Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[RickStudies]

The gospel of Paul, the revelation of Paul, the gospel of Christ through Paul, It tackles the problem created by the fall of Israel. It`s the path of salvation without joining the nation of Israel.

The 12 apostles preached what they learned from Jesus, The kingdom of God rising up from within Israel to bring salvation to the world as Israel becomes a nation of priests. If you converted as a Gentile you became a proselyte for Israel.

The only thing about this that can be somewhat debated is how long it took for Paul`s gospel to intergrate with the doctrine of the Jewish church of Peter.

 

[posthuman]

61:6.Jesus said dont worship me revelation 22:9

That's not Jesus talking in Revelation 22:9

You haven't actually read it, obviously?

Revelation 22:8-9
Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things. Then he said to me, "See [that you do] not [do that.] For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God."

 

[posthuman]

Why is this guy still going around preaching two Gospels?

Galatians 1 says, anyone preaching another gospel, let him be anathema.

 

[posthuman]

Isaiah42:1-9, I do not accept glory

You haven't actually read this either?
Because it does not say what you claim it says, at all

Isaiah 42:8
I [am] the LORD, that [is] My name; And My glory I will not give to another, Nor My praise to carved images.

Christ accepted worship. This proves that the Messiah is God Himself manifest in the flesh.

Your Quran came 600 years later, written by a man who rejected the word of God, and listening to a demon, wrote the opposite of what Jesus said.

 

[Marcelo]

Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Welcome to Christian Chat, Lilian.

If the law of Moses is still in force that means Paul was a false prophet because he said we were not under the Law.

 

[Marcelo]

You said we need to follow the law of moses did you not?

Once I said something like that, but with quotation marks.

 

[Grandpa]

The gospel of Paul, the revelation of Paul, the gospel of Christ through Paul, It tackles the problem created by the fall of Israel. It`s the path of salvation without joining the nation of Israel.

The 12 apostles preached what they learned from Jesus, The kingdom of God rising up from within Israel to bring salvation to the world as Israel becomes a nation of priests. If you converted as a Gentile you became a proselyte for Israel.

The only thing about this that can be somewhat debated is how long it took for Paul`s gospel to intergrate with the doctrine of the Jewish church of Peter.

Once Paul came to those churches who could withstand him?

I would say as soon as Paul received his revelation of Christ, that was THE Gospel.

If someone else had a gospel showing the Kingdom of God rising up from within physical Israel it would be against Christ and Paul. So Pauls explanation of the Gospel would have to be The One Gospel.

Some other Gospel would be anathema.

 

[Dan_473]

No one has said the Apostles got it wrong. They preached what they knew. But Paul was an incredible scholar, a chosen vessel who was given revelation and knowledge the 12 did not have.


Romans 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Romans 16:25
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

1 Corinthians 2:7
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Ephesians 1:9
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Ephesians 3:3
How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Ephesians 3:4
Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Ephesians 3:9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Ephesians 5:32
This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Ephesians 6:19
And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

Colossians 1:26
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Actually, believe it or not, several people on this thread have told me that they perceive a conflict between what Jesus said and this or that apostle. They felt that in that case, they had to go with the words of Jesus over the words of the apostle.

 

[Dan_473]

why the Bible backs up the Quran? Isaiah 29:12 Quran 7:157-158. Mark 12:29, Deuteronomy 6:4,.Quran 61:6.Jesus said dont worship me revelation 22:9,Jesus servant of God Isaiah42:1-9, I do not accept glory hadith
The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “O people, you must be mindful of Allah and do not allow Satan to deceive you. I am Muhammad the son of Abdullah, the servant of Allah and his messenger. By Allah, I do not love for you to raise my position above what Allah Almighty has granted me.”
Source: Musnad Aḥmad 12141
Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Al-Albani .Galatians 6:5 backs up Quran 35:18.

Hi lilian2800, welcome to CC!

Does Islam have this idea in it?
Galatians 5: 18. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

 

[Dan_473]

Greetings Dan,

Only Matthew and John were apostles who wrote gospels. Mark and Luke were not.

Hi SimpleGardner!

That's correct, that Matthew and John where part of the 12 apostles, Mark and Luke were not.

As I understand it, all four gospels are technically anonymous.

the names of Luke and John are attached to those gospels by a process of deduction.

Matthew and Mark are listed as authors of those gospels based on tradition.

 

[SimpleGardner]

https://thecenacle.weebly.com/mark--luke-were-not-apostles.html

Mark
Mark was the son of a woman named Mary (Acts 12:12) and the cousin of the evangelist Barnabas (Colossians 4:10). Mark was much younger than the other writers. His mother was a prominent follower of Jesus Christ. Acts 12:12 tells us that her house in Jerusalem was used as a meeting place for other disciples. From this verse we also learn that her son’s full name is John Mark. Mark was also a follower of Jesus Christ but would likely have been in his teens when the Lord was in Jerusalem. He may have seen and listened to the Savior on occasion. After the Resurrection, as the Savior’s message was beginning to be spread, Mark traveled with the Apostle Paul. He then accompanied the Apostle Peter to Rome and stayed by him while he was in prison. Mark is known as Peter’s interpreter, both in speech and in writing. As a fisherman from Galilee, Peter may not have spoken Greek fluently, so Mark interpreted for him.

In his book, Mark wrote down the observations and memories of Peter, one of the original Apostles. Mark’s book reflects Peter’s interest in spreading the gospel among the Gentiles.

