Not By Works

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dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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#109,441
Dec 12, 2013
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#109,441
Lightskin said:
Where did he say everyone is vile and wicked to the core? If he did I missed it.
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HE obviously disregards the word of God....GOD IS the one that said we are wicked to the core in the flesh and even after being saved there are NONE good no not one <---JESUS said this while he was on the earth with saved, immersed disciples and apostles on the earth.....why can't the law keepers and salvation workers for acknowledge the simple truth....NO ONE KEEPS the law......
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#109,442
#109,442
TooFastTurtle said:
Religious hoop jumping is what you call what the Bible teaches a man must do. Horrible attitude and no respect whatsoever, the fruit of easy believism on display, arrogance, pride, hate, malice, slander, you name it the easy-believism nochange gospel produces it.

I would love to hear an apology, if not, I will not even try to communicate with you anymore, I will forgive you however and hope and pray that you have not seared your conscience yet to the point of no repentance from sitting under false teaching.
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People that change their ways but still have not been saved... they are the real easy believers.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#109,443
Dec 12, 2013
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#109,443
TooFastTurtle said:
So you guys believe that doing what Paul or Jesus or John says is keeping the law?

The Lawwould be the Torah... Some commandments apply in both covenants, some dont.
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NO...we believe the righteousness of CHRIST is imputed BY FAITH without the deeds/works of the LAW......and or commandment keeping....and that is what you cannot grasp......
 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

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Feb 21, 2014
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dcontroversal said:
The bible is clear.....faith plus law keeping is a false gospel of a different kind with no power to save....those that peddle it are double cursed, those that believe it are fools and bewitched....

Galatians....O FOOLISH GALATIANS who has bewitched you <----the ones peddling faith plus law for.........
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Galatians was the focus of today's online church service that I watch. :)
 
TooFastTurtle

TooFastTurtle

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Apr 10, 2019
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#109,445
dcontroversal said:
NO...we believe the righteousness of CHRIST is imputed BY FAITH without the deeds/works of the LAW......and or commandment keeping....and that is what you cannot grasp......
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Again. You should be consistent and stop reading the Gospels, if you consider what Jesus said in them to be "law" and obedience to them as "law keeping"

Works of the law is circumcision, is the Torah. Is not Jesus' commandments to love God and love your neighbor, is not Paul's epistles saying if you do these you will not inherit the kingdom. That is what you cannot grasp.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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UnderGrace said:
Mr. Dan I did not say that.....there is only one faith and it is the faith that saves.

Anyone who is not born again has not exercised faith (faith being persuaded by hearing truth).

Therefore is no "spurious faith"... that is Calvinist/Lordship salvation doctrine.

James was asked that questions about demons by his Jewish brethren, he knew what they were stating as part of their arguments.
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Why would James ask the question, “can that faith save him,” in James 2:14 if it was not a spurious faith? James did not say what good is it if a man actually has faith, but says he has faith. Also keep in mind that the Greek word for “believe” in James 2:19 is “pisteuo” which is the same Greek word used in Acts 16:31, yet the demons are not saved.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
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Dec 12, 2013
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#109,448
TooFastTurtle said:
Again. You should be consistent and stop reading the Gospels, if you consider what Jesus said in them to be "law" and obedience to them as "law keeping"

Works of the law is circumcision, is the Torah. Is not Jesus' commandments to love God and love your neighbor, is not Paul's epistles saying if you do these you will not inherit the kingdom. That is what you cannot grasp.
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I grasp it fine....JESUS was born, lived and died under the law which ratified the NEW>....that is what you cannot grasp....amongst other truths I might add!
 
TooFastTurtle

TooFastTurtle

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#109,449
I believe this is the heart of the issue: What are the works of the law? Are they Torah or commandments listed by teh Apostles and Jesus in the NT? I say the first. You say both first and second? That begs the question why bother even writing any of the NT commandments, we already had the Torah to show us our sins and bring us to Christ. Dont you feel that is a hole in that theory?

Do you have any evidence to show that New Testament commandments are also works of the law? If you do have, I will promise to listen and look at it carefully.
 
TooFastTurtle

TooFastTurtle

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dcontroversal said:
I grasp it fine....JESUS was born, lived and died under the law which ratified the NEW>....that is what you cannot grasp....amongst other truths I might add!
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But did you know Paul wrote after Jesus and it was a New Covenant indeed, and in teh new covenant you still cannot steal fornicate etc. or you will not inherit the Kingdom, Paul says be not deceived, yet this is exactly how we are being deceived today, we are told yes you can do those things and still make it.

