Not By Works

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Dec 30, 2019
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wow. does pharmakois also mean you cant take prescription drugs?
I have thought about that for 40 years now. What are the good drugs and what are the bad drugs. My father served our community as a Pediatrician for over 50 years. His generation of doctors would never have prescribed opioids the way they are being prescribed now. In MOST cases what that amounts to is that the patient is going to be uncomfortable for a few days. The body produces the oxyticin hormone that helps to deal with pain. Man makes a synthetic called Oxycontin and this blocks the receptors and prevents the body from healing itself. So in effect people trade off a few days of discomfort for a life time of misery. There are rare cases where people have lot LONG TERM pain but that is rare. What we have have here are drugs that prevent the body from healing itself and keep the person addicted so that the drug company can continue to make money off of them. We are getting very close to a million people that have died in this epidemic. They want to settle all the law suits for 12 billion dollars. They are working on that settlement out right now. The attorneys will get half the money of course, then the other half will go toward drug treatment programs for addicts. This program does not get them off of the drugs so that they can get help. It keeps them sick and dependent on drugs. They had opioid drug problems back in the 1800. For most of the 1900's they had the problem under control and these drugs were tightly regulated. Now we are in the 2000's it all has started back up again and is worse then it ever was before.
 

iymus

Junior Member
Feb 15, 2016
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why arent you sure you are christian ? whats wrong? i think we need to be sure we are in Christ and not doubt always. according to your faith let it happen to you. as a man thinks in his heart so is he.
Wiseman Melach.

I am not your version of Christianity along with the vast majority. I could only select three options.

Christian
Non Christian
Unsure.

So to avoid being lumped all in one and causing confusion I picked unsure. I am simply myself and Son of adam like everyone else. I know myself far better than the thousands of various christian denominations

When it was published in 2001, the World Christian Encyclopedia counted 33,830 denominations worldwide; with the amount of debate and division over theology and orthodoxy since then, that number is undoubtedly higher.
 
Dec 6, 2019
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What you said is correct. Where the dis-connect comes with many who debate here is on the topic of ongoing faith. They have isolated faith and salvation at a SPECIFIC point in time. Therefore it becomes quite legalistic from that point onwards with claims of people not being required to (1) continue in the faith (2) not being able to shrink back from the faith (3) not being able to do ANYTHING that could cause a loss of salvation (4) no need for repentance (just a few posts ago you see this one). (5) No need to fight the good fight of faith.....and I could go on and on.

The legalistic part is that they will go to God and claim the promises of eternal salvation, but have overlooked so many things that are part and parcel of our walk with God (e.g. points 1 to 5 above). When challenged, many excuses are thrown up like (1) well this wasn't a REAL believer (2) you are now using works to earn your salvation etc etc.

Belief is a choice. When presented with information you have the choice to believe that information or disbelieve. When presented with the gospel, many choose to believe in the saving power of Christ. But we are on a PILGRIMS JOURNEY through this world. We will continue to be given new information. There are many false prophets and false teachers who will present other information to you. You are free to choose to believe that information (with the risk of your faith being shattered), or continuing to cling to Jesus, The Cross and Him Crucified. It is still a choice. We have filters (the Word of God / Bible / Holy Spirit) which/who who help keep us on the path (led by the Spirit). But we could also sow seeds which are destructive to our faith - listening to and heeding these false teachings. The bible is clear that the faith of some were overthrown.
I believe justification, new birth, adoption, and initial sanctification happen instantly in the point of time of faith, and do not needto be repeated.

I believe that there are types of spurious acts for salvation that are powerless to save, yet are trusted by many for salvation. These would include any intellectual, emotional, or religious experience that does not involve the Power of God’s Spirit of raising one from the dead. This could include saying a prayer thinking the words you say are a mantra that saves you, baptism without regeneration, nominal belief, etc.

I believe that books like 1 John were written so that we can know we have eternal life, that is, whether our claims and belief that we are of God are genuine or spurious.
 
Dec 30, 2019
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i cant understand it why is everything so complicated? is the devil just trying to make people look stupid.
Money is pretty much an invention of the devil. There is no money in Heaven, everything is freely given there. Even in the church people always seem to want you to donate money to them. In Revelation 13:17 we read about a time that people will not be able to buy, sell or trade without the mark of the beast. This is why we hear about people that want to get off the grid and become self sufficient to live off of the land.
 
Dec 30, 2019
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I know myself far better than the thousands of various christian denominations
But do you know yourself better then the merchants trying to sell you products and get your money?
 
