Not By Works
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We obey ( sometimes), we are obedient (sometimes), we adhere to His commandments (sometimes). But wen we start the salvation process correctly and fulfilling pisteuo correctly, we eventually recieve the Spirit of Christ. Then and only then, are we seen as obedient all the time because we are seen as Jesus, justified!
If the call of the Father is met with " believe" and recieve understanding, that justification will not happen . Can't skirt the altar. Obedience then becomes a none issue.
I'm not unteachable. Whatever is good and is right and is profitable, that i will follow but i can not go back to where i'm from unless my eyes are open to it; but it is difficult because when i came from it, i said my eyes have been opened.
Isa 30:19People of Zion, who live in Jerusalem, you will weep no more. How gracious he will be when you cry for help! As soon as he hears, he will answer you. 20Although the Lord gives you the bread of adversity and the water of affliction, your teachers will be hidden no more; with your own eyes you will see them. 21Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, “This is the way; walk in it.” 22Then you will desecrate your idols overlaid with silver and your images covered with gold; you will throw them away like a menstrual cloth and say to them, “Away with you!”
Isa 30:19People of Zion, who live in Jerusalem, you will weep no more. How gracious he will be when you cry for help! As soon as he hears, he will answer you. 20Although the Lord gives you the bread of adversity and the water of affliction, your teachers will be hidden no more; with your own eyes you will see them. 21Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, “This is the way; walk in it.” 22Then you will desecrate your idols overlaid with silver and your images covered with gold; you will throw them away like a menstrual cloth and say to them, “Away with you!”
Mmhh,
the rich young ruler acknowledged Jesus as Lord (Good master) but was not considered righteous for failure to sell what he had so that he can share it with the poor, remember? Zacchaeous shared what he had with the poor, so it is not about calling Jesus Lord Lord but doing.
the rich young ruler acknowledged Jesus as Lord (Good master) but was not considered righteous for failure to sell what he had so that he can share it with the poor, remember? Zacchaeous shared what he had with the poor, so it is not about calling Jesus Lord Lord but doing.
Zacchaeus put his faith in Jesus, hence why he shared his wealth.
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Yeah there are a lot of verses to consider, ty for the reply.
Like each verse means something different for each of us, not COMPLETELY different but the way we hang on them is a bit different I think. Also factoring in maturity, personal calling, etc, etc.
To one for instance doing something for the least of these may legitimately be giving someone food or clothing and they make that their life mission in the physical sense. To another it could be more in a spiritual sense. I cannot judge which one is prescribed because I think it depends on the person. You know when there's an open door, if you skip a bunch of them and just do what YOU want, I'd be leery personally.
Like each verse means something different for each of us, not COMPLETELY different but the way we hang on them is a bit different I think. Also factoring in maturity, personal calling, etc, etc.
To one for instance doing something for the least of these may legitimately be giving someone food or clothing and they make that their life mission in the physical sense. To another it could be more in a spiritual sense. I cannot judge which one is prescribed because I think it depends on the person. You know when there's an open door, if you skip a bunch of them and just do what YOU want, I'd be leery personally.
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What you are saying is right somehow, surrendering to the Lord, obeying, loving, believing and trusting, faith, all mean the same thing; but we don't start the process but it is something that comes from the heart of a man (It is how God created man) even unknowingly- the reason the bible says "created for good works from the beginning".
A real example:
An infant born today has 100% faith/good works/belief and trust in Christ and the most learned man has 0% faith/good works/belief and trust in Christ.
Matt 11:25At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
God also says, He ordained praise and worship in the mouths of infants. And, God says unless we change and become like them, we shall not inherit the kingdom.
Now, i have a question for you:
Q. If a 1 year old child dies now (God forbid),are they saved? If they are, did they partake in this salvation process that you are bringing forth?
A real example:
An infant born today has 100% faith/good works/belief and trust in Christ and the most learned man has 0% faith/good works/belief and trust in Christ.
Matt 11:25At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
God also says, He ordained praise and worship in the mouths of infants. And, God says unless we change and become like them, we shall not inherit the kingdom.
Now, i have a question for you:
Q. If a 1 year old child dies now (God forbid),are they saved? If they are, did they partake in this salvation process that you are bringing forth?
Those who are His will obey Him , unbelievers do not obey Him , they are dead , we are alive IN Him , the Holy Spirit helps us...
We cannot obey perfectly because we are not Jesus , but our will to obey is so strong ...
