t inherited the promised land etc. etc. Unless you want to invent some replacement theology and say God won`t keep His promise which is an idea refuted by Jeremiah 31.)

Here in verse 8:10 in the repeating of the covenant the writer does something interesting. The giving of the laws into the mind is in present tense and the writing of the Laws on the heart is future.

( Both appear to be present tense in my King James. the phrase "after those days" along with verse 11 make it a future event.)

Then when the writer repeats the covenant again he places the entire Covenant in the presence tense through the surrounding context.

For by one offering He has perfected in perpetuity the ones being sanctified. And the Holy Spirit witnesses to us also. For after having said before, "This is the covenant which I will covenant to them after those days, says the Lord: Giving My Laws on their hearts, and I will write them on their minds;"
Heb 10:14-16 LITV

The ones being sanctified. In that respect the grammar of the text dictates the Holy Ghost is a witness us also.

How? Having said before, "Giving My Laws on their hearts, and I will write them on their minds;"

In this instance however it should also be noted the writer of Hebrews through the Holy Spirit switched things around a little compared to how he cited the covenant in 8:10. This time the Giving of the Laws in the hearts is present tense and the writing of the Laws on the minds is in the future.

( The administrator of a will is entitled to be paid and has access to some of an estates resources for buisiness purposes. Likewise as ministers of the New Testament we have access to the spiritual benefit of the covenant and the earnest payment of the Holy Spirit. The covenant appears in present tense because the contract has closed. It is in the hands of Jesus as He waits to recieve the estate.
But it hasn`t been implemented yet, i.e. the writing of the laws in the mind will erase the Law of sin that is in our minds at the present time. One of the covenant promises is the removal of the Adam nature. There`s much more to the New Covenant then just getting saved. That`s just the spiritual benefit we recieve now. Consider this passage from the book of Micah,

1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.)


Here is something else. The New Covenant was spoken to the children of Israel from the beginning in Deut. 30:14. Just worded differently. It was actually suppose to be part of the Old but due to our stiff necks and hard hearts it was not received by the majority hence Jeremiah giving it as a New.

( Deut. 30:14 isn`t the new covenant. Mouth confession and believing in the heart has been the key to walking with God throughout the ages. Paul quotes this verse in the book of Romans and it is very much Old Testament Law, instruction on how to keep it.)

 

[NayborBear]

Hi NayborBear,

While you are in the process of
putting it out there,
Why not talk about the details of your daily life, as in how you put the law into practice?

Matthew 5: 16. Even so let your light be shining before men, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father in heaven.

For example, if the situation arose where your brother died without leaving a son, would you marry his widow?

That's 1 thing I don't need worry about, as both of my brothers are still alive and have sons of their own!

Even should this not be the case? This would be just one of the multitude of sins that Love covers!

Same thing goes for the wearing of your cotton/polyester "blends", you had asked me previously.

Did you note the word "multitude of sin/s?"

I am not under the "illusion/delusion" that the word "multitude" implies, insinuates, or means every sin!

And, neither should you be!

Nor, am I under the "illusion/delusion" that Jesus abolished "sacrifices" either!

1 Peter 2
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

 

[posthuman]

To the point where the Son "overshadows" He who sent Him?
I ain't buyin' what yer pushin'!

i do not think that @Lightskin is saying the Son is greater than the Father by quoting the Son, "I and my Father are one"

John 14:28 is certainly true, and is also certainly true that the Son and the Father are one, and it is also certainly true that the Son is God manifest in the flesh and His name is called Everlasting Father - just as it is certainly true that the Son is sent by the Father and the Father says that it is He Himself who they pierce.
it is the mystery of His person, and anthropomorphizing Him is probably not the best way to go about understanding who He is - He speaks to us in human terms even as He came in human flesh, but He is not human, but He is God. the Son is the exact representation of the Father projected into humanity; this is like an infinite dimensional object being projected onto 4-space so we can see it. much information is collapsed and hidden in so doing -- just like when you draw a 3-d object on a 2-d piece of paper, you cannot see all sides of it, because you've only got a representation of it, and just because what you see is 2-d doesn't mean the actual object represented is 2-d.

 

[posthuman]

Romans 8
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

No man taketh it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself.
I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.
(John 10:18)
​

this isn't scripture pitted against scripture; both are perfectly true.

 

[RickStudies]

My comments in ( )

Hey Rick. Actually it is a work in progress, that's progress is solely dependent upon the receiver's reception.

