All scriptures are written to eternally saved people, instructing them as how he wants them to live their lives here on earth, and also explains how that Jesus died on the cross to pay for their sins, and imputed his righteousness unto them so they don't have to go about trying to establish their own righteousness by their good works.
3 Tactics Calvinists Use Against Non-Calvinists
- Thread starter Whispered
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Again, that vacates the TULIP of Calvinism that you've otherwise defended throughout this entire thread until of late.
Unconditional Election = God chose from eternity to save certain people, not based upon any foreseen virtue, faith, or anticipated acceptance of the Gospel. God chose to extend mercy to those He has specifically chosen and to withhold mercy from those not chosen. Those chosen receive salvation through Christ alone. Those not chosen receive wrath and damnation.
Limited Atonement = Christ died only for those whom God specifically pre-decided to save—the elect—but not for any others.
Sure he will forgive all those individuals who forsake sin and cleave to Christ. That is because he caused them to do it, by giving them a heart of flesh.
And, there is a difference between redemptive love versus common grace. God has redemptive love toward the elect. He doesn't have this toward others. But there is still a common grace that all mankind experiences, in that God provides good things to all mankind.
By the way, the Psalms and other places say that God hates the sinner. So, in one sense, God hates them too. It does not say that God hates just the sin, but it says that he hates the sinner.
And Romans 1-3 clearly teaches that sinners who have not experienced his grace are under the wrath and condemnation of God.
So, let's not create an idol that does not exercise wrath and condemnation toward sinners and their sin. They are actually under the wrath and condemnation of God.
But, some want to teach a weak, Grandfather-god who really doesn't address the sin issue with man. That's another idol that some free-willers hold onto. They simply can't honestly read the book of Romans in that light. Until someone is born-again, they are actually sinners who are under the wrath and condemnation of a just God, and that is a reality. Soft-selling the gospel like many free-willers do is not doing the sinner or anyone else justice.
And, there is a difference between redemptive love versus common grace. God has redemptive love toward the elect. He doesn't have this toward others. But there is still a common grace that all mankind experiences, in that God provides good things to all mankind.
By the way, the Psalms and other places say that God hates the sinner. So, in one sense, God hates them too. It does not say that God hates just the sin, but it says that he hates the sinner.
And Romans 1-3 clearly teaches that sinners who have not experienced his grace are under the wrath and condemnation of God.
So, let's not create an idol that does not exercise wrath and condemnation toward sinners and their sin. They are actually under the wrath and condemnation of God.
But, some want to teach a weak, Grandfather-god who really doesn't address the sin issue with man. That's another idol that some free-willers hold onto. They simply can't honestly read the book of Romans in that light. Until someone is born-again, they are actually sinners who are under the wrath and condemnation of a just God, and that is a reality. Soft-selling the gospel like many free-willers do is not doing the sinner or anyone else justice.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
The funny thing is I am not judging them at all. I don't think they can repent until God grants them repentance. It is you who would be judgmental, as you believe they are perfectly able to repent anytime.
By the way, you are claiming that I don't look to Christ for salvation, but to John Calvin. Accurate theology is not necessary to be saved, and nor am I in love with John Calvin. In fact, I haven't read his Institutes and nor do I call myself a Calvinist.
I do call myself Reformed, but there are a vast number of Reformed figureheads. I don't idolize any one of them.
Again, this is typical free-willer slander. Instead of making this about Scripture, which has been copiously quoted on the three threads I have done on total depravity, unconditional election, and limited atonement, you attempt to associate my position with John Calvin.
Scripture portrays a sovereign God who has a particular people chosen since the foundation of the world, which he gave to the Son. The Son died to ransom these people for Himself, and the Holy Spirit applies this effectual salvation to them. The elect people of God strive to glorify Him in their lives and their teaching. This is the essence of Reformed theology.
By the way, you are claiming that I don't look to Christ for salvation, but to John Calvin. Accurate theology is not necessary to be saved, and nor am I in love with John Calvin. In fact, I haven't read his Institutes and nor do I call myself a Calvinist.
