Is unconditional election biblical?
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Everything happens for a reason and that reason is God’s decreed will. I asked the question on twitter did God decree the holocaust and a Brother posted this...”Everything God does is right, just, and for His glory, regardless of whether or not I understand or appreciate it, from the standpoint of a finite man carrying a sin nature in a fallen world. I cannot fathom a world in which an absolutely omniscient and omnipotent God does...”
You’re okay with the Jews suffering for nothing? Wow! That’s anti-Semitism.
You’re okay with the Jews suffering for nothing? Wow! That’s anti-Semitism.
Everything happens for a reason and that reason is God’s decreed will. I asked the question on twitter did God decree the holocaust and a Brother posted this...”Everything God does is right, just, and for His glory, regardless of whether or not I understand or appreciate it, from the standpoint of a finite man carrying a sin nature in a fallen world. I cannot fathom a world in which an absolutely omniscient and omnipotent God does...”
You’re okay with the Jews suffering for nothing? Wow! That’s anti-Semitism.
You’re okay with the Jews suffering for nothing? Wow! That’s anti-Semitism.
I believe, since we live in a fallen, sin filled world, bad things naturally happen. Murder happens. Disease happens. Of course, God knows about it. He’s just not the one causing it. God knowing and God causing are not the same things.
This is why Paul states that we groan within ourselves waiting for the day of adoption, the redemption of our bodies and will no longer live in this world.
This is why Paul states that we groan within ourselves waiting for the day of adoption, the redemption of our bodies and will no longer live in this world.
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Well I guess Job was afflicted for nothing right?
God decrees all that comes to pass. A pagan king could see it. A pagan king accepted it. God uses primary and secondary causes to fulfill His will.
You are the one with the sick unbiblical view of God my friend. All this evil in the world that God could stop if He chose to, He allows it for no apparent reason whatsoever. That’s sick.
Good bye. Our convo is over.
God decrees all that comes to pass. A pagan king could see it. A pagan king accepted it. God uses primary and secondary causes to fulfill His will.
You are the one with the sick unbiblical view of God my friend. All this evil in the world that God could stop if He chose to, He allows it for no apparent reason whatsoever. That’s sick.
Good bye. Our convo is over.
God allows things to happen because we live in a fallen world and we suffer the consequences thereof instead of the blessings we could be enjoying.
It is obvious you do not believe in the power of prayer. Why pray? If God’s decreed everything to happen then our prayers are for nothing.
It is obvious you do not believe in the power of prayer. Why pray? If God’s decreed everything to happen then our prayers are for nothing.
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exactly
unreasonable and untenable beliefs that are not found in scripture
not to mention accusatory and not open to discussion
much like what we see here
I do not get responses from the op because he does not allow women to be present when he 'teaches' (I think that was the excuse or some other ridiculous thing)
women are scum as we all know
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I would say your remarks presume we do not enjoy blessings. This is of course not the case.
Though I do agree with you about the question to the Calvinist, or TULIP defender; why pray when all things are predestined for only those God predetermined He would save, and those He predetermined unto damnation.
Calvinism, TULIP, is not supported by the Gospel. That's the bad news.
Though I do agree with you about the question to the Calvinist, or TULIP defender; why pray when all things are predestined for only those God predetermined He would save, and those He predetermined unto damnation.
Calvinism, TULIP, is not supported by the Gospel. That's the bad news.
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exactly
unreasonable and untenable beliefs that are not found in scripture
not to mention accusatory and not open to discussion
much like what we see here
I do not get responses from the op because he does not allow women to be present when he 'teaches' (I think that was the excuse or some other ridiculous thing)
women are scum as we all know
unreasonable and untenable beliefs that are not found in scripture
not to mention accusatory and not open to discussion
much like what we see here
I do not get responses from the op because he does not allow women to be present when he 'teaches' (I think that was the excuse or some other ridiculous thing)
women are scum as we all know
Bigoted preaching is not preaching. It's damnable egocentrism and pride in a pulpit.
The Saint Apostle Paul had women Apostles whom he credited in his epistles.
The nonsense that is fostered from Paul's instruction that women should be quiet in the church and that means women are not fit to teach or preach, a great surprise for all the Christian women in the world that do just that with God's leading, was an instruction pertaining to the women who wished clarification during the sermon to wait until it was over. To not interrupt the service with those questions.