( Thx for putting up something worth addressing. Fun for a change)

He is Mediator of a better covenant which has been established (upon) better promises.
A work in progress, that's progress is solely dependent upon the receiver's reception.

( The question is: was the New Covenant in effect at the time it is established. Answer is no, Israel hasn`t inherited the promised land etc. etc. Unless you want to invent some replacement theology and say God won`t keep His promise which is an idea refuted by Jeremiah 31.)

Here in verse 8:10 in the repeating of the covenant the writer does something interesting. The giving of the laws into the mind is in present tense and the writing of the Laws on the heart is future.

( Both appear to be present tense in my King James. the phrase "after those days" along with verse 11 make it a future event.)

Then when the writer repeats the covenant again he places the entire Covenant in the presence tense through the surrounding context.

For by one offering He has perfected in perpetuity the ones being sanctified. And the Holy Spirit witnesses to us also. For after having said before, "This is the covenant which I will covenant to them after those days, says the Lord: Giving My Laws on their hearts, and I will write them on their minds;"
Heb 10:14-16 LITV

The ones being sanctified. In that respect the grammar of the text dictates the Holy Ghost is a witness us also.

How? Having said before, "Giving My Laws on their hearts, and I will write them on their minds;"

In this instance however it should also be noted the writer of Hebrews through the Holy Spirit switched things around a little compared to how he cited the covenant in 8:10. This time the Giving of the Laws in the hearts is present tense and the writing of the Laws on the minds is in the future.

( The administrator of a will is entitled to be paid and has access to some of an estates resources for buisiness purposes. Likewise as ministers of the New Testament we have access to the spiritual benefit of the covenant and the earnest payment of the Holy Spirit. The covenant appears in present tense because the contract has closed. It is in the hands of Jesus as He waits to recieve the estate.
But it hasn`t been implemented yet, i.e. the writing of the laws in the mind will erase the Law of sin that is in our minds at the present time. One of the covenant promises is the removal of the Adam nature. There`s much more to the New Covenant then just getting saved. That`s just the spiritual benefit we recieve now. Consider this passage from the book of Micah,

1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.)


Here is something else. The New Covenant was spoken to the children of Israel from the beginning in Deut. 30:14. Just worded differently. It was actually suppose to be part of the Old but due to our stiff necks and hard hearts it was not received by the majority hence Jeremiah giving it as a New.

( Deut. 30:14 isn`t the new covenant. Mouth confession and believing in the heart has been the key to walking with God throughout the ages. Paul quotes this verse in the book of Romans and it is very much Old Testament Law, instruction on how to keep it.)

@ lightbearer This message post #7104 was in response to yours earlier

 

[RickStudies]

“I and my Father are one.” John 10:30
Read it and weep, sweetie; I’m merely quoting Jesus. Too bad you can’t handle what He’s pushing, hence your problem with God’s grace afforded to everyone who puts their faith in Jesus.

It`s neat to see who the church skipping crowd is around here.

 

[posthuman]

.....and there I go! Quoting Mark Twain again!
I guess true love is blind, after all, eh?
Jude
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

is it right to accuse someone of being an ungodly denier of the Lord turning grace into lasciviousness just because they quote Christ Himself saying He & the Father are one?

is that really justified?

for people who are supposed to be considering themselves least among everyone, walking by the Spirit in love, we certainly are a group that throws out accusations and bitterness toward each other freely.



i know i'm also guilty; and i'm constantly rebuking myself over it and trying to bring my passions under control to speak the truth in gentleness and love. there certainly is a time for everything.

 

[DeighAnn]

• He said He came to call sinners ((Mark 2:17))

• He said He came to do the will of the Father ((John 6:38))

• He said He came to bring light to those who believe ((John 12:46))

• He said He came to bear witness to the truth ((John 18:37))

• He said He came to give eternal life to whosoever would eat ((John 6:51))

• He said He came to proclaim the gospel, to set free captives and open the eyes of the blind, to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor ((Luke 4:18-19))

• He said He came for judgement ((John 9:39-41))

• He said He came to serve, and to give His life as a ransom ((Mark 10:45))

• He said He came to seek and to save the lost ((Luke 19:9-10))

• He said He came to bring a sword ((Matthew 10:34))

• He said He came that whoever drinks will never thirst again ((John 4:13-14))

Luke 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day

Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Luke 24:48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

 

[Dan_473]

That's 1 thing I don't need worry about, as both of my brothers are still alive and have sons of their own!

