Can One’s Salvation Be Given Up?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#521
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#521
John146 said:
Almost all prophesies point to the physical restoration of Israel’s kingdom. The truth of the cross was a mystery.
Click to expand...
When will the restoration of the Kingdom be?
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#522
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#522
John146 said:
Even after resurrection, shortly before the Lord’s ascension, the disciples were still looking for the kingdom to be restored.

Acts 1
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Click to expand...
That’s not addressing the confusion aspect. In fact it’s give more confusion.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#523
Jan 13, 2016
17,131
3,689
113
#523
Aerials1978 said:
When will the restoration of the Kingdom be?
Click to expand...
At the second coming of Jesus as King of Kings. He will rule the earth with a rod of iron and Israel will be able to worship the Lord without fear of their enemies.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#524
Jan 13, 2016
17,131
3,689
113
#524
Aerials1978 said:
That’s not addressing the confusion aspect. In fact it’s give more confusion.
Click to expand...
What it proves is that disciples were looking for and preaching about this kingdom during the days of Jesus.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#525
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#525
John146 said:
At the second coming of Jesus as King of Kings. He will rule the earth with a rod of iron and Israel will be able to worship the Lord without fear of their enemies.
Click to expand...
So Jesus was speaking of a spiritual Kingdom. Of course we agree on that. Again I would like to ask that if a man is born a Jew, but becomes a believer, would he be with Christ? If not, how could he go to Sheol if there are no more Levitical sacrifices? How is atonement made?
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#527
Jan 13, 2016
17,131
3,689
113
#527
Aerials1978 said:
So Jesus was speaking of a spiritual Kingdom. Of course we agree on that. Again I would like to ask that if a man is born a Jew, but becomes a believer, would he be with Christ? If not, how could he go to Sheol if there are no more Levitical sacrifices? How is atonement made?
Click to expand...
Now? In the Church age? He would no longer be a Jew but part of the body of Christ. He would be with the Lord upon death or at the gathering.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#528
Jan 13, 2016
17,131
3,689
113
#528
Aerials1978 said:
That didn’t include grace?
Click to expand...
Grace for what? It was not concerning eternal salvation, but a physical deliverance from their enemies. I guess that could be considered grace.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#529
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#529
John146 said:
Now? In the Church age? He would no longer be a Jew but part of the body of Christ. He would be with the Lord upon death or at the gathering.
Click to expand...
Now what about if he wasn’t? Where is the atonement?
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#530
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#530
John146 said:
Grace for what? It was not concerning eternal salvation, but a physical deliverance from their enemies. I guess that could be considered grace.
Click to expand...
Would it be your contention that only after Jesus died and resurrected salvation was offered?
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#533
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#533
John146 said:
In the Church age? He would be condemned just like an unbelieving Gentile.
Click to expand...
So the Physical Kingdom will only be for Jewish
John146 said:
Eternal salvation given by grace, yes.
Click to expand...
How was the thief saved? When he asked Jesus to remember him when He entered Kingdom(Jesus hadn’t died yet) was that because of belief in the Kingdom or who he believed Jesus was?
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#535
Jan 13, 2016
17,131
3,689
113
#535
Aerials1978 said:
So the Physical Kingdom will only be for Jewish

How was the thief saved? When he asked Jesus to remember him when He entered Kingdom(Jesus hadn’t died yet) was that because of belief in the Kingdom or who he believed Jesus was?
Click to expand...
Simply by asking Jesus to remember him. The thief did not go to heaven when he died, but to paradise, Abraham’s bosom.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#536
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#536
John146 said:
Simply by asking Jesus to remember him. The thief did not go to heaven when he died, but to paradise, Abraham’s bosom.
Click to expand...
Right, but eventually he will be in Heaven. So would it be apperent that Jesus was offering grace prior to the His death and resurrection?
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#537
Jan 13, 2016
17,131
3,689
113
#537
Aerials1978 said:
Right, but eventually he will be in Heaven. So would it be apperent that Jesus was offering grace prior to the His death and resurrection?
Click to expand...
I guess, yes. But for the Jew, this grace required works of obedience. For us after the resurrection, grace is given simply by believing the gospel of Christ. The best the Jew could do is end up in Abraham’s bosom. We have something better than they.
 
J

Judges1318

Banned
#538
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
#538
John146 said:
Did you ever compare Matthew 24:14 with Colossians 1:5-6?
Click to expand...
14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. - Matthew 24:14

5the faith and love that spring from the hope stored up for you in heaven and about which you have already heard in the true message of the gospel 6that has come to you. In the same way, the gospel is bearing fruit and growing throughout the whole world—just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and truly understood God’s grace. - Colossians 1:5-6

I highlighted some key phrases. Take it from here.
 
J

Judges1318

Banned
#539
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
#539
Judges1318 said:
He is still faithful to us even if we are faithless to him.


12if we endure,
we will also reign with Him;
if we deny Him,
He will also deny us;
13if we are faithless,
He remains faithful,
for He cannot deny Himself.
2 Timothy 2:12-13

What you are ignoring is there has to be a difference between 'being faithless' and 'denying him'.
He will deny you if you deny him. But he will not deny you if you are faithless.
That tells you right there that denying him and being faithless aren't the same thing.

Follow this closely:
How can Paul say 'denying him' means not being able to reign with him, and then turn right around and say Christ can not deny us?
Click to expand...
John146 said:
If we endure what? This endurance of suffering earns the believer’s right to reign with Him. That’s the context of verse 12.

If we believe not, it doesn’t make us not in Christ. Christ cannot deny those who are in Him.
Click to expand...
The question you need to answer is, how can Paul say in vs. 12 that Christ will deny us, but then turn right around and say in vs. 13 that He cannot deny Himself (us, his body)? My interpretation of the passage easily explains that. I don't think you're does. But show me how your interpretation of the passage explains it. I say your doctrine puts vs. 12 and 13 in direct contradiction with each other. Mine doesn't.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#540
Jan 13, 2016
17,131
3,689
113
#540
Judges1318 said:
14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. - Matthew 24:14

5the faith and love that spring from the hope stored up for you in heaven and about which you have already heard in the true message of the gospel 6that has come to you. In the same way, the gospel is bearing fruit and growing throughout the whole world—just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and truly understood God’s grace. - Colossians 1:5-6

I highlighted some key phrases. Take it from here.
Click to expand...
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

Notice that the gospel Paul preached has already gone out into all the world. That’s the gospel of Jesus Christ. The end has not come. The gospel of the kingdom was only preached to the Jews through Jesus and His disciples.

If it were the same gospel, the end should have come.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.