I do call myself Reformed, but there are a vast number of Reformed figureheads. I don't idolize any one of them.
Again, this is typical free-willer slander. Instead of making this about Scripture, which has been copiously quoted on the three threads I have done on total depravity, unconditional election, and limited atonement, you attempt to associate my position with John Calvin.
Scripture portrays a sovereign God who has a particular people chosen since the foundation of the world, which he gave to the Son. The Son died to ransom these people for Himself, and the Holy Spirit applies this effectual salvation to them. The elect people of God strive to glorify Him in their lives and their teaching. This is the essence of Reformed theology.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
By the way, I want folks to notice my avatar.
Does it look like I look up to John Calvin?
This thread is supposedly to expose "Calvinists" but these guys are exposing their own tactics to slander Reformed believers.
It is obvious I do not "look up to John Calvin". My avatar is Jesus on the Cross. Yet, these guys have seen fit to make such claims as these:
1. You are not a Christian.
2. You believe Satanic things.
3. You are an idiot.
4. You worship John Calvin.
My position isn't changed, though. I have been in the free-willer camp quite a bit and they are clueless and susceptible to all kinds of doctrinal problems. Their worldview doesn't have much explaining power, and that is why I associate with Reformed believers.
By the way, they DO misrepresent Reformed theology. While claiming that they do not, and that they are falsely accused, they do misrepresent it. Some do it out of ignorance by playing "telephone game" and quoting guys like Dave Hunt and other propagandists, and others do it maliciously knowing what they are doing.
Does it look like I look up to John Calvin?
This thread is supposedly to expose "Calvinists" but these guys are exposing their own tactics to slander Reformed believers.
It is obvious I do not "look up to John Calvin". My avatar is Jesus on the Cross. Yet, these guys have seen fit to make such claims as these:
1. You are not a Christian.
2. You believe Satanic things.
3. You are an idiot.
4. You worship John Calvin.
My position isn't changed, though. I have been in the free-willer camp quite a bit and they are clueless and susceptible to all kinds of doctrinal problems. Their worldview doesn't have much explaining power, and that is why I associate with Reformed believers.
By the way, they DO misrepresent Reformed theology. While claiming that they do not, and that they are falsely accused, they do misrepresent it. Some do it out of ignorance by playing "telephone game" and quoting guys like Dave Hunt and other propagandists, and others do it maliciously knowing what they are doing.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
More of the same attacks on other believers.
The bible is the source of all doctrine that is of God. When Calvin's writings are used to color the bible error enters into the discussion. Calvinist zealots overstate the bible doctrine that the five points of Calvinism are intended to represent.
Get Vance's book "The other Side of Calvinism" and give it a read. Vance Publications it is a valuable resource in learning about Calvinism.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The bible is the source of all doctrine that is of God. When Calvin's writings are used to color the bible error enters into the discussion. Calvinist zealots overstate the bible doctrine that the five points of Calvinism are intended to represent.
Get Vance's book "The other Side of Calvinism" and give it a read. Vance Publications it is a valuable resource in learning about Calvinism.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I believed in predestination prior to coming in contact with any Reformed people.
It just so happens that the theology comports to Scripture.
God has an elect people that he has given to the Son. The Son atones for their sins on the Cross. The Holy Spirit applies this salvation to them.
Jesus actually atoned for their sins. He didn't just create the possibility of their forgiveness.
Simple.
It just so happens that the theology comports to Scripture.
God has an elect people that he has given to the Son. The Son atones for their sins on the Cross. The Holy Spirit applies this salvation to them.
Jesus actually atoned for their sins. He didn't just create the possibility of their forgiveness.
Simple.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Reformed theology is represented by Scripture. I have produced the Scripture for three of the five points, and will continue to present it for the last two points.
I'm sure it's an impartial source of information if YOU recommend it, since you've made your contempt for Reformed theology apparent.