Otherwise, Paul having women Apostles in his churches and with his blessing would be contradicting himself. Which didn't happen.
Misogynists are unrepentant sinners. And when presuming to be in the pulpit are there as wolves in sheep's wool who do not fool those who know them by the words they speak.
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While the picture of the old dude looks more like Scrooge, not really showing a Christian like attitude and appearance. I could be alright with the first part of the quote there. I'm not Calvinist so I really don't get all their beliefs, even though I have tried...I could agree with the God has foresight of those that will choose him and that is why they are the elect. In order to be able to choose though there has to be a choice. So are you saying that the ones that will Choose to Serve God are saved and the ones that will not choose God are not saved and God knows who they are. If so then I am on board with that....If you are saying that some people never have a choice either way, then well I can't be on board with that because the Bible teaches us differently.
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What I'm saying is all mankind deserves eternal punishment, as a result of being a descendant of Adam. Their minds and hearts are radically corrupted by the Fall. They do not desire spiritual things, including a relationship with God, unless God regenerates them. And, everyone who is regenerated responds in faith and repentance. There is a choice, but the choice is for God, because the heart has been changed by heart. The person no longer has the nature of the fallen man, which is to follow his spiritual father Adam, but has a new nature like Christ's that wants to love and please God.
All mankind willfully rejects God, unless a change of heart occurs. They need this heart of flesh.
God changes the heart of some people, as an act of grace, and doesn't change the heart of other people. He passes over them, and they suffer the justice they deserve. He is not obligated to extend mercy to anyone, but out of grace, he extends it to some individuals, who are the elect.
All mankind rejects God by default until they experience this new birth.
The concept of corporate guilt is another one of the teachings that free-willers deny. They cannot fathom that God would judge all mankind by Adam's act, and condemn them to eternal punishment. But, the reality is that all mankind was condemned through Adam's sin. This is clearly taught in Romans 5.
God elects to save some, and gives them a heart of flesh that causes them to desire Him. The only reason they desire him is due to this heart of flesh. Faith and repentance flows from it. They are joined to Jesus Christ, and become one with him, and start to produce spiritual fruit due to this union.
Just like Adam's sin was credited to all mankind, Jesus' righteousness is credited to the elect. This state is referred to as being "in Christ". The rest are not in Christ. They are still in Adam, until (and if) God regenerates them, giving them new life. Until then, they are spiritually dead due to Adam's sin.
I suggest reading Ephesians 2:1-10.
No, I do not believe God simply knows who will choose him, and saves those individuals based solely on their decision. God does know those individuals, but their election is unconditional, ie, not based on foreknowledge of their decision. Their decision would be to reject Him, unless he regenerates them.
Reformed theology teaches that God chooses unconditionally. Unconditionally means that he does not choose people according to foreknowledge of their choices. He chooses them based on foreknowledge in the sense that he fore-loves them. He regenerates them, giving them a heart of flesh, which responds to him in faith and repentance.
And, everyone that he gives this new heart to responds in faith and repentance. The rest never receive this new heart. And, they willingly reject God because they hate God. The only thing that changes this is the new birth, which takes the person out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light.
I realize the idea that God is sovereign over salvation is foreign to the free-willer mentality, and it is something they will not accept. It is especially hard for Westerners to accept this fact. But that is what Scripture teaches. I recommend reading the book of Romans in fine detail. Also, John 6, 10 and Ephesians 1.
Notice, if you read John 10, that Jesus' sheep believe because they are his sheep. They are not his sheep simply because they believe. John is clear in this.
And, you may want to look at the threads I've created in the past regarding unconditional election. I line up the Scriptural proofs in this regard on these threads.
All mankind willfully rejects God, unless a change of heart occurs. They need this heart of flesh.
God changes the heart of some people, as an act of grace, and doesn't change the heart of other people. He passes over them, and they suffer the justice they deserve. He is not obligated to extend mercy to anyone, but out of grace, he extends it to some individuals, who are the elect.
All mankind rejects God by default until they experience this new birth.
The concept of corporate guilt is another one of the teachings that free-willers deny. They cannot fathom that God would judge all mankind by Adam's act, and condemn them to eternal punishment. But, the reality is that all mankind was condemned through Adam's sin. This is clearly taught in Romans 5.
