The Times of the Gentiles

[Dave-L]

I believe the king of the north will

i can only guess who that is..

But we are not discussing g this

we are discussing why God said he would punish people when its not true.

So you fortune tell the future based on Ezekiel 38-39 which told of Gog and Magog stealing Israel's cattle using spears and horses?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

It still means nothing. The text has the same message.

My only point was that Paul does not use the definite article when speaking of US as "temple"

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Prophecy can only be understood after fulfillment. You cannot use it as a fortune teller to forecast the future.

I'm not sure what you mean by this ^ .

Because Daniel 9:25 is definitely a prophecy involving a "future" event, where it says,

"25 Know and understand this: From the issuance of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until the Messiah, the Prince, there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks. It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of distress."


[then note what Jesus SAID on the very day the "69 Weeks" total were concluded, in His words of Lk19:41-44 (when He "beheld the city, and wept over it), "but NOW they are hid from thine eyes... And they shall lay thee even with the ground... because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation"]


It almost seems like you are suggesting we are to basically "ignore" all prophecy till after they "come to pass" as though that is the only good purpose/use for it. (??)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Prophecy can only be understood after fulfillment. You cannot use it as a fortune teller to forecast the future.

Well guess what

this Fits my interpreation. And is what I have said all along.

i am not the one saying things have not happened yet have by spiritualizing them away as symbolic.

 

[Dave-L]

I'm not sure what you mean by this ^ .

Because Daniel 9:25 is definitely a prophecy involving a "future" event, where it says,

"25 Know and understand this: From the issuance of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until the Messiah, the Prince, there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks. It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of distress."


[then note what Jesus SAID on the very day the "69 Weeks" total were concluded, in His words of Lk19:41-44 "but NOW they are hid from thine eyes... And they shall lay thee even with the ground... because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation"]

But most still do not understand it. only few grasp it through Jesus' understanding of the kingdom. Only 12 out of 90+ prophecies from the OT came about as written.

 

[Dave-L]

Well guess what

this Fits my interpreation. And is what I have said all along.

i am not the one saying things have not happened yet have by spiritualizing them away as symbolic.

How do you get missiles and submarines as a "literalist" out of spears and horses? And unwalled villages out of the most sophisticated weapons ever?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Prophecy can only be understood after fulfillment. You cannot use it as a fortune teller to forecast the future.

but we can use it to say if God said it will happen it will, we may not know how when or exact details, but we can know God said it it will come,

whats funny is this is the root of calvinism. Yet calvinists are the most ardent anti millennial proponents.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So you fortune tell the future based on Ezekiel 38-39 which told of Gog and Magog stealing Israel's cattle using spears and horses?

Nope

I know God said it will happen, it will

i do not know how when or why, I just know it will happen

its no different than the people In the OT

they knew a suffering servant would come, they just did not know when how or why.

they Lso knew the messiah would come, they were even given the time, how he would come, and what he would do
Whe he got here,

the problem is he was not what they were expectinf and were not rally looking so he came and went and they did not even know.

I do not know about you, but I do not wish to make that mistake

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

It is also our responsibility to discern whether a passage is talking about earthly Jerusalem or heavenly Jerusalem, earthly rain or spiritual rain, earthly feasts or the real, fulfillment of what the shadow was pointing to.

We know that the feasts were a shadow of heavenly things, we know those shadows were fulfilled in Christ, this forces us to reject the literal earthly interpretation and go with spiritual.

It's talking about earthly Jerusalem. The chapter starts as a prophecy about Armageddon, The Day of The Lord. The physical return of Messiah as corroborated by the other prophets. They all tell the same story. There is no reason to dilute the potency of the prophecy.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How do you get missiles and submarines as a "literalist" out of spears and horses? And unwalled villages out of the most sophisticated weapons ever?

Who said I get missiles and spears

your doing exactly what I said you are doing,you are taught what I think, and think that is true no matter what.

your not debating, your pushing what you have been taught and trying to force it on people.

 

[iamsoandso]

The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to [d]perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and [e]yet is.

I see it differently,

The beast is the final world leader who is also called the son of perdition, not israel

this same beast goes after the woman (israel in chapter 13) and gd protects her, so the beast goes after her offspring, which is us.

