Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
You know....Samson was a judge in Israel and by all standards he failed in his vows as a Nazarite......other than kill Philistines in life and by his death/suicide what fruit did he bear? And yet he makes the 11th chapter of Hebrews as a man of faith....can we list his illustrious deeds for God????
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
What about Thomas.......what wonderous deeds or fruit is he known for other than doubt......can we list his fruit or works for God?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
The Roman soldier that told Jesus to but speak and it would happen....Not so great a faith had Jesus seen in all of Israel......was that his piece of fruit? What else did he bear? How long did it take him to bear that one piece of faith?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Would a cup of cold water given in the name of Jesus be considered fruit? Jesus said it would not go unnoticed and or unrewarded so....?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
God walked with Adam and even covered his sin by shed blood and making a garment to cover his shame......what fruit did Adam bear? If fruit or works PROVE salvation and without said proof, how can we believe they were saved or the children of God??
 

FollowtheShepherd

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
794
312
63
John 15:1-17, " 1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples. 9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. 10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. 11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full. 12 “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command you. 15 No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. 17 These things I command you, so that you will love one another.

Hebrews 11:1-40, " 1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2 For by it the people of old received their commendation. 3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

4 By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks.

5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

7 By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household. By this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.

8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God.

11 By faith Sarah herself received power to conceive, even when she was past the age, since she considered him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born descendants as many as the stars of heaven and as many as the innumerable grains of sand by the seashore. 13 These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14 For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. 15 If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his only son, 18 of whom it was said, “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 19 He considered that God was able even to raise him from the dead, from which, figuratively speaking, he did receive him back. 20 By faith Isaac invoked future blessings on Jacob and Esau.

21 By faith Jacob, when dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, bowing in worship over the head of his staff.

22 By faith Joseph, at the end of his life, made mention of the exodus of the Israelites and gave directions concerning his bones.

23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden for three months by his parents, because they saw that the child was beautiful, and they were not afraid of the king's edict. 24 By faith Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter, 25 choosing rather to be mistreated with the people of God than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. 26 He considered the reproach of Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt, for he was looking to the reward. 27 By faith he left Egypt, not being afraid of the anger of the king, for he endured as seeing him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and sprinkled the blood, so that the Destroyer of the firstborn might not touch them. 29 By faith the people crossed the Red Sea as on dry land, but the Egyptians, when they attempted to do the same, were drowned.

30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they had been encircled for seven days.

31 By faith Rahab the prostitute did not perish with those who were disobedient, because she had given a friendly welcome to the spies.

32 And what more shall I say? For time would fail me to tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets— 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, enforced justice, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, were made strong out of weakness, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight. 35 Women received back their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, so that they might rise again to a better life. 36 Others suffered mocking and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were killed with the sword. They went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, mistreated— 38 of whom the world was not worthy— wandering about in deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. 39 And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40 since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
As a matter of fact the bible lays silent concerning most believers and what they did or did not do....Out of the 11 Apostles (excluding Judas) and a few writing some books of the bible list their fruit and great deeds they done from the bible? I have always wondered why it does not list all these great deeds, works and fruit they put out......if it is So important and required as full proof.......
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
@FollowtheShepherd great verses.......what about all the other believers.......like say the Corinthian fornicator called a BROTHER and was to be cut loose for the destruction of the FLESH so the Spirit would be saved in the day of Christ?
 

FollowtheShepherd

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
794
312
63
@FollowtheShepherd great verses.......what about all the other believers.......like say the Corinthian fornicator called a BROTHER and was to be cut loose for the destruction of the FLESH so the Spirit would be saved in the day of Christ?
Well I never met the guy nor am I the judge, but I definitly think his spirit could have been saved for damnation or also the guy could have recieved mercy and repented. I was not there.
 

FollowtheShepherd

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
794
312
63
@FollowtheShepherd great verses on FAITH.......

So Moses refusing to be called the son of Pharaoh <--- was that a piece of FRUIT or just an act of FAITH?
I think it was his true faith that enabled him to "produce fruit"

I always thought that was the theme of that whole chapter.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Well I never met the guy nor am I the judge, but I definitly think his spirit could have been saved for damnation or also the guy could have recieved mercy and repented. I was not there.
Well....he is called a BROTHER and the context was his spirit being SAVED....not for damnation....it seems to indicate for the Kingdom since he is identified as a BROTHER while being condemned in the flesh for being a fornicating believer.....
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
I am concluding that men, in their high mindedness, over scrutinize men and women while being hypocritical fruit inspectors........WHAT really qualifies as fruit?.....How do we identify fruit? The following Jesus acknowledges....

a. Visiting the sick.
b. Feeding the hungry
c. Visiting those in prison
d. Giving cups of cold water
e. Clothing the naked

I.E. doing it to the least of the brethern......

How do we view these things.....and can the above be qualified as fruit?
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
What about Thomas.......what wonderous deeds or fruit is he known for other than doubt......can we list his fruit or works for God?
I would say that since Christ chose Thomas, he was known to produce these fruits.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
 

FollowtheShepherd

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
794
312
63
Well....he is called a BROTHER and the context was his spirit being SAVED....not for damnation....it seems to indicate for the Kingdom since he is identified as a BROTHER while being condemned in the flesh for being a fornicating believer.....
Well, Im uncertian about this, that does make sense, but there are other things that make me uncertian.

1 Corinthians 5:3-5, " 3 For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. 4 When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

Because in the prior chapter Paul says this:

1 Corinthians 4:1-5, " 1 This is how one should regard us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. 2 Moreover, it is required of stewards that they be found faithful. 3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by any human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself. 4 For I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me. 5 Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God."

Romans 14:4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.:

How can Paul say he does not even judge himself while judging another?

How can Paul say dont judge anothers servant as he does so?

I feel like this is VERY CERTIAN:

John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
 

FollowtheShepherd

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
794
312
63
So then faith produces fruit<--I though the root (asking) Jesus produces the fruit and we being branches BEAR the fruit?
Yes Jesus says "IF we abide in Him we produce fruit, if not thrown into fire"

Jesus is the ONLY way.

John 15:5-16, " 5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples. 9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. 10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. 11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full. 12 “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command you. 15 No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

John 14: 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
Well I never met the guy nor am I the judge, but I definitly think his spirit could have been saved for damnation or also the guy could have recieved mercy and repented. I was not there.
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

If the guy needs to be turned over to Satan to save his spirit, the guy wasn't saved. Saved people have eternal security and don't need their spirits saved.... their spirit is already saved.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,319
6,690
113
ask followrthesheperd what he/she thinks about the Law. I already know, but I am not going to say.....