Why I disregard "organized" religions

[Crusader4IHS]

Why I disregard “organized” religions.

I’ve attempted to read the Bible from cover to cover. I don’t believe I’m a stupid person. According to the few IQ test contrived by humans that I’ve taken in my 83 year lifetime, I usually score somewhat above average intelligence, whatever that’s worth? I have to say that If I understood 25% of it, that might be an overreach?

I read the Old Testament and ended up with more questions than answers. Most of the New Testament leaves me confused. I think I understand most of what Jesus taught. Having noticed the teachings of the several organized Christian denominations, I find often conflicted belief from one to the other. I’ve even seen animosity among them directed from one to the other. I see the “For Profit” TV Evangelicals, their lavish TV settings and churches and the life styles that have been revealed concerning their some of leadership. Often disheartening, to say the least!

So, I’ve determined that if I want to be a child of God and be saved to the “everlasting life,” my choices are to study hard and seek the teachings of the Bible from the more studied folk, or I can take the teachings of the Bible and Jesus in particular as I can determine the meanings, I can pray hard and often, confess my sins and hope I’ve found favor enough with the Lord to believe I’m saved to that everlasting life.” My only other choice is to live the sinful life without confession to God as I have the majority of my life, while feeling the calling of the Lord often also.

If “who so ever believeth in him shall have everlasting life” is all it really takes, why do I need the teachings of today’s humans who can’t even get agreement therewith among themselves? My only question at this point in my own church between my ears, is what are the “conditions” that determine “true” belief acceptable to my Lord? I’d love opinions about that from this forum.

Robo,
Thank you for your reflection. As Christians we know that Jesus is God and is love. You have run into the same quandary that many Protestant Christians eventually run into. What exactly does this scripture mean? We have many denominations with this animosity over certain beliefs. The core beliefs are there, absolutely. It can be frustrating with so many Christian denominations differing on things like baptism, do we baptize infants or not. Some do and some don't. We even have some who are ok with abortion! Thou shall not kill! How can there even be any disagreement there. What we have with so many denominations is a faith that people can find to fit their life and convenience, instead of faith that we conform our lives to even when it is inconvenient or difficult. You are on a spiritual journey for truth, because you believe God has given us objective truth, not relativism. Your answers lie within the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is the "Church" Jesus founded and given authority to teach His message. We have the scriptures! We have the equipment, but what do we do with the equipment is the question. This is where the Church comes in. I know as a Protestant Christian one would not even consider the Catholic Church because of what we were taught, but were those teachings about the Catholic Church accurate? There is a lot of misrepresentation about the Catholic Church. Come with an open mind and do your research, read the early church fathers and if you approach it openly you will probably become Catholic.

I will leave you with this from the Didache section 14.

1. On the Lord's Day of the Lord come together, break bread and hold Eucharist, after confessing your transgressions that your offering may be pure;
2. But let none who has a quarrel with his fellow join in your meeting until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice be not defiled.
3. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord, "In every place and time offer me a pure sacrifice, for I am a great king," saith the Lord, "and my name is wonderful among the heathen.

Jesus' real presence in the Catholic Eucharist is what the Apostles and early Christians believed. It was not symbolic. Open your eyes to the Catholic Church and you will find the truth and consistency of God's word.

May God bless you brother!

 

[dodgingstones]

Speaking of salvation only.... yes.
However, salvation is only the beginning of a Christians walk with Christ. All God saves, He saved for a purpose. Gifts dispensed by the Holy Spirit are dispensed for a purpose.

A new believer is to join with all believers in doing the work of the Kingdom. Not just be saved and then go sit in a corner somewhere.

A good tree/Christian needs to produce good fruit. Good works are not a PATH to salvation, they are the FRUIT of salvation, and we are to fulfill the purpose God purposed us for.

Those who stop at salvation only become as the lukewarm believers spoken of in Revelation.

Figure out what your purpose is and set about doing what you were purposed for.

B.T.W.
Christianity isn't a religion, it's a Faith!

 

[DesertWanderer]

Good words of advice, DesertWanderer, you stressed the imminency of the need to repent before it's too late. ...plus the lack of emphasis on using the KJV, it's good, but others are better!

