Not By Works

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stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,257
211
63
69
Walk trough the valley
Have you been taught that works will save you?

Because if that is what you have been taught you have been taught wrong.

As well, you judge another by a faulty doctrine, in which case you are in NO position to make any judgments.
No Madam Christians dont belive that they can raise themselved from the dead. Its my brother who believes he is a god and believes that, neither does he consider himself in Christ, but your a Christian and you know that. Yet Paul encouraged us to press on that we may attain to the Resurrection: since now we have the Spirit of God In us, "The Same Spirit that Saved Christ from the dead dwelling in you, shall make alive your dead spiritual body by His Spirit dweling in you." ("Now we are the body of Christ") These are they who walk in Love, "In Faith that 'Works' by Love." Now who does the work? Me or my Friend, and we do have to be friends of God to do the work of God, not babes. "We are labourers together with God. We are God's vineyard." "Go also in my vineyard and what is Wright I will give you." These ar past 12 years of age as Jesus was in the temple. "Did you not know that I must be in My Father's house." I received this calling about 15 years ago and recently the LOrd told me: Your not ready. They were words of encouragement. I will include them here, as well as a poem by St John of the Cross on the Journey to enter into rest in God

Ascending in contemplation worship by St John of the Cross:
To see ourselves there, without knowing where we are; unknowing in profound solitude, transcending all knowledge: experiencing Peace and Holiness that can’t be held; stammering and withdrawn from senses, overwhelmed and absorbed with thanksgiving beyond words; entering into Wisdom transcending knowledge. To seek union with God alone, whose Love transforms us into new creatures in Christ; dying with Him daily in the reconciliation of the cross, that we may live in Him: wounding our soul in its deepest desire, to bring us in union with Him. He who overcomes is free of himself and his knowledge seems worthless: forgetting created things, feeling abandoned, to ascend in the Love of God whose purpose in creation is for us to share. To ascend in fellowship with God whose Joy is for us to be with Him in eternity.

Directions received in preparation for Journey:
"We will give ourselves to prayer."
Withhold nothing, take nothing, you have to be determined to succeed. Your prayer life must increase, content to participate in the mystery of God. Go, this is a time of prayer; it’s the only way you'll succeed. Keep yourself in the Love of God, don't give up: you’re not ready. Be still: know that I Am with you. "Wait on the Lord and He will strengthen your heart." Your prayer life has to extend in all areas of your life. What you do not realize is that the war is accomplished: it's not as simple as you getting the power, you have to Love the Truth. Give up your life, no more going back to idols.
Don't be afraid, above all surrender (give Him your fear). Don’t stay outside, don’t worry, Psalm 118. Be Faithful unto death. Seek Me more than your necessary food. Don’t fight against the Holy Ghost, give yourself to prayer. Give yourself to Him, you need to change, no longer desire earthly things, come and be reconciled. Make the most of your time, live in Prayer, don't want anything else. Don’t forget.
These Word were over a period of 3 weeks of making the decision to quit work for a time alone in the wilderness. During that time of preperation heard: Pray for wisdom. I laid down on the bed and prayed for wisdom and fel asleep for a few minutes. While asleep said to myself: I have 50 days, i was hired by a former employer aftrer 50 days. The experience showed me why I'm not ready, my prayer life is still shalow and distracted by unimportant things. I have no regrets, we are slow learners and get up to go on with thanksgiving in everything.
Farewell sister.
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,257
211
63
69
Walk trough the valley
Have you been taught that works will save you?

Because if that is what you have been taught you have been taught wrong.

As well, you judge another by a faulty doctrine, in which case you are in NO position to make any judgments.
As for what you said about judging my brother:
The Words of Jesus had come to mind before reading what you said here. "Out of your own mout will I judge you." I don't judge because I know it would expose where I don't walk in Love and much rather be cleansed, "As we walk in the Light as He is in the Light, we have fellowship one with Another and the blood of Jesus clenses us from all sin." It's controversial that said: you think like someone who has not read through the bible, and bears his own judgment. God does not need my help, I need His help, neither could I help and I'm not going to be in this page.
 