Which I understand because I once saw the fourth beast as if it had received an wound prior to when Revelation 17:8 was written. In the matter of this in post #115 I gave the Scriptures in support of the forth beast still holding it's rule at that time and in post # 194 touched on it again so I would nullify the quotes from the Apostles concerning submission to Rome/4th beast(masters) and it not having fulfilled it's time if I now say it received an wound then.So then the fourth beast cannot be in the pit at the time Revelation 17:8 was written if it is the sixth(one is) that is if it existed then it would not make any difference if the Revelation was given in ad96 or earlier because Rome existed in both time frames.

The beast in Revelation 17:11 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+13&version=KJV even he is the eight and is of the seven so it was then numbered along with the seven heads which ruled/will rule over the earth. This though is after the seventh and the ten horns/kings come/came it is the eighth and of the seven. And I agree it will go after her offspring us.

 

[Kolistus]

How do you get missiles and submarines as a "literalist" out of spears and horses? And unwalled villages out of the most sophisticated weapons ever?

I would take the spears and horses as language for warfare. Just like in Revelation 19 where the second coming is.

Also who is to say we have all this technology in the future? EMP........ even secular scientists have talked about it, it could happen

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I would take the spears and horses as language for warfare. Just like in Revelation 19 where the second coming is.

Also who is to say we have all this technology in the future? EMP........ even secular scientists have talked about it, it could happen

Saying it could happen is different than saying it will

nothing wrong with trying to think how we might see it,

it’s when we say it definitely will happen this way when we get in trouble

i personally have never heard anyone say this,

 

[iamsoandso]

Which I understand because I once saw the fourth beast as if it had received an wound prior to when Revelation 17:8 was written. In the matter of this in post #115 I gave the Scriptures in support of the forth beast still holding it's rule at that time and in post # 194 touched on it again so I would nullify the quotes from the Apostles concerning submission to Rome/4th beast(masters) and it not having fulfilled it's time if I now say it received an wound then.So then the fourth beast cannot be in the pit at the time Revelation 17:8 was written if it is the sixth(one is) that is if it existed then it would not make any difference if the Revelation was given in ad96 or earlier because Rome existed in both time frames.

The beast in Revelation 17:11 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+13&version=KJV even he is the eight and is of the seven so it was then numbered along with the seven heads which ruled/will rule over the earth. This though is after the seventh and the ten horns/kings come/came it is the eighth and of the seven. And I agree it will go after her offspring us.

I gave the wrong link in this post it should be Revelation 17 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+17&version=KJV

 

[Dave-L]

I would take the spears and horses as language for warfare. Just like in Revelation 19 where the second coming is.

Also who is to say we have all this technology in the future? EMP........ even secular scientists have talked about it, it could happen

Have you considered this already happened?

 

[Dave-L]

Who said I get missiles and spears

your doing exactly what I said you are doing,you are taught what I think, and think that is true no matter what.

your not debating, your pushing what you have been taught and trying to force it on people.

You are prophesying the future from it when it has already been fulfilled.

 

[Kolistus]

Have you considered this already happened?

Second coming happened already? Definately not. Revelation 19 when Jesus returns with the saints, when did this happen?

We would be in a new earth and new heaven if that was the case

 

[Dave-L]

Nope

I know God said it will happen, it will

i do not know how when or why, I just know it will happen

its no different than the people In the OT

they knew a suffering servant would come, they just did not know when how or why.

they Lso knew the messiah would come, they were even given the time, how he would come, and what he would do
Whe he got here,

the problem is he was not what they were expectinf and were not rally looking so he came and went and they did not even know.

I do not know about you, but I do not wish to make that mistake

But it already happened.

 

[Dave-L]

but we can use it to say if God said it will happen it will, we may not know how when or exact details, but we can know God said it it will come,

whats funny is this is the root of calvinism. Yet calvinists are the most ardent anti millennial proponents.

It already happened. Just like the 70 weeks already happened.

 

[Dave-L]

Second coming happened already? Definately not. Revelation 19 when Jesus returns with the saints, when did this happen?

We would be in a new earth and new heaven if that was the case

Where's the second coming in Ezekiel 38-39?