I bet there are other translations which clarify different doctrines better than others. I believe the NET bible, for example, to be more a precise translation of the Greek text. But I was merely trying to help him get off a translation that people no longer understand. I am enthusiastic about helping him further, that is, if he wants the help.

 

[DesertWanderer]

But I have confessed all of my sins, all 83 years of them in prayer. I beg Christ's forgiveness. I praise him every day for the millions of blessings he's granted to me. His love in particular, his saving grace, his magnificent and heroic gift for me and all humanity on the cross and his blessing of giving me 60 years with my loving wife who I lost just a few weeks ago. I pray for my reunion with her, I question what more I need to do.

Apparently, you don't need to do anything. I misunderstood, brother. What a great testimonial. You've at least confessed Christ to me, and I'm very grateful to hear it. I am also saddened by your loss, but you will be with her soon enough. Now it's time for both of us to roll up our sleeves and start telling others about Him. Let's see who has the biggest vault of gold when we get to heaven. I'm already declaring you the winner!

 

[DB7]

I bet there are other translations which clarify different doctrines better than others. I believe the NET bible, for example, to be more a precise translation of the Greek text. But I was merely trying to help him get off a translation that people no longer understand. I am enthusiastic about helping him further, that is, if he wants the help.

Agreed, and thus, I've always recommended that people use a few different translations, in general. I have an 8 translation Bible of the New Testament. 8 paragraphs from each version, on one page. That's a hard copy, but there are many E-Bibles that do the same thing basically.

 

[DesertWanderer]

Agreed, and thus, I've always recommended that people use a few different translations, in general. I have an 8 translation Bible of the New Testament. 8 paragraphs from each version, on one page. That's a hard copy, but there are many E-Bibles that do the same thing basically.

That's great to know. Thank you. I'll check into that.

 

[DB7]

This statement is simply pathetic. Obviously you have no clue about the excellencies of the King James Bible, nor the errors and omissions of the NIV. So you have given some very poor advice, and I trust it will be ignored

Your statement was simply beneficial DesertWanderer, the KJV has many shortcomings, and thus, the modern translations are better suited to relatively new, or unsophisticated Christians. The KJV is a good translation for a specific purpose, just as the rest are, some are better than others depending on what is more suited to one's understanding or preference (formal equivalence, dynamic equivalence, paraphrase, colloquial , vernacular or formal language).
I hope that your advice gets heeded to.

 

[DesertWanderer]

This statement is simply pathetic. Obviously you have no clue about the excellencies of the King James Bible, nor the errors and omissions of the NIV. So you have given some very poor advice, and I trust it will be ignored

Here we go again. I really can't believe we're still having this discussion in 2019. I've heard it in the past over and over again how the King James version is the only translation worthy of reading. But what good is it if the reader can't understand it?

So if a person in Mexico can only read their bible in Spanish, are they destined for hell? Not to mention the other thousands of translations in the thousands of languages around the world.

I want you to brace yourself, okay. I'm going to reveal something that may be very shocking to you. Are you ready? The Holy Bible, the spoken inerrant word of God, has been recently translated into Arabic. Not just one dialect, but many. I'm really hoping you don't lose control over the fact that people in Saudi Arabia are secretly reading their bibles in something other than the King James version.

I hope you realize how silly you sound. You're trying to make the same case as the atheists: that there should only be one or two translations in order to preserve the Bible's meaning. But I will tell you the same thing that I tell any athiest with the same objection. Yes, there are a lot of translations of the Bible. But you know what. They all say the exact same thing. Hello in English is the same as bonjour in French is the same as buenos dias in Spanish.

 

[Miri]

Why I disregard “organized” religions.

I’ve attempted to read the Bible from cover to cover. I don’t believe I’m a stupid person. According to the few IQ test contrived by humans that I’ve taken in my 83 year lifetime, I usually score somewhat above average intelligence, whatever that’s worth? I have to say that If I understood 25% of it, that might be an overreach?

I read the Old Testament and ended up with more questions than answers. Most of the New Testament leaves me confused. I think I understand most of what Jesus taught. Having noticed the teachings of the several organized Christian denominations, I find often conflicted belief from one to the other. I’ve even seen animosity among them directed from one to the other. I see the “For Profit” TV Evangelicals, their lavish TV settings and churches and the life styles that have been revealed concerning their some of leadership. Often disheartening, to say the least!