Dec 6, 2019
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wow. does pharmakois also mean you cant take prescription drugs? i dont have any now praises to God

if i need i will take painkillers but i wont take any mental medication like depression pills or xanax those are toxic i believe mind altering. i think alcohol is better hahahaha my friend alcohol. no really guys im sober right now for a long time even spent new year sober, but atleast alcohol is biblical.

you believe pharmakois is those mental medication?
No. Pharmakia is the use of mind altering drugs for reasons other than medicinal use. Especially and contextually referring to drugs in pseudo religious experiences
 
Dec 30, 2019
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remember works that dont come from love dont even count
Everything has to be done in love. This is all about our love for God. Even we are to love God and return good when people are evil toward us. In the hope that they can be brought to repentance.
 

iymus

Junior Member
Feb 15, 2016
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But do you know yourself better then the merchants trying to sell you products and get your money?
Perhaps not but one can simply

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
 
Dec 30, 2019
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atleast alcohol is biblical.
"Give strong drink to one who is perishing, and wine to the bitter in soul. Let him drink and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more"( Proverbs 6:6,7)

As a Christian I consider myself to be redeemed. We have passed from poverty to prosperity. I do not consider myself to be someone that is perishing. We have the new wine to drink and there will be new wine in Heaven. This is how Jesus began His ministry at a wedding. We put the new wine in a new container. We are to be born again and a new Creation in Christ. Old things have gone away and everything is new. (2 Corinthians 5:17)
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
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"Give strong drink to one who is perishing, and wine to the bitter in soul. Let him drink and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more"( Proverbs 6:6,7)

As a Christian I consider myself to be redeemed. We have passed from poverty to prosperity. I do not consider myself to be someone that is perishing. We have the new wine to drink and there will be new wine in Heaven. This is how Jesus began His ministry at a wedding. We put the new wine in a new container. We are to be born again and a new Creation in Christ. Old things have gone away and everything is new. (2 Corinthians 5:17)
yes thats one verse but it also says wine makes glad hearts of men and Jesus drank wine and its taken in communion (until recently they switched to grape juice and came with many explanations for it). i dont drink wine currently but biblically there is no argument against it really.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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No. Pharmakia is the use of mind altering drugs for reasons other than medicinal use. Especially and contextually referring to drugs in pseudo religious experiences
I find it interesting that Revelation 9:21 mentions. "..they did not repent of their "sorceries.." Greek word "pharmakeia" from where we get the word "pharmacy." — DRUGS.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
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I find it interesting that Revelation 9:21 mentions. "..they did not repent of their "sorceries.." Greek word "pharmakeia" from where we get the word "pharmacy." — DRUGS.
but can you say to my question: are mental drugs only pharmakeia? or also painkillers

like if u get wisdom teeth removed you can still get painkillers for few days and its not pharmakeia in my opinion.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
I am SO glad you asked!!

Jesus preached the Good News of the Kingdom of God and also demonstrated it. He said if we had faith in Him, we would do the same. And He gave us, His disciples, the command to seek first His Kingdom and His righteousness. He not only gave us the command but lived the example for us. He did nothing on His own initiative. The initiative was the Father's. As His disciples, the initiative for us today is to be Jesus'. Upon Him do we wait all the day. Living in the Spirit like this, we will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. Right there with Him, so near His rod and His staff, the wolves are far from us. Being under His authority, we exhibit not only fruit of the Spirit but also gifts; love and also love in action. After all, the Kingdom of God does not exist in words but in power and neither Jesus nor the Scriptures left any program for change before the end of the age.

"To the one who pleases Him, God gives wisdom, knowledge and happiness. But to the sinner, He gives the task of gathering and storing up wealth only to hand it over to the one who pleases Him." Ecc.2:6 or so. And in Psalm 125 or so, "In vain you rise up early and stay up late toiling for food to eat, for while they sleep He provides for those He loves." And repeatedly in His Word, He has promised to love those who love Him, i.e., those who obey Him. This is no "sloppy Agape".

I used to sit under the ministry of a man who stated that "the only problem with a living sacrifice is that it is always crawling off the altar." We can chuckle at that because we know what that means but it really isn't valid for a disciple who has denied himself and must continue doing so daily. "I have set the Lord before me continually" the Psalmist said. Isaiah 64:4 has always meant a great deal to me in this context: "Since ancient times, no one has heard, no ear has perceived, no eye has seen any God besides You who acts on behalf of those who wait for Him."

In this connection, we are always telling our children to "live in the moment." They begin to ask all kinds of questions about what we're going to do in the future but "the wind blows wherever it pleases, you hear the sound of it but cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit." And this Gospel by which Jesus becomes Head over all things for the disciple is the one they have heard since they were in utero. But we simply tell them that sheep don't tug at the shepherd's clothes asking about where they're going next.