God elects to save some, and gives them a heart of flesh that causes them to desire Him. The only reason they desire him is due to this heart of flesh. Faith and repentance flows from it. They are joined to Jesus Christ, and become one with him, and start to produce spiritual fruit due to this union.
Just like Adam's sin was credited to all mankind, Jesus' righteousness is credited to the elect. This state is referred to as being "in Christ". The rest are not in Christ. They are still in Adam, until (and if) God regenerates them, giving them new life. Until then, they are spiritually dead due to Adam's sin.
I suggest reading Ephesians 2:1-10.
No, I do not believe God simply knows who will choose him, and saves those individuals based solely on their decision. God does know those individuals, but their election is unconditional, ie, not based on foreknowledge of their decision. Their decision would be to reject Him, unless he regenerates them.
Reformed theology teaches that God chooses unconditionally. Unconditionally means that he does not choose people according to foreknowledge of their choices. He chooses them based on foreknowledge in the sense that he fore-loves them. He regenerates them, giving them a heart of flesh, which responds to him in faith and repentance.
And, everyone that he gives this new heart to responds in faith and repentance. The rest never receive this new heart. And, they willingly reject God because they hate God. The only thing that changes this is the new birth, which takes the person out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light.
I realize the idea that God is sovereign over salvation is foreign to the free-willer mentality, and it is something they will not accept. It is especially hard for Westerners to accept this fact. But that is what Scripture teaches. I recommend reading the book of Romans in fine detail. Also, John 6, 10 and Ephesians 1.
Notice, if you read John 10, that Jesus' sheep believe because they are his sheep. They are not his sheep simply because they believe. John is clear in this.
And, you may want to look at the threads I've created in the past regarding unconditional election. I line up the Scriptural proofs in this regard on these threads.
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A better example would be Noah and the Flood.
Only eight people were saved through the Flood.
The rest drown.
God chose eight people. The number "8" is actually symbolic of new beginnings in Scripture.
Notice that only eight were saved. Is it because those eight were better?
Scripture notes that Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. His virtue certainly wasn't perfect. After he exited the Ark, he got drunk on wine and some inappropriate sexual act occurred.
In essence, he was the "new Adam" and in fact, similar language was used..he was commanded to go forth and populate the earth like the original Adam. Yet, he gets involved in sin right off the bat.
Anyways, my point is that God extends grace and that is why Noah was saved. It wasn't due to moral virtue...and eight were saved. Why wasn't a single person, of all the men women and children, saved other than Noah and his family?
Because God elected or chose to same THEM.
He could have saved others, and given them grace, but he did not.
And he only saved eight, which is a number of new beginnings. This is beyond mere coincidence.
Only eight people were saved through the Flood.
The rest drown.
God chose eight people. The number "8" is actually symbolic of new beginnings in Scripture.
Notice that only eight were saved. Is it because those eight were better?
Scripture notes that Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. His virtue certainly wasn't perfect. After he exited the Ark, he got drunk on wine and some inappropriate sexual act occurred.
In essence, he was the "new Adam" and in fact, similar language was used..he was commanded to go forth and populate the earth like the original Adam. Yet, he gets involved in sin right off the bat.
Anyways, my point is that God extends grace and that is why Noah was saved. It wasn't due to moral virtue...and eight were saved. Why wasn't a single person, of all the men women and children, saved other than Noah and his family?
Because God elected or chose to same THEM.
He could have saved others, and given them grace, but he did not.
And he only saved eight, which is a number of new beginnings. This is beyond mere coincidence.
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I'm still reading over your other post, and I am going to try to look at some of your other threads if time permits. Here is one question that I have pertaining to the flood....Didn't God allow the rest a chance to be saved and get on the ark? I mean, Didn't Noah preach to them and try to get them to get on the ark? Seems to me that God gave them all a choice, but all of them, except for the 8 on board the ark, made the wrong choice and drowned. Yet, that was their choice, right.
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Doesn't the reference to Hebrew numerology and the eight saved on the ark make it sound like Noah's ark is simply allegory, not a true accounting of a historic event?
What if Noah had twelve people in his family? Or ten?
What if Noah had twelve people in his family? Or ten?
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