So, I’ve determined that if I want to be a child of God and be saved to the “everlasting life,” my choices are to study hard and seek the teachings of the Bible from the more studied folk, or I can take the teachings of the Bible and Jesus in particular as I can determine the meanings, I can pray hard and often, confess my sins and hope I’ve found favor enough with the Lord to believe I’m saved to that everlasting life.” My only other choice is to live the sinful life without confession to God as I have the majority of my life, while feeling the calling of the Lord often also.

If “who so ever believeth in him shall have everlasting life” is all it really takes, why do I need the teachings of today’s humans who can’t even get agreement therewith among themselves? My only question at this point in my own church between my ears, is what are the “conditions” that determine “true” belief acceptable to my Lord? I’d love opinions about that from this forum.

Ask for the Holy Spirit to reveal the word to you. Ask for wisdom,
without His wisdom the bible seems foolish. Wisdom is another word for the Holy Spirit.


1 Corinthians 1:26-31 NLT
[26] Remember, dear brothers and sisters, that few of you were wise in the world's
eyes or powerful or wealthy when God called you.

[27] Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful. [28] God chose things despised by the world, things counted as nothing at all, and used them to bring to nothing what the world considers important.

[29] As a result, no one can ever boast in the presence of God. [30] God has united you with Christ Jesus. For our benefit God made him to be wisdom itself. Christ made us right with God; he made us pure and holy, and he freed us from sin. [31] Therefore, as the Scriptures say, "If you want to boast, boast only about the LORD."

 

[Miri]

Sorry ran out of edit time.

Lord I pray for your wisdom for Rob, your wisdom which superceeds the wisdom of men.
Open his heart and mind to the truth of your word, show him the sweetness of your word and
give him a hunger for everything you have in store for him.

 

[Adstar]

Why I disregard “organized” religions.

I’ve attempted to read the Bible from cover to cover. I don’t believe I’m a stupid person. According to the few IQ test contrived by humans that I’ve taken in my 83 year lifetime, I usually score somewhat above average intelligence, whatever that’s worth? I have to say that If I understood 25% of it, that might be an overreach?

First Point:: A humans intellectual ability is NOT i repeat NOT the Key to understanding scripture.. The Moving / inspiration / guidance of the Holy Spirit is..

Second Point:: No Human being understands ALL scriptures.. But if God is willing we are caused to understand the scriptures we need to understand..

I read the Old Testament and ended up with more questions than answers. Most of the New Testament leaves me confused. I think I understand most of what Jesus taught. Having noticed the teachings of the several organized Christian denominations, I find often conflicted belief from one to the other. I’ve even seen animosity among them directed from one to the other. I see the “For Profit” TV Evangelicals, their lavish TV settings and churches and the life styles that have been revealed concerning their some of leadership. Often disheartening, to say the least!

Christianity is the message of God revealed through the Holy Bible.. It is NOT the religons made up by the thoughts of men who distort the message of God with their traditons.. Nor is it made up of the scamming teachniques of money loving prosperity doctrine preachers.. Never put your trust in people.. Focus on the LORD and what He reveals in His Word.. My Faith in God has never been undermined by the corruption i have seen in my fellow man.. Why? Because i do not make my fellow men my Gods..

You can and should ask Christians questions on anything in regards to the Bible.. But always use the Bible to make sure that what ever answers you recieve lign up with scriptures..

So, I’ve determined that if I want to be a child of God and be saved to the “everlasting life,” my choices are to study hard and seek the teachings of the Bible from the more studied folk, or I can take the teachings of the Bible and Jesus in particular as I can determine the meanings, I can pray hard and often, confess my sins and hope I’ve found favor enough with the Lord to believe I’m saved to that everlasting life.”

So many danger signs in the above parragraph..

We can never be good enough or work hard enough to Justify our Place with God..

A persons Salvation status is based on their Believing Jesus and Trusting in what Jesus did to Save us when He died on the cross.. People should be confident in their salvation when they are trusting that Jesus was Good Enough and Jesus did what was Hard enough on that cross..

If “who so ever believeth in him shall have everlasting life” is all it really takes, why do I need the teachings of today’s humans who can’t even get agreement therewith among themselves?

