Not By Works

[Discern]

Then you do not hold to Calvin's concept of 'election'. Which is good.

He said God purposely creates believers, designed and pre-programmed ahead of time to be believers, and he purposely creates unbelievers, designed and pre-programmed ahead of time to be unbelievers. And each of us just lives out that preordained path of believing or unbelieving that he put us on and which we can not get off of.

It's good if you do not believe that meaningless nonsense.

Your post does not accurately represent Calvinism. I studied Calvinism in depth so I could interact with it fairly.

In Calvin, and in the Bible, People are not preprogrammed, they are fallen, and their sinful desires do not come from God. Their sinfulness is due to being spiritually dead.

Saved people are raised to spiritual life. Even when we were dead, He raised us to life, spiritual life

I part from Calvinism in that I believe life is held out to all, and some reject it

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus paid it all for those who believe in Him and accept Him as their saviour, providing they do not reject Him later.

In other words jesus did not pay it all, And he does not have the power to keep you in faith, he is a failure

sorry, your wrong, you are teaching a false gospel

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Can you give me the exact verse...thanks.

Galatians 5:4
You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

The greek word justified is present passive, they are being justified by law. It has nothing to do with sanctification. It is a gospel issue not a doctrine issue

 

[Judges1318]

I part from Calvinism in that I believe life is held out to all, and some reject it

The question is, "is the choice to accept or reject life predetermined for you by God's purposeful design?"

Calvin says, 'yes'.

And so it is in that way that he says God has purposely pre-programmed and created some to believe and be saved, and some he has purposely pre-programmed and created to not believe and be lost......and there's nothing you can do about it.

What a horrible, meaningless gospel.

 

[PS]

In other words jesus did not pay it all, And he does not have the power to keep you in faith, he is a failure

sorry, your wrong, you are teaching a false gospel

Jesus paid it all. All only has one meaning. This is how it is:

Joh 3:16-21 ASV
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.
(17) For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him.
(18) He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(19) And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil.
(20) For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, lest his works should be reproved.
(21) But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, that they have been wrought in God.

 

[dcontroversal]

I was thinking about this.... powerful truth it is... this was one of the first Psalms I read as a new believer

“Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight” (Psalm 51:4).

Amen....David speaks in the past tense about his bones roaring all the day long, no sleep at night, etc....well before Nathan approached him.....He had been convicted for quite some time as MANY ARE before they are finally confronted with the word, their sin and finally surrender and get right!

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes but the point I was

Nathan explained the sin and consequences, and at this point David said he had sinned against God.

The point is, the chastisement for David's sin came a long time after the sin was committed. God did not deal with him straight away, He allowed David to do what was in his heart. The point I was making is that God disciplined David but he did not lose his salvation despite his actions being so wicked. There were terrible consequences as discipline, which reinforces the understanding of not losing our salvation but nevertheless suffering loss as there are consequences to how we live before God on this earth.
1 Corinthians 3:15

I agree with everything you said except the conviction part.......I have felt the immediate CONVICTION from sin when committing the sin.....it was not Nathan that convicted David of his sin, it was God amd long before Nathan confronted him....this is proven by the verb tenses used in Psalms and the verbiage used by David......that is my point!

 

[dcontroversal]

Yet they can understand the gospel with the Hs help

if not no one could be saved

pauls letter was fighting a mix of grace and works, the message was to unbelievers (you who attempt to be justified by faith) who had yet made a decision to warn them to make the right one. Before they totally went back at which time they will never repent

Point being.....even the message of salvation is hidden unless revealed by God, and anything beyond salvation is impossible for a lost man to grasp on a spirotually discerned level unless saved first....Corinthians makes this crystal clear.

 

[dcontroversal]

Hasn't it dawned on you yet, that you are "not one of us."

@eternally-gratefull has acknowledge the biblical truth of salvation....you are correct in this essence...he is not one of the working for tares like yourself that peddles dime store religious ignorance that is a false gospel with no power to save, such as yourself! We all know that WE are not in the many GROUP that you ascribe to!

 

[VCO]

Your post does not accurately represent Calvinism. I studied Calvinism in depth so I could interact with it fairly.

In Calvin, and in the Bible, People are not preprogrammed, they are fallen, and their sinful desires do not come from God. Their sinfulness is due to being spiritually dead.

Saved people are raised to spiritual life. Even when we were dead, He raised us to life, spiritual life

I part from Calvinism in that I believe life is held out to all, and some reject it

I agree that he was taught lies about Calvinism, but he wants to repeat those lies, because they FEED HIS PREJUDICED ideas about Calvinism. How sick is that.

