Not By Works
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Romans 5:19
For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
Romans 11:32
For God has bound up all in disobedience, that He may show mercy to all.
Romans 14:4
Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
Romans 5:19
For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
Romans 11:32
For God has bound up all in disobedience, that He may show mercy to all.
Romans 14:4
Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
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How do you put grace and obedience together in the same sentence like that?
(noun) · Your Grace (noun) · the Graces (plural noun)
(noun) · Your Grace (noun) · the Graces (plural noun)
- simple elegance or refinement of movement.
- . courteous goodwill.
- (in Christian belief) the free and unmerited favor of God, as manifested in the salvation of sinners and the bestowal of blessings.
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MOTIVE!
IF YOU DO IT BECAUSE YOU THINK YOU HAVE TO OBEY HIM, OR YOU LOSE YOUR SALVATION, TO BE IN PERSEVERANCE;
YOU ARE WRONG, BECAUSE OF THE MOTIVE, AND WRONG MOTIVES ARE WOOD, HAY, AND STUBBLE, THAT WILL BE BURNED UP.
THE ONLY PURE MOTIVE FOR OBEDIENCE, IS BECAUSE YOU WANT TO SHOW LOVE FOR HIM. LOVE IS THE MOTIVE FOR OBEDIENCE.
John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.
Jesus says we have to persevere until the end; Jesus says we need grace. You will not get to heaven without the grace of final perseverance. 
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At least you're persevering.
Like I said before, PERSEVERING FOR THE WRONG MOTIVE, is Filthy Rags according to GOD.
IT HAS TO BE PURE LOVE as the MOTIVE, or it is worthless.
We are mostly evangelical types of Christians, which means we believe all of the BIBLE was inspired by GOD. And it should be interpreted LITERALLY, unless there is an obvious symbolism to it, such as:
Deuteronomy 4:24 (ESV)
24 For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.
That does not mean HE literally is a BLAST FURNACE.
One of the Verses that WE TAKE LITERALLY, and Completely is this VERSE:
2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
Jesus did it all! He completely and unconditionally SAVED us as a FREE GIFT before time began.
NOTHING WE CAN DO TO ADD TO IT. Our OBEDIENCE is purely as an act of LOVE, and even that we do not get credit for that act:
Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
His LOVE comes forth out of us, in the form of LOVE FOR GOD, and LOVE FOR OUR BRETHREN which manifest in our actions.
No, we give the GLORY to GOD for even those actions. You appear to be patting yourself on the BACK.
Philippians 4:13 (HCSB)
13 I am able to do all things through Him who strengthens me.
2 Corinthians 12:9 (NJB)
9 but he has answered me, ‘My grace is enough for you: for power is at full stretch in weakness.' It is, then, about my weaknesses that I am happiest of all to boast, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me;
Galatians 2:20 (HCSB)
20 and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
Therefore not saved before the begining of time..
As you correctly say, never really born again.
Therefore salvation has not been lost because they never had it, if they never had it the reason is because they have not placed their faith in Jesus for forgiveness of sins.
The sins that separates us from God.
Why the temple curtain was torn in two.
As a result of faith and having been saved from the beginning of time we will persevere. It's faith that we have chosen and as a result we will persevere.
So if God has chosen us before the begining of time it is him who keeps us and not ourselves.
So finally can we lose our salvation our born again status?
If so then your two posts above contradict.
You are either born again or not. Because as you say "Saved before the begining of time"
As you correctly say, never really born again.
Therefore salvation has not been lost because they never had it, if they never had it the reason is because they have not placed their faith in Jesus for forgiveness of sins.
The sins that separates us from God.
Why the temple curtain was torn in two.
As a result of faith and having been saved from the beginning of time we will persevere. It's faith that we have chosen and as a result we will persevere.
So if God has chosen us before the begining of time it is him who keeps us and not ourselves.
So finally can we lose our salvation our born again status?
If so then your two posts above contradict.
You are either born again or not. Because as you say "Saved before the begining of time"
Jesus says we have to persevere until the end; Jesus says we need grace. You will not get to heaven without the grace of final perseverance.
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THEN GIVE HIM THE GLORY and NOT YOURSELF.
You come in here puffed up with Pride, Because YOU persevere, patting yourself on the back.
Your assessment of the meaning of that word IS WRONG:
CHRISTIANS will produce different amounts of good works, AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION, which is a DONE DEAL by JESUS HIMSELF.
Matthew 13:8-9 (HCSB)
8 Still others fell on good ground and produced a crop: some 100, some 60, and some 30 times ⌊what was sown⌋.
9 Anyone who has ears should listen!”
You have a lot to learn, Grasshopper.
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