P

Pisteuo

Guest
This is kind of a hard one to untangle.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

If you have faith in Christ then you are resting. You've been given Rest as a gift.

But, again, faith causes action. And our faith causes the action of rest. If that makes any sense.
You've touched on a point I can't explain.

All of God's deeper truths are paradoxes. Without that understanding, we have no chance of discerning God's word. Fulfilling pisteuo must start and be maintained and accepted by God first.
 
P

Pisteuo

Guest
Salvation may be likened to a light switched on. The power makes the light work, not any effort on our part. AFTER salvation, we are expected to do what is right, or to be fruitful in righteousness. Some versions of the Bible have us "being saved". But conversion is instantaneous when baptized into the body of Christ as believers. If, AFTER salvation, we accomplish little or nothing as a member, then the parable of the sower, parable of the talents, James 2: 14-26 and the overcomers in the seven churches come into play. Romans 8: 1 should read the same as verse four. See KJV. Too much of the Bible is read without regard to context. Romans 8: 12-14. tell us that obedience that produces holiness is required. "Be ye holy as I am holy for without holiness, no man shall see the Lord". Romans 6: 22 says it well: But now, being made free from sin, and become servants to God, you have your FRUIT unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
If we are sealed with the Spirit of Christ before the parable of the sower, the 3 that fail would have done so with the Spirit of Christ in them. Are you ready to stand on that?
 
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Pisteuo

Guest
YOU WOULD BE TOTALLY WRONG ABOUT THAT:


John 1:50 (NASB)
50 Jesus answered and said to him, "Because I said to you that I saw you under the fig tree, do you believe {Gk. - pisteuô - #4100} ? You will see greater things than these."


QUOTE:

Greek NASB Number: 4100

Greek Word: πιστεύω

Transliterated Word: pisteuô
Root:
from 4102;

Definition: to believe, entrust:--

List of English Words and Number of Times Used
believe (118),
believed (73),
believers (3),
believes (29),
believing (10),
do (1),
entrust (1),
entrusted (6),
entrusting (1),
has faith (1).

New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.

END QUOTE:



IT SEEMS YOU HAVE ADDED TO THE MEANING of the word pisteuô.
Shame on you.

Proverbs 30:6 (HCSB)
6 Don’t add to His words, or He will rebuke you, and you will be proved a liar.


John 1:50 (KJV)
50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou {Gk. - pisteuô - #4100}? thou shalt see greater things than these.

QUOTE:

Greek Strong's Number: 4100

Greek Word: πιστεύω

Transliteration: pisteuō

Phonetic Pronunciation:
pist-yoo'-o


Root: from <G4102>

Cross Reference: TDNT - 6:174,849

Part of Speech: v

Vine's Words: Belief, Believe, Believers, Commit, Commission, Intrust, Trust

Usage Notes:

English Words used in KJV:

believe 239
commit unto 4
commit to (one's) trust 1
be committed unto 1
be put in trust with 1
be commit to one's trust 1
believer 1


[Total Count: 248] [.AND NONE OF THEM TRANSLATES TO "FAITH" .]


Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary. ON KJV WORDS.

END QUOTE:




We have a tool that we can use here. It is called a permanent - IGNORE LIST. THAT WAY WE CAN IGNORE YOUR POSTS, AND NONE OF YOUR POSTS WILL EVEN SHOW UP ON OUR SCREEN, SO YOU CAN USE YOUR DIVISIVENESS TO ARGUE WITH YOURSELF.

Titus 3:9-11 (HCSB)
9 But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,
11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned.


This is the second time that I personally have warned you about your divisiveness:

So the next time I will put you on my permanent IGNORE LIST and let you argue with yourself.
Almost a hundred years of scriptural study at a Stanford University level of teaching has gone into what I freely giving you. I wouldn't share this and be accountable for what I'm sharing if I wasn't sure!
 