 

[dcontroversal]

I was thinking about this.... powerful truth it is... this was one of the first Psalms I read as a new believer

“Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight” (Psalm 51:4).

Amen....Jesus was clear....when you do it to one of these, the least of my brethern, you have done it unto me! AGAINST THEE AND THEE ONLY HAVE I SINNED....clear as....!

 

[VCO]

Per request of @Ruby123..

I absolutely love this picture and saying!

 

[dcontroversal]

The new heart is Jesus... His heart is as white as snow... we are partakers of Him.

Amen.....HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS IMPUTED BY FAITH.....the workers for and salvation losers cannot grasp that truth!

 

[dcontroversal]

David remained faithful to our loving, forgiving Father. Had David renounced God, there would be no coming back, but he did not.

I feel people either do not understand, or their beliefs do not allow them to admit apostasy is possible. Sad to say if it were impossible, believers would not be warned about the condition, neither would there be a word to describe it.

Ignorance <--look up this word, look in a mirror and recite the definition.......the above post fits the bill!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God who works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.

My willpower is not a firm foundation. So I do not put much stock in it.

Apart from God’s preserving grace, I would surely fall away.

We do not lose faith because god never fails us,

also, we realise when we work apart from god we fail

only those who never felt god work as a father could not understand this fact.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your post does not accurately represent Calvinism. I studied Calvinism in depth so I could interact with it fairly.

In Calvin, and in the Bible, People are not preprogrammed, they are fallen, and their sinful desires do not come from God. Their sinfulness is due to being spiritually dead.

Saved people are raised to spiritual life. Even when we were dead, He raised us to life, spiritual life

I part from Calvinism in that I believe life is held out to all, and some reject it

He does not understand grace believers and what they believe at all

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus paid it all. All only has one meaning. This is how it is:

Joh 3:16-21 ASV
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.
(17) For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him.
(18) He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(19) And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil.
(20) For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, lest his works should be reproved.
(21) But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, that they have been wrought in God.

Yep

that whoever believes HAS eternal life

not “may have eternal life or conditional life

thats your faulty interpretation.

 

[dcontroversal]

I think the point is this they were justified...did not fully grasp their justification and went back to trying to incorporate the law just to be safe and Paul is telling them no.... not necessary and actually you are mixing race with law and this cannot be done.

We cannot deny who the letter is written to and how this theme is directed at them over and over throughout the whole letter...He is addressing churches, they are identified as sons in the faith, saved and justified.....he is not addressing lost men......! The bible is repelete with this truth...NO ONE finishes being justified by the flesh....that is the point...their justification was complete in Christ....HE EVEN STATES they had BEGUN IN THE SPIRIT <--THIS IS NEVER SAID ABOUT OR TO a lost man!

 

[dcontroversal]

Well, I have noticed that most of the once saved always saved arguments make the warnings of the Bible hypothetical. But, there's so many of them, and they are quite pointed and serious, that I can not easily believe they are just hypothetical.


But Jesus himself said there is a sin for which there is no sacrifice sufficient to cover it, and that is the sin of rejecting the testimony of the Holy Spirit. This is to be distinguished from man's testimony, which is important too, but when the testimony of God himself, through the Holy Spirit is in your face and indisputable and you turn away from it then there is indeed no hope for that person. No sacrifice exists, not even Jesus', to cover that sin. He is indeed insufficient to cover that sin. So the question is not whether or not Jesus covers that sin for the person who once believed, but if they can really commit that sin. Because if they do, and they don't come back, they're done.


It's not a senseless conclusion. Putting Christ to open shame is not a senseless conclusion. And that is the very reason a person is NOT ALLOWED to put Christ to open shame. The being renewed to repentance is what is not allowed because that causes the public shame of Christ. The falling away part, that is allowd.


How does a righteous man fall and rise again without repenting?
And surely this is talking about the struggle of life in God, not falling away from God altogether in unbelief.

Ralph....no one here cares about your drivel.....what you peddle is as false as the first day you peddled it here!

 

[EleventhHour]

We cannot deny who the letter is written to and hiw this theme is directed at them over and over throughout the whole letter...He is addressing churches, they are identified as sons in the faith, saved and justified.....he is not addressing lost men......! The bible is repelete with this truth...NO ONE finishes being justified by the flesh....that is the point...their justification was complete in Christ....HE EVEN STATES they had BEGUN IN THE SPIRIT <--THIS IS NEVER SAID ABOUT OR TO a lost man!

Just like I stated........Okay, you stated it first on this thread a while back.

Absolutely agree!