John 3:16-18 is not about God's universal love (there is no such thing).

[7seasrekeyed]

and not to rub it in, but the op is banned now. maybe take a lesson from that. the abusive and nasty way of attacking other posters here is wrong wrong wrong

I actually have no problem with disagreements, but I do have major problems with those who are nasty to others

while this is cliche at this point, that is not Christlike behavior

Calvinism is another 'ism' . no one is going to hell because they refute those teachings and on the other hand, no one is going to be saved because they promote those teachings

 

[ForestGreenCook]

God’s elect nation in the OT to carry the seed line, Jesus Christ, God’s elect. Elect unto salvation? No such thing.

What do you think is the significance of God changing Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob, but to be called Israel? Gen 33:28.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

what a ridiculous and childish response

I disagree with your beliefs regarding scripture so I am therefore, in your economy, making false and blatantly false at that, accusations and my understanding is clouded

you simply sound angry...like a spoiled brat stamping it's feet when it does not get its way

not one single Calvinist can actually prove what they wish to shove down everyone's throats...much like their founder...and while you state you are not a Calvinist, you have sadly taken to using their bullying, mocking and false methods of trying to get those who disagree, to shut up

get over it

if you don't like it, my posts that is, move on. I will continue to post as I will regarding the false teachings in this and other threads...along with others I might add

this is not a teaching platform contrary to what the hardcore Calvinists here think

Just curious, What is your platform for being on the forum?

 

[posthuman]

I disagree with your beliefs regarding scripture

we've been posting and been talking about a lot of scripture in this thread. why don't you engage in the discussion & chime in on some of it, since you say you have an opinion, instead of just making personal-attack posts?

it's a Bible discussion site, not a 'prejudicially insult other members' site.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You should note that the word "ordain” never fixes anything absolutely. (Lk. 7:8; Rom. 13:1; Acts 28:23, Matt. 28:16; 1 Cor. 9:14; 7:17) Paul ordained some things and that no more meant they were absolutely fixed to come to pass than if he hadn't used the word. (Rom. 13:1) The meaning is obviously that as many as were disposed to believe the message, believed.

(Rom. 2:7) - God doesn't ordain any Gentile to eternal life until he has followed his conscience and is willing to hear the Word of God (vs. 42,48) "ordained" something God allows to come to pass.

The natural man is not willing to hear the word, and is not capable of hearing and understanding the spiritual word of God, 1 Cor 2:14. The only way that a person can hear and understand and believe the spiritual things of God is that he must first have been regenerated and given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, Eph 2.

 

[posthuman]

I don’t have a problem with this. But the gospel of the kingdom is not the same as the gospel of Christ. Gospel is a word that means glad tidings and does not always point to eternal salvation. That’s where people make a mistake. People think that every time they see that word gospel, it’s talking about Christ’s death, burial and resurrection. Nope.

but Peter is writing to Christians -- and even though he calls them 'a people who was once not a people' ((1 Peter 2:10)) which is a clear reference to OT prophecy of salvation to Gentiles ((Hosea 2:23, Romans 9:24-26, Zechariah 2:11, Isaiah 43:21, 65:1, Deuteronomy 32:21, etc)) you called it a 'Jewish epistle' ((post #348))--- as though there is a 'Jewish gospel of Christ' and a 'Gentile gospel of Christ' ??

kinda weird for a dispensationalist ((post #348)) to believe there are two different simultaneous dispensations, isn't it?

Peter doesn't think that's the case --

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven — things which angels desire to look into.
(1 Peter 1:10-12)
​

he says he's writing about the gospel of Christ and that it's the same thing the prophets prophesied of and inquired carefully about. so he's either speaking to both Jew and Gentile alike in Christ, in speaking of the gospel of Christ, or if he's speaking only to Jews, as you attest, then what you're calling the gospel of the kingdom, he's calling the gospel of Christ - saying it is the very same thing that God has been speaking of since Moses.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

you are very confused

in no place in scripture do we understand or read that everyone will be saved

Calvinism would like to make it sound as though non Calvinists are universalists

the wicked lie is what you are spouting and you would do yourself a real big favor if you quit using derogatory terms for people you disagree with

you are not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth

you are being ignorant and abusive, not to mention condescending and arrogant

I think that the administrators frown upon personal name calling.

