Not By Works

KJV1611 · Sep 17, 2019

Well you asked a question, so I will answer it and be done

A. 1 John 3:9 is not teaching sinless perfection. There is no one who never sins, except Jesus of course

B. The word “commit” in the phrase committeth sin is in the present tense in koine greek

C. The function of the verb in Greek is primarily to indicate type of action, not always time of action, like in english

C. The way the present tense is often used is to indicate an action that is continual, or iterative/habitual, repetitive, and progressive.

D. That is why most translators translate the phrase “ the one who is born of God does not practice or continue in sin. It is talking about habitual sinning as a way of life

E. A believer sins,but his practice is righteousness, not sin. That is his life is not marked by continual, habitual sin, or if it is, he does not remain in that state. Eventually the grace of God pulls him out of the mud

The born again man in me does not sin, he can not sin because he is born of God.

UnderGrace · Sep 17, 2019

dcontroversal said:

By this do you mean the possibility of tares becoming wheat?

Macabeus · Sep 17, 2019

KJV1611 said:

You have two natures, NOT two persons.

You are the born again man in 1 John, because there are not two persons that are you, there is one. Albeit, you have two natures.

Two natures one person that is you. You are not two persons any more than Christ is, who also had two natures in one person.

Macabeus · Sep 17, 2019

dcontroversal said:

Where does it say God saved us before the foundation of the world?

Macabeus · Sep 17, 2019

dcontroversal said:

If we were saved before the foundation of the world, why does the scripture say “believe, and you will be saved?”

Do a word study on the word saved and count how many times it is used in the subjunctive mood and then how many times in the future tense. Ie if you believe, you will be saved

We were chosen before time but saved in time. God chose to do it that way

KJV1611 · Sep 17, 2019

Macabeus said:

I have no idea what any of that means. I don't know what Nestorian is and I have no idea what it's christological heresy is.

I base what I believe on the bible. All TRUE BELIEVERS have Christ formed in them.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

I don't think you have any idea of what Paul travailing in birth means. I also don't think that you know what Christ in us even means.

You are clueless about the bible and you're accusing me of heresy lol. SMH

KJV1611 · Sep 17, 2019

Macabeus said:

Eph_1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

You're welcome DC.

Macabeus · Sep 17, 2019

Macabeus said:

KJV1611 said:

You are not two persons, you are one person with two natures. Don’t say “the born again man in me does not sin while I am sinning. That is precisely what John was refuting in his first epistle

You took what he is refuting and turned it into what he endorses. Scary!

I suggest you read 1 John and let it say what it says and do not read your(or someone else’s ideas into it)

Macabeus · Sep 17, 2019

KJV1611 said:

Follow what you say to it’s logical conclusion. If we are saved before the foundation, why did Jesus have to come for us. Why did we have to hear the gospel?

If we were saved before the foundation of the world, then unconditional election is true, limited atonement is true, unconditional election is true, irresistible grace is true, perserverance of the saints is true You have to accept TULIP then. A twisted deformed version of it because of you two person antinomianism, which of course, they reject.

. Chosen before time, saved in time

KJV1611 · Sep 17, 2019

Macabeus said:

You are not two persons, you are one person with two natures. Don’t say “the born again man in me does not sin while I am sinning. That is precisely what John was refuting in his first epistle

You took what he is refuting and turned it into what he endorses. Scary!

I suggest you read 1 John and let it say what it says and do not read your(or someone else’s ideas into it)

I'm out friend, have a good one.

Macabeus · Sep 17, 2019

KJV1611 said:

I am not two Macs. I am one Mac with two natures. See ya.

Saved before the foundation of the world is uber duver hyper Calvinism. See post 107,549. Not even Calvinists go that far.

Hevosmies · Sep 17, 2019

dcontroversal said:

Man.... You live in too good of a neighborhood! A GOLF COURSE?

The guy that just moved 3 floors upstairs to me was JUST RELEASED from prison for MURDA'

Seriously though: You got a GREAT POINT that I always make. LIVING MORAL LIVES DONT SAVE NOBODY. Jehovah's witnesses live great lives, as do mormons, buddhists and maybe even GoldenStateWarrior fans! (Last one very unlikely).

What makes the difference then between a morally upright mormon and a born again believer? FAITH! Without FAITH its impossible to please GOD!

Hevosmies · Sep 17, 2019

Macabeus said:

ONCE AGAAIN ITS OOOOOOOOON!