P

Pisteuo

Guest
we are in the last day and we will see greater things. God has never changes he is the same yesterday and today. He is giving us mercy and time to repent!!1!!
Yes repent, "turn". Then take the first step in pisteuo towards Him. A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender"
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
we are in the last day and we will see greater things. God has never changes he is the same yesterday and today. He is giving us mercy and time to repent!!1!!
Amen.

Old Testament Saints had the Faith that believed GOD would send the MESSIAH the same as Abraham did.

O.T. Saints believed that GOD would send a Messiah to pay for their sins.

N.T. Saints believe that GOD did send the Messiah to pay for our sins.

It is the same faith, therefore they were saved the same way we are.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
This is kind of a hard one to untangle.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

If you have faith in Christ then you are resting. You've been given Rest as a gift.

But, again, faith causes action. And our faith causes the action of rest. If that makes any sense.
What many of these jokers cannot seem to grasp....The ROOT is what produces ALL WORKS OR FRUIT...a BRANCH does nothing but SUPPORT THE FRUIT being produced by the ROOT........a living SACRIFICE at the DISPOSAL of another......JESUS BEARS THROUGH US.....and exactly why NO MAN CAN BOAST!
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
You've touched on a point I can't explain.

All of God's deeper truths are paradoxes. Without that understanding, we have no chance of discerning God's word. Fulfilling pisteuo must start and be maintained and accepted by God first.
What is your "Surrendered Life" if it is not Rest in Christ?

They aren't paradoxes. They are Spiritual. Which is opposite of what the carnal expects (and understands).
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
YOU WOULD BE TOTALLY WRONG ABOUT THAT:


John 1:50 (NASB)
50 Jesus answered and said to him, "Because I said to you that I saw you under the fig tree, do you believe {Gk. - pisteuô - #4100} ? You will see greater things than these."


QUOTE:

Greek NASB Number: 4100

Greek Word: πιστεύω

Transliterated Word: pisteuô
Root:
from 4102;

Definition: to believe, entrust:--

List of English Words and Number of Times Used
believe (118),
believed (73),
believers (3),
believes (29),
believing (10),
do (1),
entrust (1),
entrusted (6),
entrusting (1),
has faith (1).

New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.

END QUOTE:



IT SEEMS YOU HAVE ADDED TO THE MEANING of the word pisteuô.
Shame on you.

Proverbs 30:6 (HCSB)
6 Don’t add to His words, or He will rebuke you, and you will be proved a liar.


John 1:50 (KJV)
50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou {Gk. - pisteuô - #4100}? thou shalt see greater things than these.

QUOTE:

Greek Strong's Number: 4100

Greek Word: πιστεύω

Transliteration: pisteuō

Phonetic Pronunciation:
pist-yoo'-o


Root: from <G4102>

Cross Reference: TDNT - 6:174,849

Part of Speech: v

Vine's Words: Belief, Believe, Believers, Commit, Commission, Intrust, Trust

Usage Notes:

English Words used in KJV:

believe 239
commit unto 4
commit to (one's) trust 1
be committed unto 1
be put in trust with 1
be commit to one's trust 1
believer 1

[Total Count: 248] [.AND NONE OF THEM TRANSLATES TO "FAITH" .]



Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary. ON KJV WORDS.

END QUOTE:




We have a tool that we can use here. It is called a permanent - IGNORE LIST. THAT WAY WE CAN IGNORE YOUR POSTS, AND NONE OF YOUR POSTS WILL EVEN SHOW UP ON OUR SCREEN, SO YOU CAN USE YOUR DIVISIVENESS TO ARGUE WITH YOURSELF.

Titus 3:9-11 (HCSB)
9 But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,
11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned.


