Are ghosts / spirits just demons?

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calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,516
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#21
This suggests it wasn’t Samuel, but a demon.

https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-too...host-of-samuel-appear-to-saul-after-his-death

Remember also that Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus but they were in their
glorified bodies. Samuel was not!
I think thats because most of the dead peoples spirits/souls remain mainly asleep in another realm on earth and have to wait for the reresection. The dead do not go straight to heaven or hell. Thats a myth/fairy tale. we must wait for Jesus.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,798
7,780
113
#22
We are also told we are "compassed around" by those who have gone before.
They are merely in another dimension.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,798
7,780
113
#23
From my reading and the teaching i have heard it was Samuel and Samuel didn't want to be called up, thus came the prophecy of Saul's fall.
 
3

3angelsmsg

Guest
#24
From my reading and the teaching i have heard it was Samuel and Samuel didn't want to be called up, thus came the prophecy of Saul's fall.
It was definitely not Samuel. Saul perceived that it was Samuel. The dead are sleeping and know nothing. It is demon that transform him into your dead relatives. Jesus referred to the death as timeless sleep.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
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77
#25
Most of the Ghost hunt shows I've seen look ridiculous and unconvincing. People shout and scream about every creak and shadow they
see and hear. Use contraptions to ''communicate'' and receive banal ''messages'' from beyond that have no useful information content. The biggest giveaway for me is the statement at the beginning that the show is for entertainment only. If viewers want to be entertained in this way there are plenty of Horror films around that include better Actors. I believe there are spirits but whether they are dead people, Demons or both I have no idea. I do believe its an area we should avoid meddling with.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,798
7,780
113
#26
"The dead are sleeping" doesn't stand up to scripture, "absent from the body is present with the Lord", does.
We have a church around here that teaches 'soul sleep", they are wrong.
 

Bingo

Well-known member
Feb 9, 2019
9,219
4,755
113
#27
"And, does not the 'man-mind' conjure up untold notions, generally brought
about by ones own personality character. The entertainment world has more
than likely influenced minds into accepting about anything. The mind absorbs
physical observation far more than the unseen. Here lies the dilemma of many."


cowhand1 - Copy (2) - Copy.gif
 
3

3angelsmsg

Guest
#28
"The dead are sleeping" doesn't stand up to scripture, "absent from the body is present with the Lord", does.
We have a church around here that teaches 'soul sleep", they are wrong.
Your understanding of doctrine should include the looking at all scripture in the bible on topic you are interested in.

There are some scripture which is more difficult to understand. Peter wrote that there are things which Paul wrote which difficult to understand and the unlearned their wrestle with it to their own destruction.

There are so much deception on the topic of death. People are still believing the lie of the devil right in the beginning. 'You shall surely not die'. And God alone has immortality. That why many people will be deceived because the devil will come as angel of light and transform into dead relatives and claim things that goes contrary to the law of God.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
16,724
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#29
"The dead are sleeping" doesn't stand up to scripture, "absent from the body is present with the Lord", does.
We have a church around here that teaches 'soul sleep", they are wrong.
In Paul's consciousness, being absent from the body: Presto - It is the Day of the Lord and the resurrection. There is no time reference observed in sleep.
 
3

3angelsmsg

Guest
#30
In the story of Saul where the witch calls up the familiar spirit. There are several important scriptures to consider before we examine the actual story, recorded in 1 Samuel 28:7-25. The first is the verse immediately prior, which informs the reader that “when Saul inquired of the Lord, the Lord did not answer him, either by dreams or by Urim or by the prophets” (1 Samuel 28:6). God was refusing to communicate with Saul through any means, including His prophets. Samuel, even if he had been still alive, would have had nothing to tell Saul. From this we can infer that the “Samuel” who communicated with Saul was not a prophet of God speaking from beyond the grave.

Another important passage is in Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10, which says plainly that “the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing…for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going.” When we die, we enter a state the Bible likens to “sleep” (1 Thessalonians 4:13-14), remaining unconscious until the resurrections at or after Christ’s return. There is certainly no soul that lives on, able to communicate with the rest of the living.

Knowing this, the entity Saul communicated with could not possibly have been the ghost or spirit of Samuel, or any other human being. That leaves only the spirit realm as a possibility—and given that God had explicitly cut off communication between Himself (and by extension, His angels) and Saul (compare 1 Samuel 13:14; 28:6 and Isaiah 59:2), we are forced to conclude that the “Samuel” conjured up by the medium of En Dor was a demonic spirit masquerading as God’s prophet.

We might ask, “If it was really a demon communicating with Saul, why did it tell him the truth?” (1 Samuel 28:16-19; compare 13:9-14; 15:8-9, 26; 31:2-4). We must remember that the primary goal of Satan and his demons is to destroy us. By selectively telling Saul pieces of the truth, the demon posing as Samuel was able to depress him to the point where Saul was no longer able to stand up (1 Samuel 28:20).

The demon used parts of the truth, while posing as a man of God, to paint a picture of hopelessness. “And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works” (2 Corinthians 11:14-15).
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
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#31
Hi Tasha, Looks to me there are only two kingdoms, His, and the wrong one. There is the Spiritual realm to both, I am up to about 20+ testimonies from folks who have been reassured of eternity by visitations and indications from and of loved ones who have gone before.
Bless you, in Jesus name
it happens some times, in these passages being of the rightly side of the realm.