We cannot obey in everything all at once or else we would have no need for instructions from Scripture , we are a work in progress...
There are things I used to do when I was born again four years ago that I would not do now , why ? , because I am growing in knowledge of how my Lord wants me to walk...
Why do you think God gives us His grace and mercy new every morning ? , because we need it...
We cannot obey perfectly because we are not Jesus , but our will to obey is so strong ...
We cannot obey in everything all at once or else we would have no need for instructions from Scripture , we are a work in progress...
There are things I used to do when I was born again four years ago that I would not do now , why ? , because I am growing in knowledge of how my Lord wants me to walk...
Why do you think God gives us His grace and mercy new every morning ? , because we need it...
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How do you come to this conclusion?
Even without the presence of Jesus, if Zacchaeus had the same change of heart towards others (neighbors) and did what he did, salvation would still come to him and his house hold because Jesus did not physically tell him to do that, he had a change of heart.
The one that has a change of heart in the opposite is said to have denied faith:
I Tim 5:7Give the people these instructions, so that no one may be open to blame. 8Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
Even without the presence of Jesus, if Zacchaeus had the same change of heart towards others (neighbors) and did what he did, salvation would still come to him and his house hold because Jesus did not physically tell him to do that, he had a change of heart.
The one that has a change of heart in the opposite is said to have denied faith:
I Tim 5:7Give the people these instructions, so that no one may be open to blame. 8Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
We all start from the point of being in Him. Unbelievers walk out by disobeying Him but the one who remains in Him and perseveres to the end, will be victorious.
What do you mean we can not obey perfectly? The command is to love one another and it is not burdensome.
If loving others as yourself is too much then don't love yourself that much.
It doesn't mean going out and hugging everyone and providing for their needs, but once in a while, people will come to you with needs, whether material, spiritual or emotional- if you are in a position to help, just do it without thinking of heaven or eternal life but out of the abundance in your heart. Seek forgiveness from those that you know you've hurt and reconcile with those that hurt you.
If you try to put a 1 year old child through your salvation process (believing and then obeying) you'll fail. But a child doesn't know hate. All manner of sin comes from hate including gluttony, sexual immorality and idolatry.
What do you mean we can not obey perfectly? The command is to love one another and it is not burdensome.
If loving others as yourself is too much then don't love yourself that much.
It doesn't mean going out and hugging everyone and providing for their needs, but once in a while, people will come to you with needs, whether material, spiritual or emotional- if you are in a position to help, just do it without thinking of heaven or eternal life but out of the abundance in your heart. Seek forgiveness from those that you know you've hurt and reconcile with those that hurt you.
If you try to put a 1 year old child through your salvation process (believing and then obeying) you'll fail. But a child doesn't know hate. All manner of sin comes from hate including gluttony, sexual immorality and idolatry.
Yes.
Heb 5:7During the days of Jesus’ earthly life, He offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the One who could save Him from death, and He was heard because of His reverence. 8Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from what He suffered. 9And having been made perfect, He became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey Him
Heb 5:7During the days of Jesus’ earthly life, He offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the One who could save Him from death, and He was heard because of His reverence. 8Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from what He suffered. 9And having been made perfect, He became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey Him
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Of course they would've saved. They must reach the age of accountability. And only God would know when that is.
And surrender as in saving Faith or pisteuo is not the same as obedience, love, believing, trusting. A surrendered life, if accepted and sealed by God will produce trust, love, obedience, believing. So I don't think your understanding the importance of fulfilling pisteuo correctly, from the beginning. None of those other things alone will produce a sealed vessel.
And surrender as in saving Faith or pisteuo is not the same as obedience, love, believing, trusting. A surrendered life, if accepted and sealed by God will produce trust, love, obedience, believing. So I don't think your understanding the importance of fulfilling pisteuo correctly, from the beginning. None of those other things alone will produce a sealed vessel.
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I get you but i was urging you to look at it differently.
There's no other name in heaven and earth through which we are saved apart from the name above all names, that of Jesus. This is true to all human groups including children.
I will bring you back to an infant who is equally saved by Jesus. Does this pisteuo apply to a child for their salvation? How?
There's no other name in heaven and earth through which we are saved apart from the name above all names, that of Jesus. This is true to all human groups including children.
I will bring you back to an infant who is equally saved by Jesus. Does this pisteuo apply to a child for their salvation? How?