 

[John146]

The natural man is not willing to hear the word, and is not capable of hearing and understanding the spiritual word of God, 1 Cor 2:14. The only way that a person can hear and understand and believe the spiritual things of God is that he must first have been regenerated and given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, Eph 2.

You doubt the power of the word of God and the working of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit can lead a man to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ without indwelling that man permanently.

 

[John146]

but Peter is writing to Christians -- and even though he calls them 'a people who was once not a people' ((1 Peter 2:10)) which is a clear reference to OT prophecy of salvation to Gentiles ((Hosea 2:23, Romans 9:24-26, Zechariah 2:11, Isaiah 43:21, 65:1, Deuteronomy 32:21, etc)) you called it a 'Jewish epistle' ((post #348))--- as though there is a 'Jewish gospel of Christ' and a 'Gentile gospel of Christ' ??

kinda weird for a dispensationalist ((post #348)) to believe there are two different simultaneous dispensations, isn't it?

Peter doesn't think that's the case --

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven — things which angels desire to look into. ​

(1 Peter 1:10-12) ​

​

he says he's writing about the gospel of Christ and that it's the same thing the prophets prophesied of and inquired carefully about. so he's either speaking to both Jew and Gentile alike in Christ, in speaking of the gospel of Christ, or if he's speaking only to Jews, as you attest, then what you're calling the gospel of the kingdom, he's calling the gospel of Christ - saying it is the very same thing that God has been speaking of since Moses.

No, I do believe Peter is speaking of the gospel of Christ and not the kingdom gospel. His audience is in question. I’ll certainly take into consideration your thoughts brother. I never claim to be a know it all.

 

[posthuman]

Peter bounded himself only to the circumcised in Galatians 2:9.

If he meant his letter to be directed to the heathen, it will be breaking that agreement.

if it were truly the case that there was to be such a mean distinction then Paul would be equally "at fault" for constantly evangelizing at synagogues.

 

[posthuman]

Peter bounded himself only to the circumcised in Galatians 2:9.

If he meant his letter to be directed to the heathen, it will be breaking that agreement.

here's Peter & Paul writing to the same people:

Dear friends, this is now my second letter to you. ​

I have written both of them as reminders to stimulate you to wholesome thinking.​

(2 Peter 3:1 niv)​

so 1 & 2 Peter are to the same people

Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, ​

just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. ​

(2 Peter 3:15 niv) ​

and Peter says Paul also wrote to the exact same people.

He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. ​

(2 Peter 3:16 niv) ​

​

in point of fact, Peter says Paul doesn't write any differently to any particular group.

seems to me that Galatians 2:9 does not mean what you think it means. ___________

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I think that the administrators frown upon personal name calling.

actually we all should 'frown' on it

but what does this post

you are very confused

in no place in scripture do we understand or read that everyone will be saved

Calvinism would like to make it sound as though non Calvinists are universalists

the wicked lie is what you are spouting and you would do yourself a real big favor if you quit using derogatory terms for people you disagree with

you are not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth

you are being ignorant and abusive, not to mention condescending and arrogant
have to do with that?

the op tried to get across the idea that John 3: 16-18, is not about 'Universal love' with regards to God. however, perhaps you do not know that Calvinist try to claim that if you are not of their persuasion, then you must be a universalist which is also unbiblcial

and then we have the proceeding argument that the world is not the world etc etc

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Just curious, What is your platform for being on the forum?

what are you asking here?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

we've been posting and been talking about a lot of scripture in this thread. why don't you engage in the discussion & chime in on some of it, since you say you have an opinion, instead of just making personal-attack posts?

it's a Bible discussion site, not a 'prejudicially insult other members' site.

where did I make personal attacks?

they were made against me

try again

I know it is a Christian and not just a Bible site which is why name calling is not to be tolerated

and please, don't try and say I did not write my opinion...that is exactly what brought on the personal attacks

 

[7seasrekeyed]

ORIGINAL OP


Hello, fellow brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ, saved objects of eternal just wrath to grace.

Here is what John 3:16-18 is really saying and implying, alot of people have it wrong and its important.

John 3:16-18 (the text itself)
16 “For God so loved the world,[a] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.


Here is a Paraphrase:

(Paraphrase: express the meaning of (something written or spoken) using different words, especially to achieve greater clarity)

Paraphrase:
GOD + LOVE + WORLD, World being: not just Israel, but also GENTILES.....indeed.... the Jews believed that the world was cursed by God and they were God's people, its quite to shock to Nicodemus the Pharisee........That God loves is to the world and not just Chosen Israel.