Appreciate it!

SG

 

[RickStudies]

Once Paul came to those churches who could withstand him?

I would say as soon as Paul received his revelation of Christ, that was THE Gospel.

If someone else had a gospel showing the Kingdom of God rising up from within physical Israel it would be against Christ and Paul. So Pauls explanation of the Gospel would have to be The One Gospel.

Some other Gospel would be anathema.

Ok, so your view is immediate intergration, apostles recieve and understand Paul`s gospel by osmosis.

My view is that it took place over a period of years based on what I see from the books of Acts and James.


Kingdom of God coming through Israel, see below,

1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

Gospel simply means good news.

• What was the good news preached by Jesus and the 12 during Matt-John to the Jews? That their promised King and Messiah is here. That if all of them are willing to repent from rejecting God in the past and accept Jesus as the Son of God, he will rule over them with justice and righteousness (Jeremiah 23:5-6).
• What is the good news preached to all Gentiles now? That Jesus has died for your sins, was buried, and rose again. All you need to do is to believe in all those works he have done for you, and you are now reconciled to God (2 Corinthians 5:11-21)

Both gospels are examples of Good news. And only the last one is strictly about Jesus's death burial and resurrection, which is the good news that is valid NOW, even though both gospels are centered around our Lord Jesus Christ.

All these are scriptural, and many people are realizing this for the very first time, so naturally, they will need time to understand and accept.

Except you are forgetting the most key part of the Gospel/good news. That Jesus is the one to follow.

Acts 3:22-23, " 22 Moses said, ‘The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers. You shall listen to him in whatever he tells you. 23 And it shall be that every soul who does not listen to that prophet shall be destroyed from the people.’

But do the gentiles get a dfiferent message? NO.

Matthew 28:19-20, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Anyone who teaches differently is in direct oppisition to Jesus.

 

[Grandpa]

Ok, so your view is immediate intergration, apostles recieve and understand Paul`s gospel by osmosis.

My view is that it took place over a period of years based on what I see from the books of Acts and James.


Kingdom of God coming through Israel, see below,

1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

Well, maybe not immediate. They didn't have the internet.

However long it would have taken for Paul to get there and preach. Maybe a couple years?

Galatians 4:25-26
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Luke 17:20-21
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

John 7:16-17, " 16 So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. 17 If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority."

 

[wokinluv]

Submission to the Authorities

Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Lucifer did not submit to God's authority. He became proud and rebelled against God. He is the LAWLESS (2 Thessalonians 2:1-12) one and His servants are the fruits of his LAWLESSNESS. Truly that a tree is known by it's fruits.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:16-23

The Master's word/s is a law to His servants, written on their hearts.

Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and walk in Love.

God is good and His Love endures forever. Amen.

The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” When Jesus heard this, he was astonished and said to those following him, “I tell you the truth, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 8:8-13

So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.’” Luke 17:10

Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil. Ecclesiastes 12:13-14

Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?

Paul did not have authority from himself to just decide to tell people that the Mosaic Law was over.

That authority came from Christ. Paul just explained to us what Christ told us in parables and what Christ revealed to him.

If Paul acknowledges God's and Jesus' authority, shouldn't we?

Does a servant acknowledge his master's authority by not keeping his orders, instructions, rules, commands or laws?

Every kingdom and government on this earth has their set of laws for their people, to establish peace and order.

I would not dare to go to KSA and tell their king that his laws have no bearing on me and I am free to do whatever I want in his kingdom. I don't want to become a headless scarecrow.

If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored. ...But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way. 1 Corinthians 14:37-40

The Master's word/s is a law to His servants, written on their hearts.

Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and walk in Love.

God is good and His Love endures forever. Amen.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

2 John 1:9-11, " 9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

 

[RickStudies]

Actually, believe it or not, several people on this thread have told me that they perceive a conflict between what Jesus said and this or that apostle. They felt that in that case, they had to go with the words of Jesus over the words of the apostle.

Yes and some very confused people reject the epistles of Paul altogether. The wise thing is to see such issues as a deficit in ones own understanding rather then thinking such a thing of an Apostle.

Once you realize how the New Testament unfolds everything makes sense, no conflicts. Here is Peter in Acts 3 telling his country men to convert so that Jesus can be sent back.

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:"

The apostle Paul and his gospel was Gods real plan and also his reaction to Israels failure to listen to Peter. The persecution in Acts 8 is in my opinion the event that cause Israel to fall.

It took time for the Jerusalem church to adjust to the new reality. Most likely, many never did.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

If the law of Moses is still in force that means Paul was a false prophet because he said we were not under the Law.

The law of God is clearly in force to all beings, anyone who denies thise disagrees with Jesus:

Matthew 5:17-18, " 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Revelation 21:1-2, " 1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 22:14-15, " 14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Matt 13:41-43, “The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.”

Revelation 12:16-17, " 16 But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth. 17 Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.

Revelation 14:12-13, " 12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. 13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!”

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

You're right! Paul did not have authority from himself, he just relayed Christ's message

John 5:31-32, “If I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is not trustworthy. There is another who testifies about me, and I know that the testimony he gives about me is true.”

One can not testify on their own behalf, we only have Paul telling us what Jesus told him, we never have Jesus or the 12 saying Paul is a chosen disciple to teach for Jesus. Can you show me where another testifies of Paul as a disciple of Jesus? Again it can not be Paul saying someone said something because that is his own testimony.