Even should this not be the case? This would be just one of the multitude of sins that Love covers!

Same thing goes for the wearing of your cotton/polyester "blends", you had asked me previously.

Did you note the word "multitude of sin/s?"

I am not under the "illusion/delusion" that the word "multitude" implies, insinuates, or means every sin!

And, neither should you be!

Nor, am I under the "illusion/delusion" that Jesus abolished "sacrifices" either!

1 Peter 2
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

If I am understanding you right, you are saying that you would not marry your brother's widow, and that you would wear wool and linen mixed together, that you would knowingly and willfully break those two commandments, and just expect to be forgiven afterward.

If that's what you're saying, myself I would certainly take a different approach.

 

[DeighAnn]

A portion of the chapter is about the age to come. This is not fulfilled.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

And when Jesus was reading from Isaiah in the temple and only read the 1st half of the verse because He could not read "the day of vengeance" because it was yet future then as it is yet future now.

 

[DeighAnn]

If I am understanding you right, you are saying that you would not marry your brother's widow, and that you would wear wool and linen mixed together, that you would knowingly and willfully break those two commandments, and just expect to be forgiven afterward.

If that's what you're saying, myself I would certainly take a different approach.

Where is it Jesus said that was a law?

 

[DeighAnn]

If I can cut in to say, that's an interesting thought.

It's possible, but I don't think the jubilee applies to any land other than Israel's.

Also, if I remember correctly, the land has to be claimed by its original owner in time else it stays in the possession of the new owner.

I'll have to reread that section to confirm this.

Wouldn't this have ended at John? or was this part of the Abrahamic Covenant? Yes, I am just being lazy.

 

[Dan_473]

Where is it Jesus said that was a law?

I don't know that Jesus stated that these two commandments were law.

He does talk about the law of marrying your brother's widow towards the end of his life on earth when he is talking with the Sadducees.

Both of those commandments are part of the law of Moses.

 

[RickStudies]

how do you get 'primary purpose' ?
He said He came to do this, yes, but did He say 'this is my primary purpose' ?

• He said He came to call sinners ((Mark 2:17))
• He said He came to do the will of the Father ((John 6:38))
• He said He came to bring light to those who believe ((John 12:46))
• He said He came to bear witness to the truth ((John 18:37))
• He said He came to give eternal life to whosoever would eat ((John 6:51))
• He said He came to proclaim the gospel, to set free captives and open the eyes of the blind, to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor ((Luke 4:18-19))
• He said He came for judgement ((John 9:39-41))
• He said He came to serve, and to give His life as a ransom ((Mark 10:45))
• He said He came to seek and to save the lost ((Luke 19:9-10))
• He said He came to bring a sword ((Matthew 10:34))
• He said He came that whoever drinks will never thirst again ((John 4:13-14))

of which of these does He say, 'my stated primary purpose' ?
you sure you're not zeroing in on one, to the exclusion of the others?
how did you pick Matthew 5:16-17 out as "number one primary reason" ?

i tend to think, taking all these sayings together ((and this list isn't exclusive)), they coalesce into one purpose, which is His work, which none of them by themselves are adequate to fully convey -- that they're all saying the same thing, but that thing is so great, so sublime, that individual descriptions of it only give a glimpse.
we need to see them all, together, to illuminate the truth -- which, if i had to pick one, based on what the scripture actually says, this is probably the closest to 'my primary purpose' -- speaking to Pilate He says:

You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice. ​

(John 18:37)​

​

​

"I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. "

Well, he said it the reason he had come, that and to deliver the words the Father gave Him to speak.

Jesus fulfilled over 300 prophecies while he was here.

 

[DeighAnn]

You are twisting my words. Jesus fulfilled the Law. He didn`t fulfill all the prophecies which is why there must be another age on this earth before "new earth".

Its called the millennium

 

[posthuman]

"I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. "

Well, he said it the reason he had come, that and to deliver the words the Father gave Him to speak.

Jesus fulfilled over 300 prophecies while he was here.

you totally skipped my question.

He said He came to do a lot of things. how do you justify your statement that one of those "I came to.." statements is the primary purpose ?

i provided you with what i thought was most justifiable, when He told Pilate, 'for this very purpose' -- to bear witness to the truth.

 

[DeighAnn]

I think this is what Jesus meant when he said he came to fulfill the law and the prophets.

Any chance He came to walk and obey the laws perfectly (show us how it the law looked walking around in the flesh) and to fulfill the prophecies that needed to be fulfilled for that "age"?