Matt 17
3Suddenly Moses and Elijah appeared before them, talking with Jesus. 4Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If You wish, I will put up three shelters: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,974
113
#32
This suggests it wasn’t Samuel, but a demon.

https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-too...host-of-samuel-appear-to-saul-after-his-death

(((Remember also that Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus but they were in their
glorified bodies. Samuel was not!
)))
=================================================
the 'first' thing that we take notice of is,
GEN. 3:4.
And the serpent said unto the woman, You shall not surely die: -
this is a very BIG LIE, whether it be 'reincarnation, the happy hunting ground, or ghosts, or a myriad of other
beliefs that state that man doesn't 'really die', but instead we GO SOME WHERE ELSE'...
but,
the Scripture says,
ECC. 9:5.
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward;
for the memory of them is forgotten.
JOHN 3:13.
And no man has ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even 'The Son of man' which is in heaven.
every 'man' has to die, for it is written;
HEB. 9:27.
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
and again,
1TIM. 6:16.
Who only has immortality, dwelling in The Light which no man can approach unto; whom 'no man' hath seen,
nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
MATT. 17:9.
And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the (((vision))) to no man,
until The Son of man be risen again from the dead.
no man could have ever ascended into heaven - like the scriptures says, 'the transfiguration' was a (((vision)))...
and again;
HEB. 11:13.
These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them,
and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Grace and Peace precious Miri unto you, and many blessing upon your heart...
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#33
)))
=================================================
the 'first' thing that we take notice of is,
GEN. 3:4.
And the serpent said unto the woman, You shall not surely die: -
this is a very BIG LIE, whether it be 'reincarnation, the happy hunting ground, or ghosts, or a myriad of other
beliefs that state that man doesn't 'really die', but instead we GO SOME WHERE ELSE'...
but,
the Scripture says,
ECC. 9:5.
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward;
for the memory of them is forgotten.
JOHN 3:13.
And no man has ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even 'The Son of man' which is in heaven.
every 'man' has to die, for it is written;
HEB. 9:27.
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
and again,
1TIM. 6:16.
Who only has immortality, dwelling in The Light which no man can approach unto; whom 'no man' hath seen,
nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
MATT. 17:9.
And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the (((vision))) to no man,
until The Son of man be risen again from the dead.
no man could have ever ascended into heaven - like the scriptures says, 'the transfiguration' was a (((vision)))...
and again;
HEB. 11:13.
These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them,
and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Grace and Peace precious Miri unto you, and many blessing upon your heart...
and what was that vision of an illusion or was Moses and Elijah actually talking to Jesus?

On that matt 17:9 I notice what you posted comes from the KJV, wonder why that bible is the only one that says the Son of man be risen again from the dead, again is that implying Jesus dead twice?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,131
29,444
113
#34
"The dead are sleeping" doesn't stand up to scripture, "absent from the body is present with the Lord", does.
We have a church around here that teaches 'soul sleep", they are wrong.
Present with the Lord, yes, but does that exclude being in a state like sleep? You assume it does. Jesus called death sleep multiple times. Would you say He was wrong too?
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
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#35
Present with the Lord, yes, but does that exclude being in a state like sleep? You assume it does. Jesus called death sleep multiple times. Would you say He was wrong too?
Yes he said that of Lazarus, though I am curious of Moses and Elijah speaking to Jesus. A Vision it was but it seems a real vision as in spirits talking to Jesus.
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
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#36
I think that individual resurrections do not invalidate the general resurrection to come, Elijah had risen a Widow’s Son, Paul had risen a man who fell from a window, the saints at the resurrection. just because God had chosen to raise Moses and elijah to speak to Jesus doesn’t invalidate death is like sleep.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,798
7,780
113
#37
I have thought being present with the Lord meant in His realm, the Spiritual "dimension" as we know there are at least 11, last I heard, there are some old Jewish texts that acknowledge this and further say it was appointed to us to only be able to enter the first 4.
Jesus was speaking of that time , before his death on the cross, and just as it says "all things are become new". from what I discern.
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,974
113
#38
I think that individual resurrections do not invalidate the general resurrection to come, Elijah had risen a Widow’s Son, Paul had risen a man who fell from a window, the saints at the resurrection. just because God had chosen to raise Moses and elijah to speak to Jesus doesn’t invalidate death is like sleep.
================================================
Jam,
it's a ''vision'' of the two great prophets in God's "future" Kingdom -
LUKE 13:28.
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob,
and (((all the prophets))), in The Kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
the word, again, in the KJV is 'superfluous', it simply means, 'to rise-up'...
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#39
================================================
Jam,
it's a ''vision'' of the two great prophets in God's "future" Kingdom -
LUKE 13:28.
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob,
and (((all the prophets))), in The Kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
the word, again, in the KJV is 'superfluous', it simply means, 'to rise-up'...
In your opinion in the vision was Jesus actually talking to Moses and Elijah?
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
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#40
What is interesting about what the disciples saw wasn’t all the prophets but only two.

LUKE 13:28
There will be weeping and gnashing of the teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you are being cast out.