We had a beautiful example of this principle last night at Bible study. When Scripture states "When you come together everyone has a hymn or a word of instruction, a revelation a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church." The fact that that's so alien points to the problem. If Jesus isn't Lord of all, He's not Lord at all. "The preacher" isn't the one who should "give the message". The bulletin, or "how we always do it" isn't what is supposed to be followed. The Holy Spirit is.

So we come together and wait for what song we should sing. After that, I was led to ask each person what their one prayer request for 2020 would be. And you can feel God's presence when His will is being done. He was in what we were doing. We felt we should write them down. Then when we go to the Word, we listen for where we should go. Psalm 61 was where we were directed and it is a Psalm that begins, "Hear my cry, O God; listen to my prayer. From the ends of the earth I call to You, I call as my heart grows faint..." And they commented before I did that this was God. So I got to reiterate how we must live in the moment and that as we let Him lead that He is speaking to us, He is listening to us and His desire is to answer and we went again to Luke 18 and touched on the example of the widow and also of Elijah and what fervent prayer is like. And the requests weren't the kind asked with wrong motives so that they could spend what they get on their pleasures - no one was asking for a pony or stuff like that.

I believe in the Greek in the sermon on the mount, Jesus' statement that "You cannot serve both God and money" actually is "You cannot work for God and money". Like many of the Jews of Jesus' time, many Christians today are lovers of money, i.e. idolaters. I haven't had a "real job" since 1996 since the Lord began teaching me this. I haven't had a paycheck since that time. And yet we have abundance. Derek Prince stated, "Jesus didn't carry a lot of cash but He always had His Father's credit card and it was accepted everywhere He went." That's a good way of stating it. Obviously I work but the yoke I have on is not one put on for the purpose of getting money but for the purpose of doing His will.

What am I going to do today? I don't know. I'm going to listen to the Master. He is the good Shepherd. It's not a religion - it's a relationship.

Sounds like a lot of work to me, trying to make myself holy.... it does not work that way.

... I myself prefer to rest in the Lord who is Perfect. ... knowing His Perfection, living out His Perfection is my beginning and my end.

2 Corinthians 13:5, the apostle Paul asks the Corinthian believers a question: “Or do you not realize about yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you?”
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Those who have faith without works have no faith because it is dead therefore James goes hand in hand with Jude.

You have to use the volume of the book or look at everything on a macro level and not micro.

Abraham was not Justified by works but by his belief however it was his belief that stirred works and /or obedience which was added to his faith and completed it or made it whole.

Rom 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

We are to live by faith and works is what complete our faith. At a certain point or maturity nothing is obtained or maintained without works which is a fact of life or the sum of my life experiences and observations.

Seems like your using sins of the past as scapegoat to justify faithless works of the present and future.

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Ecc 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Works can be saving someone's life like Jesus did with the woman taken in adultery. On a side note, I do not believe the I AM would want us to kill anyone, He forbade it in the Ten Commandments, it was Abram's faith that was being tested.

To my mind the 'works' we do need to bring glory to God.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
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but can you say to my question: are mental drugs only pharmakeia? or also painkillers

like if u get wisdom teeth removed you can still get painkillers for few days and its not pharmakeia in my opinion.
You pray about it, God won't keep His will from you. You have the Holy spirit.


Have you heard of dimethyltryptamine or ayahuasca?


Some drugs will cause trips or visions and are commonly used by many false religions for "spiritual" purposes..... The intent of these is often something like "looking for deeper meaning" by completely flipping their sober mind on its head....

I think this counts as sorcery or pharmakeia......


If you are in pain and pray to your heavently Father and don't feel convicted of taking a very controlled amount of something that takes just enough of your sober mind away to get some rest...... this is an entirely separate situation.

Though letting go of your sober mind is never something to take lightly.... and I do think people with addictive personalities need to be extra careful not to play with fire...
 
Dec 6, 2019
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but can you say to my question: are mental drugs only pharmakeia? or also painkillers

like if u get wisdom teeth removed you can still get painkillers for few days and its not pharmakeia in my opinion.
Pharmakia is illegitimate use, ie abuse of drugs.
 
Dec 6, 2019
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I was referring to what was stated in 119,853. He and I are in agreement on that post. It is my hope that you are too
So Chris and I may not agree on everything, but we agree on post 119,853.

Anyways, there is no way works have anything to do with our salvation, because even if we lived the rest of our days sinlessly perfect ( which we can’t), we would not be earning anything. When we obey, we aren’t purchasing or adding anything. We are merely doing what is our basic duty