Disagreement is not proof that everyone is wrong.. Generally someone will be the one lead by the Holy Spirit and will be speaking Gods will.. You should not be amazed that there is a lot of disagreements.. And again take what ever teachings you recieve from other human beings and test them against the Bible... Become a Bible believing Christian and stand on Gods Message.. Not on this denomination or that denomination.. Not on preacher so and so or pastor so and so.. Yes note what pastor or preacher or fellow Christian so and so says.. But never make another person your Messiah..

My only question at this point in my own church between my ears, is what are the “conditions” that determine “true” belief acceptable to my Lord? I’d love opinions about that from this forum.

Trust God.
Believe God.
Ask God for the understanding you need to be Redeemed..
There is no point in seeking God and not trusting God..
There is no point in seeking God and disbleiving God..
No point in being in a false religion, that cannot save you..
Desire the truth above all things..

 

[Adstar]

But I have confessed all of my sins, all 83 years of them in prayer. I beg Christ's forgiveness. I praise him every day for the millions of blessings he's granted to me. His love in particular, his saving grace, his magnificent and heroic gift for me and all humanity on the cross and his blessing of giving me 60 years with my loving wife who I lost just a few weeks ago. I pray for my reunion with her, I question what more I need to do.

If you're begging for Christs forgivness then you do not have confidence that simply believing Jesus and trusting in the Atonement He secured on the cross attains for you forgivness.. If you had supreme confidence in what Jesus did to save you then there would be emotional compulsion within you to beg for something you where confident that a perfect LORD Jesus had already secured for you..

Having Faith in God is Trusting God..

""what more I need to do"" Sorry to labor the point.. But man this activates all the alarm bells in my head, I'm like that robot in the old Lost in space TV show.. Danger Danger Danger will robinson.. lol Flee from that mindset Robo36...

 

[Adstar]

This statement is simply pathetic. Obviously you have no clue about the excellencies of the King James Bible, nor the errors and omissions of the NIV. So you have given some very poor advice, and I trust it will be ignored

I totally agree with this Nehemiah.

 

[Adstar]

If you're begging for Christs forgivness then you do not have confidence that simply believing Jesus and trusting in the Atonement He secured on the cross attains for you forgivness.. If you had supreme confidence in what Jesus did to save you then there would be emotional compulsion within you to beg for something you where confident that a perfect LORD Jesus had already secured for you..

Having Faith in God is Trusting God..

""what more I need to do"" Sorry to labor the point.. But man this activates all the alarm bells in my head, I'm like that robot in the old Lost in space TV show.. Danger Danger Danger will Robinson.. lol Flee from that mindset Robo36...

Sorry i should have proof read before posting that paragraph should have said::

If you're begging for Christs forgiveness then you do not have confidence that simply believing Jesus and trusting in the Atonement He secured on the cross attains for you forgiveness.. If you had supreme confidence in what Jesus did to save you then there would be NO emotional compulsion within you to beg for something you where confident that a perfect LORD Jesus had already secured for you..

 

[ForestGreenCook]

First Point:: A humans intellectual ability is NOT i repeat NOT the Key to understanding scripture.. The Moving / inspiration / guidance of the Holy Spirit is..

Second Point:: No Human being understands ALL scriptures.. But if God is willing we are caused to understand the scriptures we need to understand..





Christianity is the message of God revealed through the Holy Bible.. It is NOT the religons made up by the thoughts of men who distort the message of God with their traditons.. Nor is it made up of the scamming teachniques of money loving prosperity doctrine preachers.. Never put your trust in people.. Focus on the LORD and what He reveals in His Word.. My Faith in God has never been undermined by the corruption i have seen in my fellow man.. Why? Because i do not make my fellow men my Gods..

You can and should ask Christians questions on anything in regards to the Bible.. But always use the Bible to make sure that what ever answers you recieve lign up with scriptures..



So many danger signs in the above parragraph..

We can never be good enough or work hard enough to Justify our Place with God..

A persons Salvation status is based on their Believing Jesus and Trusting in what Jesus did to Save us when He died on the cross.. People should be confident in their salvation when they are trusting that Jesus was Good Enough and Jesus did what was Hard enough on that cross..





