Why do so many Christians end up in Hell?

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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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the body of Christ, the born again church, The church that teaches the true gospel of Christ, which leads people to true salvation.

If your asking what denomination, any denomination which does this is part of the true church.
Amen! The true church is the body of Christ (Colossians 1:18,24) which is made up of all born again Christians/believers and is not simply a church building with a name stamped on it.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Amen! The true church is the body of Christ (Colossians 1:18,24) which is made up of all born again Christians/believers and is not simply a church building with a name stamped on it.
hey someone understood what I meant..lol
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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I clarified for you. Post #377. I just wanted to know what kind of churches you like. No big deal if you want to keep yourself in the closet.
Only one Church , not churches , we are the Church of Christ...xox...
The body of Christ , the children of God Amen , so be it...xox...
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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My remark if you read it, was the falling away in 2 Thesalonians 2. Which in the Bible always means apostasy, abandonment of belief.
One of the reasons some Christians will go to hell. Apparantly something in the future will cause many Christians to stop believing.
I made some posts in the past about "he apostasia" [2Th2:3] (doubt I could do a successful Search to find those, lol)... but I do not believe it means what you suggest ^ there. :)
 
Dec 9, 2011
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Not at all. Just got sidetracked by his unwillingness to identify what churches meet his approval.

My remark if you read it, was the falling away in 2 Thesalonians 2. Which in the Bible always means apostasy, abandonment of belief.
One of the reasons some Christians will go to hell. Apparantly something in the future will cause many Christians to stop believing.
But the Bible says that those who are born again are born of Incorruptible seed and It also says that those who have their spirits made perfect will seek to purify themselves even as they are pure.
In other words their spirits were made perfect and then they will present their bodies a living sacrifice renewing their minds to be like the new creation they have become.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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I made some posts in the past about "he apostasia" [2Th2:3] (doubt I could do a successful Search to find those, lol)... but I do not believe it means what you suggest ^ there. :)
Okay, I found a couple of them... :D


[quoting Kenneth S Wuest: "Kenneth S. Wuest is a member of the Faculty of the Moody Bible Institute, Chicago, Illinois, and author of numerous books on New Testament Greek"]

Kenneth S Wuest - Bibliotheca Sacra, BSac 114:453 (Jan 57) -

"The answer to these questions will only be convincing to the reader if it is based upon the rules of Biblical exegesis. [...<snip>...] That interpretation which is based upon the above rules is to be regarded as correct until it can be shown by the reapplication of the same rules that an error of human judgment has crept in.
"There is such a thing, therefore, as a scientific method of studying the Word. The student who follows the rules of an experiment in chemistry brings that experiment to a successful conclusion. The student who does not ends up with an explosion. Just so, the student who conducts his study of the Bible along the scientific lines noted above arrives at the correct interpretation, and the student who does not at the wrong one. The exegetical method the student uses in answering the question with reference to the time of the rapture will determine whether he believes in a pretribulational or a posttribulational rapture.
[...]

"The words "a falling away" are the Authorized Version rendering of apostasia. The verbal form afistamai from which it comes is present middle of afisthmi, the root verb, which we will study. The simple verb Jisthmi [histemi] in its intransitive sense means "to stand," the prefixed preposition means "off, away from," and the compound verb, "to stand off from." The word does not mean "to fall." The Greeks had a word for that, piptw. Afisthmi, in its various uses, is reported by Thayer as follows: "to make stand off, cause to withdraw, to stand off, stand aloof, to desert, to withdraw from one"; in contexts where a defection from the faith is in view, it means "to fall away, become faithless." The verb is rendered by the translators of the Authorized Version "to depart," in Luke 2:32; Luke 4:13; Luke 13:27; Acts 12:10; Acts 15:38; Acts 19:9; Acts 22:29; 2 Corinthians 12:8; 1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Timothy 2:19; Hebrews 3:12. [...]
[...]