So WORLD doesn't mean universalism (false sinful doctrine), its talking about God's LOVE to the WORLD (not just Israel).

Okay, continuing on... God's LOVE is manifested in the cross THAT.. [THE ALL WHO BELIEVE] should not perish but have eternal life, that's correct! AKA the ALL who are believing, there is no WHOSOEVER in the greek...

Its the ONES that BELIEVE, which denotes a group... aka all the believing ones, like i said, there is NO WHOSOEVER in the text, its a bad word to use, so when you read that word you might think....... that MAN can believe and repent outside the elect grace of GOD, which is not true.

Anyway continuing: Verse 17: For God did not send his SON into the world to condemn the world, this is what they believed (the Jews), that God has come to bless them and curse the gentiles, BUT Jesus is saying NO....... I did not come to CONDEMN but to save the World (the world being not just Israel)... then to finish it up he says..... Verse 18: whosoever..... which is not implying that everyone can believe, but that THE EVERYONE WHO IS BELIEVING.... there is a difference.

Everyone who is believing shall be saved and SO this in no way contradicts or destroys election (we know only the elect do believe, believing is the result of the new birth and the new birth is the result of God's election).

So the point is that God doesn't Love the WHOOOOLEE WORLD........Its not implying that!.......WORLD does not mean every individual of the world that has every existed........ something that is a contradiction of much of the bible!....... aka Romans 9:13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

If God loves the whole world, then the whole world would be saved.... duuuuurrrrr....

Anyway enjoy. I hope its a help to you in Christ, i also hope this is an encouragement for Calvinistic-Brothers/Sisters an edification and also a help to Arminians-Brothers/Sisters to see their error in this area and repent.



My response. post 335

uh huh

because believing in Christ is not enough

apparently, and according to Calvinists, you must needs also believe in Calvin

Calvin has never saved anyone but he managed to have quite a few put to death for disagreeing with him

thanks but no thanks

I'll just stick with actual scripture and believe according the word of God

now that is a direct response to the op. he just didn't like it nor the posts that followed

please stop pretending you and I have never had discussions concerning what you believe and what I believe

that is very misleading on your part

you may not like my responses either but that does not mean I just did a walk through and insulted people

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Well i am sorry you feel that way 7seasrekeyed, but by the grace of God i follow the Lord and not Man, Calvinism is in the bible.

Romans 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

John 3:16 is just as truth as that verse, is it not?

All Scripture is breathed out from God.

this is an opinion and you are all free to cite my posts as opinions also

Calvinism is not at all in the Bible and thankfully, we are not under obligation to believe it and we are certainly NOT SAVED BY IT EITHER!

no one is free to become abusive and mock others and call names. THAT, is not in the Bible either, although it seems to be another of Calvin's opinions at times emulated by those who adhere to his interpretations

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You doubt the power of the word of God and the working of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit can lead a man to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ without indwelling that man permanently.

It would be helpful if you would supply a scripture that references your statement.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

what are you asking here?

You mentioned that the platform of this forum was not a teaching platform. I am wondering what kind of platform do you think it is? In other words, What do you think we should be doing on this forum?

 

[John146]

It would be helpful if you would supply a scripture that references your statement.

The Apostle Paul is a good example. The Holy Spirit was working in his life before he became a believer. Paul was kicking against the pricks of the Holy Spirit. Finally, the Lord revealed Himself to Paul and Paul became a believer. There’s no evidence that Paul had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and was regenerated before he believed,

 

[ForestGreenCook]

actually we all should 'frown' on it

but what does this post

you are very confused

in no place in scripture do we understand or read that everyone will be saved

Calvinism would like to make it sound as though non Calvinists are universalists

the wicked lie is what you are spouting and you would do yourself a real big favor if you quit using derogatory terms for people you disagree with

you are not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth

you are being ignorant and abusive, not to mention condescending and arrogant
have to do with that?

the op tried to get across the idea that John 3: 16-18, is not about 'Universal love' with regards to God. however, perhaps you do not know that Calvinist try to claim that if you are not of their persuasion, then you must be a universalist which is also unbiblcial

and then we have the proceeding argument that the world is not the world etc etc

I am trying to understand your logic. Who do you think that Christ died for? What was his purpose in dying? Was he successful? I would like to hear your answers with scripture back up. It would give me a better understanding of what you are telling me that you believe.