By the way, I noted that individuals here have said these things:
1. You are not a Christian.
2. You believe Satanic things.
3. You are an idiot (in essence).
4. You worship John Calvin.
While claiming to be charitable, you yourselves spit venom at Reformed believers. Therefore, measure yourselves by your own standards that you impose on others.
I'm sure it's an impartial source of information if YOU recommend it, since you've made your contempt for Reformed theology apparent.
By the way, I noted that individuals here have said these things:
1. You are not a Christian.
2. You believe Satanic things.
3. You are an idiot (in essence).
4. You worship John Calvin.
While claiming to be charitable, you yourselves spit venom at Reformed believers. Therefore, measure yourselves by your own standards that you impose on others.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
You do not act like a Christian. If there is doubt about your salvation it was not created by me. You do view the bible through the lens of Calvinism when it must be the other way around. You do add to what people are saying which is a real bad way to communicate.
You are here to teach and not to learn. You will not be reproved and that is a danger to you. Now go read the book "The Other Side of Calvinism" where real research is given in context and of a volume that cannot be done here on CC.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You are here to teach and not to learn. You will not be reproved and that is a danger to you. Now go read the book "The Other Side of Calvinism" where real research is given in context and of a volume that cannot be done here on CC.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
-
1
- Show all
So, you are trying to instruct me, yet are criticizing me for presenting information to others here, and educating them on what Reformed theology teaches, so that the misrepresentations can be identified as such, whether they agree with it or not.
Can you spell HYPOCRITE?
A hypocrite applies standards to others that he does not apply to himself. You criticize me for teaching others (if that is what I do) yet you are trying to teach me.
Additionally, you are not the one who assesses my faith. I have only one judge, and that is God. I have no doubt about my salvation. The Word of God is my external witness, and the Holy Spirit is my internal witness.
Reformed theology does reflect Scripture, better than Arminian theology, which seeks to deny that God the Father has elected a particular people, that the Son redeemed, and that the Holy Spirit applies this redemption to.
Instead, they twist it around to claim that they chose God, and God chose them as a result, which means, in essence that God chooses no one. And this is in denial of many Scriptures, not the least of which is 1 Cor 1:26ff, which states that God chooses weak individuals to display his glory more clearly.
Additionally, free willer theology teaches that you must wring faith and repentance out of a stony heart, in order to receive a heart of flesh that wants to love and obey God.
Good luck with that.
This is decisional regeneration and it is BOOOGUS.
The reality is that God regenerates the hardened sinner, giving him a heart of flesh to replace his heart of stone. This heart of flesh produces faith and repentance.
Really, this is the heart of the matter. Does God really give salvation, or not? Is he both the author and finisher of the believers' faith, or not?
Anyways I've said this multiple times. You guys still haven't given me anything meaningful in regards to addressing this, except to keep asserting that your tradition is correct, and that I am unteachable. I am speaking to stone walls.
Can you spell HYPOCRITE?
A hypocrite applies standards to others that he does not apply to himself. You criticize me for teaching others (if that is what I do) yet you are trying to teach me.
Additionally, you are not the one who assesses my faith. I have only one judge, and that is God. I have no doubt about my salvation. The Word of God is my external witness, and the Holy Spirit is my internal witness.
Reformed theology does reflect Scripture, better than Arminian theology, which seeks to deny that God the Father has elected a particular people, that the Son redeemed, and that the Holy Spirit applies this redemption to.
Instead, they twist it around to claim that they chose God, and God chose them as a result, which means, in essence that God chooses no one. And this is in denial of many Scriptures, not the least of which is 1 Cor 1:26ff, which states that God chooses weak individuals to display his glory more clearly.
Additionally, free willer theology teaches that you must wring faith and repentance out of a stony heart, in order to receive a heart of flesh that wants to love and obey God.
Good luck with that.
This is decisional regeneration and it is BOOOGUS.
The reality is that God regenerates the hardened sinner, giving him a heart of flesh to replace his heart of stone. This heart of flesh produces faith and repentance.