Maybe this issue should be set aside, could we please respectfully discuss what I posted above there ^? I believe thats the heart of the issue, which is what are the works of the law?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#109,451
#109,451
VCO said:
John 14:15 (NASB)
15 "If you love Me [ARE BORN AGAIN], you will keep [.WANT TO KEEP IT OUT OF LOVE FOR HIM.] My commandments.

[.NO AND'S, IF'S, OR MAYBE'S AT ALL. THAT IS WILL WANT TO OBEY HIM OUT OF LOVE, AND IT WILL ALWAYS BE THEIR. NO, WE ARE NOT PERFECT, BUT THAT STRIVING TO OBEY HIM OUT OF LOVE WILL BE OBVIOUS. IT IS PART OF "LET YOUR LIGHT SHINE."]

You do KNOW, that theology you just presented is PART OF THE LIBERAL EVANGELICAL theology ?
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PART OF THE LIBERAL EVANGELICAL theology
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It is actually Grace... most people cannot deal with it sadly ... a gift with no strings attached is exactly that "a gift"
 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

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#109,452
Jesus must have an infinite supply of white-out fluid, with all the names He has to write in and then erase from the book of life.. Sad.png
 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

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#109,454
TooFastTurtle said:
No need, Jesus has foreknowledge
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My point is, that once a person's name is written in the book of life, it CANNOT be removed. Otherwise Jesus would be a liar, and He is far from being a liar.. He says He will not lose those whom God has given to Him, and He means it. :)
 
U

UnderGrace

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#109,455
mailmandan said:
Why would James ask the question, “can that faith save him,” in James 2:14 if it was not a spurious faith? James did not say what good is it if a man actually has faith, but says he has faith. Also keep in mind that the Greek word for “believe” in James 2:19 is “pisteuo” which is the same Greek word used in Acts 16:31, yet the demons are not saved.
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Yes well research the insertion of "that" into the text.

What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? (NKJV)

James is not speaking about eternal salvation, that does not fit within the context of the reason and audience of the letter.
 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

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Feb 21, 2014
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#109,456
If any of you use Listerine, I'd rethink that idea.. Just came across this abomination on Walmart.com.. Roll Eyes.png


It's called "Care With Pride"..


cwp.PNG
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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#109,457
UnderGrace said:
Yes well research the insertion of "that" into the text.

What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? (NKJV)

James is not speaking about eternal salvation, that does not fit within the context of the reason and audience of the letter.
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James 2:14 - What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? (NASB)
 
Melach

Melach

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TooFastTurtle said:
I believe this is the heart of the issue: What are the works of the law? Are they Torah or commandments listed by teh Apostles and Jesus in the NT?
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on second thinking lets see ok?

torah says dont steal. paul says dont steal.
torah says love your neighbor, jesus says love your neighbor
torah says dont adultery, paul says dont adultery
....
....
...

we can keep moving. think about it, its same commandments so obedience to torah or obedience to Jesus it doesnt matter both contain same commands. but truely circumcision isnt talked in the new testament but the moral commandments are still there.

if we are not justified by works of law then we cant be justified by loving neighbor either. we put first the horse and and after it the cart. first is faith then the good works come from that. if they dont its not even good work its more like sin because its not done in love and with bad motive. ephesians 2:8-10 is grace saved by faith not by works but also we are created by Jesus unto good works so we should walk in them.
 
Melach

Melach

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#109,459
i believe its about condition of heart. works can show whats in your heart. but it cant also.

before you say im crazy think about this symbol:

there is a hungry homeless man outside of church. two men walk outside from church with a doublepack of those triangle sandwiches, one man is a smoker and gives it to the hungry man. second man is a non-smoker and doesnt give his.

who is more righteous? maybe the first man is still trying to kick the habit know it wrong. but he still helped this man. like Jesus said born again people do in the sheep and goats judgment.
me i dont believe thats salvation but its about the kingdom that Jesus is coming to put up, but maybe im wrong on that i dont know. i just think it makes sense but its off topic. point is still: love in your heart not just cold obedience. its about motive too which we cant see only God can see heart
 
U

UnderGrace

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mailmandan said:
James 2:14 - What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? (NASB)
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This is not saving faith though... that is the point.... no modifier in front like "authentic"

So what is this faith going to save him from... that is what one needs to consider if it is not faith for eternal life.
 
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