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

VCO · Sep 17, 2019

KJV1611 said:

Okay, Lets put that theory to the TEST.

1 Peter 2:13-17 (KJV)
13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.
17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king. [.For USA Citizens that would be President Donald Trump.]

One mile over the Posted Speed Limit, even accidentally = You SINNED.

You litter, even a cigarette butt = You SINNED.

Failure to Pick Up Your DOG POOP or NO LEASH = You SINNED.

Parking Violation for any reason = You SINNED.

Jaywalking or Texting in a Crosswalk = You SINNED.

SHALL I GO ON, There are lots more ordinances of man, that I have not covered YET ? ? ?

Or are you ready to admit you are still a SINNER ? ? ?

KJV1611 · Sep 17, 2019

VCO said:

Okay, Lets put that theory to the TEST.

1 Peter 2:13-17 (KJV)
13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.
17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king. [.For USA Citizens that would be President Donald Trump.]

View attachment 204195
One mile over the Posted Speed Limit, even accidentally = You SINNED.

View attachment 204196
You litter, even a cigarette butt = You SINNED.

View attachment 204197 View attachment 204198
Failure to Pick Up Your DOG POOP or NO LEASH = You SINNED.

View attachment 204199 View attachment 204200
Parking Violation for any reason = You SINNED.

Jaywalking or Texting in a Crosswalk = You SINNED.

SHALL I GO ON, There are lots more ordinances of man, that I have not covered YET ? ? ?

Or are you ready to admit you are still a SINNER ? ? ?

Apparently you didn't read my post AT ALL.

SoulWeaver · Sep 17, 2019

KJV1611 said:

This had me rolling for some reason...

oh. goodness. HAHAHAHAHAH.

VCO · Sep 18, 2019

KJV1611 said:

Yes I DID, I do not agree with your Terminology definitions. Man is made up of Body, Soul, and Spirit, every man. The spirit was DEAD, due to the inherited SIN we got from ADAM. When the Holy Spirit came in, He the Holy Spirit Birthed our once dead Human Spirit, into Eternal Life. IT IS NOT A SEPARATE ENTITY, IT IS STILL PART OF THE HUMAN BEING. So if the BODY and the MIND of Flesh SINS, WE MUST CONFESS IT AND OWN UP TO IT AS A FAILURE ON OUR PART. You are trying to evade OWNING UP TO THE SIN YOU COMMIT or OMIT.

VCO · Sep 18, 2019

UnderGrace said:

That is CORRECT, it is almost like the TARE and Wheat is almost indistinguishable during the early stages of growth. YES, a mature Christian will bare spiritual fruit, while the mature Tare will not have a wheat head, just a weed head. STILL we do not try to throw them out of the Church, unless they are trying to take over or spewing FALSE TEACHING in the Church. We leave them be where the GOOD TEACHING of the word of GOD IS. Do we know there are PHONIES in our Churches ? ? ? YES, but GOD can take a phony and turn him or her into a Born Again WHEAT BELIEVER. I used to be one of those PHONIES. I would daydream threw MOST of the sermons, and sometimes even count tiles in the Ceiling. I was not Born Again when I surrendered to the LORD, mourning over my utterly sinful lifestyle, until after my third attempt at Suicide the last week of 1977 at 29 years of age.

VCO · Sep 18, 2019

KJV1611 said:

I know what you're doing Mac. You're changing the meaning of the words because you don't like what it says. Basically you are trying to tell me that you know more about Koine Greek than all of the translators of the KJV, NIV, NASB and ESV knew. I don't think so friend.

Leave the words alone, believe what they say and you will be blessed by them. That verse tells us EXACTLY what the "born of God" man is... it is the man formed in us by the incorruptible word of God.... And it is IMPOSSIBLE for that man to sin.

1 John 3:9 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 3:9 New International Version (NIV)
9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

1 John 3:9 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
9 No one who is [a]born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is [b]born of God.

1 John 3:9 English Standard Version (ESV)
9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's[a] seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

1 John 3:9 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
9 Those who have been born of God do not sin, because God’s seed abides in them;[a] they cannot sin, because they have been born of God.

That is NOT SAYING WE ARE SINLESS, The NASB, ESV comes closer to what it really means. IT IS SAYING BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN WILL NOT CONTINUE TO HABITUALLY SIN, or PRACTICE Sinning (as in what you PRACTICE, you will get BETTER AT IT). YES, you need to own up to your sins ever time.

blue_ladybug · Sep 18, 2019

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