"The writer [I think he refers to himself, here] is well aware of the fact that apostasia was used at times both in classical and koine Greek in the sense of a defection, a revolt in a religious sense, a rebellion against God, and of the act of apostasy. Liddell and Scott in their classical lexicon give the above as the first definition of the word. Moulton and Milligan quote a papyrus fragment where the word means "a rebel." But these are acquired meanings of the word gotten from the context in which it is used, not the original, basic, literal meaning, and should not be imposed upon the word when the context does not qualify the word by these meanings, as in the case of our Thessalonians passage, where the context in which apostasia is embedded does not refer to a defection from the truth but to the rapture of the church. The fact that our word [our modern English word] "apostasy" means a defection from the truth is entirely beside the point since we do not interpret Scripture upon the basis of a transliterated word to which a certain meaning has been given, but upon the basis of what the Greek word mean to the first century reader. The fact that Paul in 1 Timothy 4:1 uses this verb in the words "some shall depart from the faith" and finds it necessary to qualify its meaning by the phrase "from the faith" indicates that the word itself has no such connotation. The translators of the Authorized Version did not translate the word, but offered their interpretation of it. They should have translated it and allowed the student to interpret it in its context.

"With the translation of the word before us, the next step is to ascertain from the context that to which this departure refers. We note the presence of the Greek definite article before apostasia, of which the translation takes no notice. A Greek word is definite in itself, and when the article is used the exegete must pay particular attention to it. "The basal function of the article is to point out individual identity. It does more than mark the object as definitely conceived, for a substantive in Greek is definite without the article." This departure, whatever it is, is a particular one, one differentiated from all others. Another function of the article is "to denote previous reference." Here the article points out an object the identity of which is defined by some previous reference made to it in the context." Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:1 has just spoken of the coming of the Lord. This coming is defined by the words "our gathering together unto him," not as the second advent, but as the rapture. The Greek word rendered "and" can also be translated "even," and the translation reads, "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, even our gathering together unto him." [<--this just means that the two phrases in verse 1 both speak of our Rapture... correct]

"The article before apostasia defines that word by pointing to "the gathering together unto him" as that departure. This article determines the context which defines apostasia. The translators took the context of 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 as deciding the significance of the word, but they went too far afield, not grasping the function of the definite article preceding apostasia which points back to the rapture of 2 Thessalonians 2:1, not ahead to the refusal to believe the truth of 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12. The article is all-important here, as in many instances of its use in the Greek New Testament. In 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, Paul had given these saints teaching on the rapture, and the Greek article here points to that which was well known to both the reader and the writer, which is another use of the Greek definite article. Thus, the departure of the church from earth to heaven must precede the great tribulation period [I would say, "must precede the [7-yr] tribulation period" to be more specific (for 'GREAT tribulation' refers only to the latter half of it); Wuest, here, means "before the entire trib period" not merely before the second half of it]. [...]"

--Kenneth S Wuest, "The Rapture--Precisely When?", Bibliotheca Sacra, BSac 114:453 (Jan 57), p.60; "The Rapture--Precisely When?" - Kenneth S Wuest

[ www. galaxie . com/article/bsac114-453-05 (no spaces)]

[end quoting; bold, underline, and bracketed inserts mine]
 

TheDivineWatermark

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[and this one]

Kenneth Wuest, a Greek scholar from Moody Bible Institute added the following contextual support to taking apostasia as a physical departure:

"But then hee apostasia of which Paul is speaking, precedes the revelation of Antichrist in his true identity, and is to katechon that which holds back his revelation (2:6). The hee apostasia, therefore, cannot be either a general apostasy in Christendom which does precede the coming of Antichrist, nor can it be the particular apostasy which is the result of his activities in making himself the alone object of worship. Furthermore, that which holds back his revelation (vs. 3) is vitally connected with hoo katechoon (vs. 7), He who holds back the same event. The latter is, in my opinion, the Holy Spirit and His activities in the Church. All of which means that I am driven to the inescapable conclusion that the hee apostasia (vs. 3) refers to the Rapture of the Church which precedes the Day of the Lord, and holds back the revelation of the Man of Sin who ushers in the world-aspect of that period."