Really, this is the heart of the matter. Does God really give salvation, or not? Is he both the author and finisher of the believers' faith, or not?
Anyways I've said this multiple times. You guys still haven't given me anything meaningful in regards to addressing this, except to keep asserting that your tradition is correct, and that I am unteachable. I am speaking to stone walls.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
So, you are trying to instruct me, yet are criticizing me for presenting information to others here, and educating them on what Reformed theology teaches, so that the misrepresentations can be identified as such, whether they agree with it or not.
Can you spell HYPOCRITE?
A hypocrite applies standards to others that he does not apply to himself. You criticize me for teaching others (if that is what I do) yet you are trying to teach me.
Additionally, you are not the one who assesses my faith. I have only one judge, and that is God. I have no doubt about my salvation. The Word of God is my external witness, and the Holy Spirit is my internal witness.
Reformed theology does reflect Scripture, better than Arminian theology, which seeks to deny that God the Father has elected a particular people, that the Son redeemed, and that the Holy Spirit applies this redemption to.
Instead, they twist it around to claim that they chose God, and God chose them as a result, which means, in essence that God chooses no one. And this is in denial of many Scriptures, not the least of which is 1 Cor 1:26ff, which states that God chooses weak individuals to display his glory more clearly.
Additionally, free willer theology teaches that you must wring faith and repentance out of a stony heart, in order to receive a heart of flesh that wants to love and obey God.
Good luck with that.
This is decisional regeneration and it is BOOOGUS.
The reality is that God regenerates the hardened sinner, giving him a heart of flesh to replace his heart of stone. This heart of flesh produces faith and repentance.
Really, this is the heart of the matter. Does God really give salvation, or not? Is he both the author and finisher of the believers' faith, or not?
Anyways I've said this multiple times. You guys still haven't given me anything meaningful in regards to addressing this, except to keep asserting that your tradition is correct, and that I am unteachable. I am speaking to stone walls.
Can you spell HYPOCRITE?
A hypocrite applies standards to others that he does not apply to himself. You criticize me for teaching others (if that is what I do) yet you are trying to teach me.
Additionally, you are not the one who assesses my faith. I have only one judge, and that is God. I have no doubt about my salvation. The Word of God is my external witness, and the Holy Spirit is my internal witness.
Reformed theology does reflect Scripture, better than Arminian theology, which seeks to deny that God the Father has elected a particular people, that the Son redeemed, and that the Holy Spirit applies this redemption to.
Instead, they twist it around to claim that they chose God, and God chose them as a result, which means, in essence that God chooses no one. And this is in denial of many Scriptures, not the least of which is 1 Cor 1:26ff, which states that God chooses weak individuals to display his glory more clearly.
Additionally, free willer theology teaches that you must wring faith and repentance out of a stony heart, in order to receive a heart of flesh that wants to love and obey God.
Good luck with that.
This is decisional regeneration and it is BOOOGUS.
The reality is that God regenerates the hardened sinner, giving him a heart of flesh to replace his heart of stone. This heart of flesh produces faith and repentance.
Really, this is the heart of the matter. Does God really give salvation, or not? Is he both the author and finisher of the believers' faith, or not?
Anyways I've said this multiple times. You guys still haven't given me anything meaningful in regards to addressing this, except to keep asserting that your tradition is correct, and that I am unteachable. I am speaking to stone walls.
Did Adam have a choice to sin or not to sin in the garden?
Did Jesus teach that even evil men could do good things?
It's not Calvinism that is the problem. It is Calvinists that are the problem.
Reminds me of the old cat that sat on a hot stove. He so overlearned his lesson that he never sat down again.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
By the way, Laurence Vance is a member of Grace Evangelical Society, which is a heretical group that claims mere intellectual assent is real faith, and is the sole cause of salvation.
The guys associated with this type of thinking include Zane Hodges and Robert Wilkin.
