"All Have sinned," really?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#41
As far as this subject goes, judging anyone worthy of death who isn't.
Judging worthy of death who would? not sure I’m understanding your point of view on the topic of all have sinned and the connection with worthy of death judging others been chosen not too these things.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
#42
It’s written in the Bible that “all have sinned,” then we watch the St. Jude adds on TV and wonder what sins these unfortunate handicapped and cancer patient children have committed. Do you wonder as I do about that? Some are but babes yet. Can someone explain please?
we just went through an annual holiday celebrating covetousness, and you are unsure if everyone sins?

________________________________:unsure:
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
2,107
763
113
#43
Judging worthy of death who would? not sure I’m understanding your point of view on the topic of all have sinned and the connection with worthy of death judging others been chosen not too these things.
There are many within christiandom who believe everyone on earth is worthy of death because they misunderstand what the Bible means by "all have sinned".
 

Robo36

Active member
Nov 27, 2019
186
58
28
#44
Good day Robo36,

I believe that there is an age of accountability. God is not going to condemn a child who doesn't even know what sin is or is not even aware of the world around him/her. However, God is just and it is His Sovereign decision.

"So then, just as one trespass brought condemnation for all men, so also one act of righteousness brought justification and life for all men. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous."

All who have come to an age of accountability are guilty of sin.
I thank you for this reply. Others here should read it and be enlightened!
 

Robo36

Active member
Nov 27, 2019
186
58
28
#46
The Bible says that the angels always behold the face of the Father for the little ones which means we are born innocent with no sin on our record, and the angels protect us spiritually until the time of accountability.

Adam and Eve were created knowing God and had an innocent nature, and we are not blamed for their sin for that is their sin and everybody will be responsible for their own sins.

It would of never entered their mind to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil unless an outside source tempted them.

So God allowed Satan to tempt Eve and she said that they could not eat of the tree for that is all she could know and think.

Then Satan tempted her with an alternate reality that she will be greater and they would be like gods and she sinned, and then Eve was the outside source that tempted Adam by showing him she did not die and nothing bad happened to her and he sinned.

Then they had a choice between good and evil and would have to make a choice of what they would do.

So all their offspring were born with a choice and Eve is the mother of all living, so we are born not knowing God so we will do wrong before we do right and follow God, which all have sinned, done the act not born with it, and come short of the glory of God.

So we are born innocent with no sin on our record, and God knows the heart, and intelligence of people, and knows at what point they are accountable, and it could be some of the children at Saint Jude are not at the age of accountability, and some might have been and sinned but then went to the Hospital.

Just because they are handicapped or have cancer does not mean they did not sin but God knows when they are accountable.

If they understand right and wrong then they would be accountable and if they do not understand it they would not be accountable.

If they are mentally handicapped that is severe they might not ever be accountable if they do not understand but then how did they sin that they would be accountable for which they would not but would be like the babies, and young children that do not understand.

If a baby dies when it is two months old it would not be accountable for any sins then how can all people have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

But those children at Saint Jude are adorable and appear very mild mannered, but they could of stolen something small and knew it was wrong, or something minor.

We are only accountable if we know it is wrong and we do it and I am sure that we would have to understand it thoroughly and time given us to be accountable.

But it would seem like not all have sinned and come short of the glory of God when babies, and young children, are not accountable yet, and mentally handicapped might never be accountable, but that does not mean they might not have sinned but they are not accountable for it.

So it must mean only those accountable understanding it have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

Maybe it is the guilt factor involved for a child if that young would not really feel guilty for stealing something that is lying around the house or saying no to the parents unless it is pointed out to them but then they still do not understand it fully.
Thanks, very good post!
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,584
9,104
113
#48
I think the problem lies with OUR view of what sin is, vs. what God's view of what sin is.

I can remember my 1.5 yr old son waddling to wine glasses that dangled within his reach to rattle them together, looking over his shoulder at me because he had been told "No, don't touch them" before.

He KNEW he shouldn't go over there and touch them, but went anyway and a couple of times touched and rattled them. I'm betting that's sin. WE, think "Oh that's just natural" and ya know what ? We're right! Our sin nature comes very naturally to us.

But I also believe in an age of accountability. I won't hazard a guess as to what that age is though.
 
Dec 6, 2018
86
39
18
#49
I can remember my 1.5 yr old son waddling to wine glasses that dangled within his reach to rattle them together, looking over his shoulder at me because he had been told "No, don't touch them" before.

He KNEW he shouldn't go over there and touch them, but went anyway and a couple of times touched and rattled them. I'm betting that's sin. WE, think "Oh that's just natural" and ya know what ? We're right! Our sin nature comes very naturally to us.
An 18 month old has a simple vocabulary. He looked at you because he was afraid that if he touched them there would be consequence/a spanking? I dont understand. The fact that he went anyway was because he was CURIOUS ... which is a natural (not sinful thing) abou the interesting new object. If that is a sin, for an 18 month old, then we are alll doomed. Seriously, perhaps a course in child psychology is warranted here.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,584
9,104
113
#50
An 18 month old has a simple vocabulary. He looked at you because he was afraid that if he touched them there would be consequence/a spanking? I dont understand. The fact that he went anyway was because he was CURIOUS ... which is a natural (not sinful thing) abou the interesting new object. If that is a sin, for an 18 month old, then we are alll doomed. Seriously, perhaps a course in child psychology is warranted here.
We're not "doomed" because of Jesus Christ. Are you a Christian?
And I was there. He absolutely KNEW he shouldn't do it.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#51
I don't remember what it was like in my mothers womb, but I do remember believing in God because my parents told me he exists.
Great blessing parents that plant the seeds.. You never know God could as a work of His faith faithfully cause new life as growth..?