Disagreement is not proof that everyone is wrong.. Generally someone will be the one lead by the Holy Spirit and will be speaking Gods will.. You should not be amazed that there is a lot of disagreements.. And again take what ever teachings you recieve from other human beings and test them against the Bible... Become a Bible believing Christian and stand on Gods Message.. Not on this denomination or that denomination.. Not on preacher so and so or pastor so and so.. Yes note what pastor or preacher or fellow Christian so and so says.. But never make another person your Messiah..



Trust God.
Believe God.
Ask God for the understanding you need to be Redeemed..
There is no point in seeking God and not trusting God..
There is no point in seeking God and disbleiving God..
No point in being in a false religion, that cannot save you..
Desire the truth above all things..

You make some good points, but I disagree with the implication that religion can save you eternally.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

I thank you for the post, but I haven't noticed your personal opinion therein, as to what ,if any are the Lord's requirements related to "true" belief," that he will accept? Surely all alleged believers have moments, periods of time when they doubt their own beliefs? How strong must a professed belief in Christ be to "make his cut?" Where's the "cut line?" I hope many here can make that determination and allow me their opinions.

Believe with your heart and confess with your mouth. That is the requirements.
I agree that reading the Bible alone can leave lots of questions and not a lot of understanding. I also agree that learning from teachers that all disagree on so many subjects is disheartening.
Diligent study and seeking God in his word, in prayer, and through teachers is how it's done. You will be able to filter through the teachers by studying the your Bible and comparing it to what they say. The Holy Spirit will guide you to all truth.
It is a work of diligence though.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Why I disregard “organized” religions.

Would you prefer DISORGANIZED religions? I have heard this lament since time immemorial, and as far as we can see it is merely an excuse to escape responsibility and accountability.

So before we go any further, when you study both the Old and the New Testaments, do you or do you not see that God is a God of order and organization? Within the Law of Moses, there were very specific commandments to be followed for proper and acceptable worship in Israel. In the New Testament also, we see that God commanded the appointment of elders and deacons, the care of widows and orphans, as well as order during worship services. The Lord's Supper was to be observed on a weekly basis, and Christian giving was expected from all. And every believer was accountable within the assembly to the rest of the assembly.

At the same time we know that False Christianity created all kinds of man-made traditions, and installed a clerical hierarchy which had no basis in Scripture. The principle of the priesthood of all believers was violated, and a man-made priesthood wad created. But the Reformers came out of that system, although they did not fully revert back to the New Testament pattern. However there are many churches out there today which are not a part of any *organized religion* but still adhere to the New Testament pattern. So Christians need to be very careful to go by New Testament principles and practices.

 

[Adstar]

You make some good points, but I disagree with the implication that religion can save you eternally.

Religion is to me just a set of beliefs in regard to God and his will... One set of beliefs in regard to God and His will are acceptable to the Actual God of all existence.. Therefore there exists a religion that is the truth and as such if believed saves us eternally.. Just because there are 10,000 wrong sets of beliefs that are unacceptable to God does not make all religions bad..

 

[Victor1999]

"The way" is not meant to be walked alone. We need each other's support to keep us on the right track. It is very saddening that organized religion isn't functioning properly. A proper church could strengthen our devotion and protect against mental corruption. This should be their highest priority, to preserve us as Christ followers in word and deed, to keep us from being ones who worship with words but with a heart far from God. From the bottom of my heart I am saddened that the churches went wrong.

 

[Robo36]

Would you prefer DISORGANIZED religions? I have heard this lament since time immemorial, and as far as we can see it is merely an excuse to escape responsibility and accountability.

I didn’t join this forum to argue religion, I joined to find Christian fellowship and encouragement in a very difficult time after losing my wife of 60 years.

What I find about Christian “organized” sects, is the fact that each has several particular differing beliefs one compared to the other, all based in my opinion, in their inability, like myself, to truly understand much of the Biblical scriptures. Therefor I’ve determined that listening to all and believing none to have the whole truth, and nothing but the truth is the best policy for me personally. I believe God gave me the ability to decide for myself what particular scriptures are revealing. I believe that prayer will reveal the correct path for me and listening to other Christians beliefs can help also.

Thank you for responding to my thread.