[end quoting]
 

TheDivineWatermark

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[one more I found]

[ quote ] "In the first century, we see apostasia used by the historian, Josephus, in a political sense (Jos. Vit., 43) to
signify a rebellion against civil authority. However, the term was also used during this time to describe a fever departing from an ill person, and a boat departing from a dock."

--JB Hixson

[ end quote ]

And another quote taken from his article:

[ quote ] "This view is shared by such notable scholars as Tommy Ice, Tim LaHaye, J. Dwight Pentecost, Kenneth Wuest, Allen MacRae, E. Schuyler English, Stanley Ellison, H. Wayne House, and others."

[ end quote ; bold mine]
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
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[found another one]

[quoting]

"Translation History

"The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either “departure” or “departing.” They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608).[7] This supports the notion that the word truly means “departure.” In fact, Jerome’s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of A.D. 400 renders apostasia with the “word discessio, meaning ‘departure.’”[8] Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of “departure”?

"Most scholars say that no one knows the reason for the translation shift. However, a plausible theory has been put forth by Martin Butalla in his Master of Theology thesis produced at Dallas Theology Seminary in 1998.[9] It appears that the Catholic translation into English from Jerome’s Latin Vulgate known as the Rheims Bible (1576) was the first to break the translation trend. “Apostasia was revised from ‘the departure’ to ‘the Protestant Revolt,’” explains Butalla. “Revolution is the terminology still in use today when Catholicism teaches the history of the Protestant Reformation. Under this guise, apostasia would refer to a departure of Protestants from the Catholic Church.”[10] The Catholic translators appear eager to engage in polemics against the Reformation by even allowing it to impact Bible translation. By 1611, when then original version of the King James Bible came out, the translators changed the English translation tradition from “departure” to “falling away,” which implied “apostasy.” Such a change was a theological response to the Catholic notion that the Reformation was a revolt against the true church; instead, Protestants saw Catholic beliefs as “the falling away” or “the great apostasy. This would mean that the shift in translation was not based upon research of the meaning of the original language but as a theological polemic against the false teachings of Romanism.

"It is well established that E. Schuyler English is thought to be the first pretribulationist to propose that “the departure” in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 was a physical departure and thus a reference to the pre-trib rapture. However, history records that at least a couple of men thought of this idea before English’s series of article in 1950.[11] J. S. Mabie is said to have presented the view that “the departure” refers to the rapture as early as 1859 during a prophecy conference in Los Angeles.[12] He later wrote his view in an article published in November 1895 in a periodical called Morning Star.[13] Another pre-English proponent of “the departure” as the rapture was John R. Rice in a book in 1945.[14]"

--Dr Thomas Ice, "The “Departure” in 2 Thessalonians 2:3", https://www.pre-trib.org/articles/all-articles/message/the-departure-in-2-thessalonians-2-3/read

[end quoting]
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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Yeah I went to my ortho doctor today. He gave me 4 more weeks off. You think I can last that long around here?
Why do you not leave then?

Why are you staying ?
Have you no joy here?
No one is keeping you , go rest in our LORD , and be thankful for God in ALL things...
 

RickStudies

Active member
Sep 10, 2019
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God shines the light on darkness , the shame is on you...

Your heart revealed what was is hidden , you kind of gloated in your post...
I`ve taken a few liberties due to the hostility I`ve encountered. I`m not really a gloater. Consider this:

10 For his letters, say they, are weighty and powerful; but his bodily presence is weak, and his speech contemptible.

13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

Paul was known to be rude, often unpleasant. I`m my case I said nothing that could be considered a personal attack until I had been abused quite a bit. Even then, my retaliation pales in comparison to what has been said to and about me. Before all that I was just talking Bible.