When did you begin believing God as a work of God who is not our fleshly parents? Christ is not divided?

David, like John the Baptist or like Jacob that were reckoned from the womb. . . acknowledging the work of the Spirit that worked in them .

The lamb of God was slain from the foundation of the world (the 6 days he did work).rested on the 7th, the rest we do have when we mix faith in what we see or hear.. That work was demonstrated much later. . . two thousand years ago. The names were written in two books that will be compared on the last day .

When he calls us or awakens us it depends on whether or not the "name" is written in the Lambs book of eternal life.

Jacob had his wake up call when he wrestled with God. God changed his name to Israel (a born again name )a word that denotes God with him, enabling him to prevail when wrestling against flesh and blood (the temporal things seen)

Not simply the book of life (temporal) One erasable the other eternal ink. (Indelible )

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the "foundation of the world".


Revelation 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
 
Dec 6, 2018
86
39
18
#52
We're not "doomed" because of Jesus Christ. Are you a Christian?
And I was there. He absolutely KNEW he shouldn't do it

Yes, I am a Christian but I was not taught that infants and toddlers are inherently evil. They are beautiful and innocent and do not know anything yet. When you strike a baby/toddler you are teaching them to fear you ... nothing else. You manage the very young child with distraction, putting things out of reach (modifiying the environment) ... then when he is older & better able to understand ... you explain why. Worked for me. Raised four and never once hit them. They are all married, have good jobs and are upstanding citizens. And, they are happy. And raising their beautiful, innocent lovely babies, the same way as I did.

I have a question: Did spanking him make him stop? That would mean that you only had to say NO once/then spank and he would have learned. In future all you needed to do was say NO and no need to spank. If you needed to keep spanking him over the years, (if that is what you did), then the spanking did not work.
 

Robo36

Active member
Nov 27, 2019
186
58
28
#53
Hi Robo36. If you read any passage where it says all people are sinners, you'll see it refers to all people who have knowledge of right and wrong. It doesn't mean young children.
Could you give me a passage there with?
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,584
9,104
113
#54
You're a Christian and you don't know that Jesus died to pay our sin debt? Why are we doomed?

Now tell me why you are lying about what I said. Show me where I mentioned spanking here.


And you must REALL
1 Samuel 15:3 New King James Version (NKJV)
3 Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But KILL both man and woman, INFANT and NURSING CHILD, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’ ”

You must be REALLY mad at God for telling His people to take their swords and thrust them through little children and nursing babies!
 
Dec 6, 2018
86
39
18
#55
We're not "doomed" because of Jesus Christ. Are you a Christian?
Pen Ed, why do you ask that? Is there anything I have said that would make you think I am not. Just telling you what my views are on child rearing. thats all.
 
Dec 6, 2018
86
39
18
#56
ou're a Christian and you don't know that Jesus died to pay our sin debt? Why are we doomed?

Now tell me why you are lying about what I said. Show me where I mentioned spanking here.
You are calling me a liar? why? Of course I know that jesus died for all of us. do you spank? I misunderstood. That does not make me a liar. I was comparing spanking to other methods.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,584
9,104
113
#57
If that is a sin, for an 18 month old, then we are alll doomed.
Only a non Christian that doesn't understand that Christ died for our sin debt would think we are doomed because we sin.

And yes. Disobeying parents is sin.

And Yes. Your whole post supposed that I spanked my 1.5 yr old. And yes. That would be a lie.

We need to stop redefining what sin is. God doesn't grade on a curve.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#58
It’s written in the Bible that “all have sinned,” then we watch the St. Jude adds on TV and wonder what sins these unfortunate handicapped and cancer patient children have committed. Do you wonder as I do about that? Some are but babes yet. Can someone explain please?
No. We must take it by faith that God knows what He is doing. He gave His only begotten upon the Cross for me. That is enough. He knows all about pain and suffering. I will trust Him.

Isaiah 55
55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
55:8 For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
55:9 For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

I will pray that you find peace with your maker and the lover of your soul.

Hebrews 12
12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#59
Carl Mahan was 6 years old when killed his friend, and one of the youngest was in Norway at age 5 killed another
Yes, Satan the father of lies was a murderer from day one. Murdering mankind. He hates all flesh. This is seeing angels, as spirit messengers are not subject to salvation. Not created in the image of God ...His image is represented by two.Two needed to recreate or add.. . 2 = 1 (mankind) The murderer shows his fury . . . he knows his end and offers the illusions as lying wonders ; "Living the Dream" in a false hope it will never die.

Genesis 3: 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Better things accompanying those who have been redeemed . A future hope towards living the dream knowing our father knows what we need before he asks he works in us with us both to will and do His good pleasure . He informs us to do it without murmurings .he will not forget the good works we do offer towards his name . Its us who need a reminder.

Thankfully as a miracle we can pray and know we are being heard. Especially for the little ones. Bless the hands that have a part with the young and the Elderly . it would seem to reflect the pure religion spoken of in James. Care for the widows who were married as two that representing the bride of Christ to the world in their suffering and loneliness. and orphan our selves once not having a heavenly father.

Its not the repetition or much speaking that is vain .In our anxieties our father would have us cry out over and over for comfort . He as our guide comforts us by brining to our mind the things he pervious has taught. . He is like the front guard as well as the rear a cleft in a Rock . e have no armor for the rear.


But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. Mathew 6: 7-12
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#60
There are many within christiandom who believe everyone on earth is worthy of death because they misunderstand what the Bible means by "all have sinned".
Ahh I think I’m understanding what you meant, it is true no one can escape death in the physical state,.

the Christians who believe that all are worthy of death not sure who is saying that do you got any examples of Christians saying exactly that everyone on earth is worthy of death?