They seek to minimize the content of a real faith to nothing more than the knowledge that this guy, Jesus Christ, can give you eternal life. That's it. You don't need to know about his atoning sacrifice on the Cross or his resurrection. These are nice things to know, but all you really need to know is that some guy, Jesus Christ, can give you eternal life.
And, they teach that faith is mere intellectual assent, and not placing your confidence in Jesus as Lord and Savior.
Basically, they teach carnal Christianity..that it is perfectly fine to profess faith, and go on to live an unproductive Christian life for the rest of your days. They deny Lordship Salvation in the most plain terms. They do not believe that works are the fruit of a genuine faith.
This is a false teaching, and therefore you are promoting false teachings.
Why in the world would you be promoting a group that believes in the "crossless gospel"?
Here's a few articles for those who want to know:
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/reviews/free-grace-theology/
https://www.gotquestions.org/free-grace.html
http://www.the-highway.com/sandeman_Haykin.html
Watch out for the swill that others try to feed you here.
It is clear from the book of James that true faith is accompanied by good works, which justify the believer in the eyes of men. They show their faith as being genuine.
The guys associated with this type of thinking include Zane Hodges and Robert Wilkin.
They seek to minimize the content of a real faith to nothing more than the knowledge that this guy, Jesus Christ, can give you eternal life. That's it. You don't need to know about his atoning sacrifice on the Cross or his resurrection. These are nice things to know, but all you really need to know is that some guy, Jesus Christ, can give you eternal life.
And, they teach that faith is mere intellectual assent, and not placing your confidence in Jesus as Lord and Savior.
Basically, they teach carnal Christianity..that it is perfectly fine to profess faith, and go on to live an unproductive Christian life for the rest of your days. They deny Lordship Salvation in the most plain terms. They do not believe that works are the fruit of a genuine faith.
This is a false teaching, and therefore you are promoting false teachings.
Why in the world would you be promoting a group that believes in the "crossless gospel"?
Here's a few articles for those who want to know:
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/reviews/free-grace-theology/
https://www.gotquestions.org/free-grace.html
http://www.the-highway.com/sandeman_Haykin.html
Watch out for the swill that others try to feed you here.
It is clear from the book of James that true faith is accompanied by good works, which justify the believer in the eyes of men. They show their faith as being genuine.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
I am not sure how you are using the phrase "hard shell Calvinist".
Yes, Adam had a choice not to sin. He had original righteousness. No mere man after Adam has the same ability. They are contaminated with original sin until they are regenerated.
Total depravity does not mean that men are as evil as they could be. God restrains their sinfulness. It does mean that every aspect of their lives are affected by the Fall. Read Romans 1 for an example of God removing the restraints from evil men so they manifest their true depravity more fully.
And, why did you refer me to Vance, who believes in the crossless gospel? If you have doctrinal discernment, why would you refer me to someone who promotes easy believism, and believes that works are not a necessary evidence of a true faith?
Yes, Adam had a choice not to sin. He had original righteousness. No mere man after Adam has the same ability. They are contaminated with original sin until they are regenerated.
Total depravity does not mean that men are as evil as they could be. God restrains their sinfulness. It does mean that every aspect of their lives are affected by the Fall. Read Romans 1 for an example of God removing the restraints from evil men so they manifest their true depravity more fully.
And, why did you refer me to Vance, who believes in the crossless gospel? If you have doctrinal discernment, why would you refer me to someone who promotes easy believism, and believes that works are not a necessary evidence of a true faith?
-
2
- Show all
Oh my. The way you speak evil of other men of God is quite troubling.
Suggesting you read the work of a scholar on the subject of Calvinism is not promoting any sectarian affiliation.
You are quick to condemn and demonstrate no compassion toward others. Is that how you see Jesus? Cold, hard and vindictive?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Suggesting you read the work of a scholar on the subject of Calvinism is not promoting any sectarian affiliation.
You are quick to condemn and demonstrate no compassion toward others. Is that how you see Jesus? Cold, hard and vindictive?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
-
1
-
1
-
1
- Show all