This is the second time that I personally have warned you about your divisiveness:

So the next time I will put you on my permanent IGNORE LIST and let you argue with yourself.
Pastrami has been wrong from day one.....another one that embellishes beyond the truth = error!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
we are in the last day and we will see greater things. God has never changes he is the same yesterday and today. He is giving us mercy and time to repent!!1!!
God would have all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth and he takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked......Having said that though.....there is a LAST DAY and one can be a DAY LATE AND A "Dolla" short......there is a dividing line for sure.....
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
As for what you said about judging my brother:
The Words of Jesus had come to mind before reading what you said here. "Out of your own mout will I judge you." I don't judge because I know it would expose where I don't walk in Love and much rather be cleansed, "As we walk in the Light as He is in the Light, we have fellowship one with Another and the blood of Jesus clenses us from all sin." It's controversial that said: you think like someone who has not read through the bible, and bears his own judgment. God does not need my help, I need His help, neither could I help and I'm not going to be in this page.
You have stated salvation (spiritual/regeneration) is an ongoing process, you are wrong in this, this is not what scripture teaches.
 
P

Pisteuo

Guest
Amen.

Old Testament Saints had the Faith that believed GOD would send the MESSIAH the same as Abraham did.

O.T. Saints believed that GOD would send a Messiah to pay for their sins.

N.T. Saints believe that GOD did send the Messiah to pay for our sins.

It is the same faith, therefore they were saved the same way we are.
There's only two words in the OT for Faith, both pictorial.

One, the running to the shelter of a mother birds wings. Emphasis on the continual running towards the shelter,(Christ).

Two, to lean on a staff. Emphasis on the continual leaning on a support (Christ) will ALL your weigh behind it.
 
R

Ruby123

Guest
Most of the teaching has been wrong for so long it is now a matter of undoing it. People are so used to works or mixing works with grace they simply can't accept grace.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Almost a hundred years of scriptural study at a Stanford University level of teaching has gone into what I freely giving you. I wouldn't share this and be accountable for what I'm sharing if I wasn't sure!
This is a problem then, since the gospel does not require a "Stanford University level" of teaching or knowledge to be understood.... we are told to have child like faith.

But I would agree you are accountable for what you are sharing which basically shuts people out of salvation
 
P

Pisteuo

Guest
What is your "Surrendered Life" if it is not Rest in Christ?

They aren't paradoxes. They are Spiritual. Which is opposite of what the carnal expects (and understands).
Paradox
What is your "Surrendered Life" if it is not Rest in Christ?

They aren't paradoxes. They are Spiritual. Which is opposite of what the carnal expects (and understands).
It took my teacher 6 months, at a Stanford University level of teaching, 6 months to just teach what a paradox is. And that was to Quasi genius's who paid Him to learn.

How long would it take me to teach this to someone who doesn't want to learn it?

That is why I warn people at the Start of the salvation journey. And I only talk about what's important, Faith, pisteuo, "a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender."
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Most of the teaching has been wrong for so long it is now a matter of undoing it. People are so used to works or mixing works with grace they simply can't accept grace.
Amen.....and like OIL AND WATER.....Grace plus works for salvation will never = saved..........!!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
This is a problem then, since the gospel does not require a "Stanford University level" of teaching or knowledge to be understood.... we are told to have child like faith.

But I would agree you are accountable for what you are sharing which basically shuts people out of salvation
Yeah.....gonna be hot for those that lead astray.....a liquid deprived place with higher than normal temps!!
 
P

Pisteuo

Guest
Most of the teaching has been wrong for so long it is now a matter of undoing it. People are so used to works or mixing works with grace they simply can't accept grace.
Grace and Faith are two separate things. Grace is completed, finished! Faith is something we must do continually throughout the relationship with Christ. Yes, it changes as we are being perfected. So what I would be warning you about at the start would be much different than my warning at the end.

Your correct about the teaching being wrong for so long. Ever since the Greek word pisteuo was mistranslated into the English language. Creating the wide path, which is the "believe and recieve" church world of today.