Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

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Aerials1978

Aerials1978

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watcher2013 said:
that is good, the video it is just for further information and you can verify it with the scriptures.
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There is a lot of good videos to watch. Would you say the thief who went with Jesus to Paradise was baptized?
 
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watcher2013

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Aerials1978 said:
There is a lot of good videos to watch. Would you say the thief who went with Jesus to Paradise was baptized?
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No he was not..even if he was baptized that day...it does not matter..because Christ was not dead and rose from the dead yet.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

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watcher2013 said:
No he was not..even if he was baptized that day...it does not matter..because Christ was not dead and rose from the dead yet.
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So if Jesus hasn’t died and rose, how could the thief have been saved?
 
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watcher2013

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Aerials1978 said:
So if Jesus hasn’t died and rose, how could the thief have been saved?
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Moreover,
Luk 5:21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
Luk 5:22 But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answering said unto them, What reason ye in your hearts?
Luk 5:23 Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk?
Luk 5:24 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

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watcher2013 said:
Moreover,
Luk 5:21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
Luk 5:22 But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answering said unto them, What reason ye in your hearts?
Luk 5:23 Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk?
Luk 5:24 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.
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Yes, as Jesus was fully God, He could forgive sin.
 
Kolistus

Kolistus

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#589
"Why salvation is not for today" is how I read the thread's name, that is what it equates to.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

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watcher2013 said:
Yes..Jesus said you must be born of water and spirit...
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Wouldn’t baptism then be a “Act” for one to obtain salvation? Don’t get me wrong, there are different thoughts on the born of water aspect. I always viewed it as proclamation when one accepts Christ. Maybe Jesus put it that way as he was speaking to Nicodemus who was a Pharisee with regards to spiritual cleansing via water.
 
CS1

CS1

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Dave-L said:
This has generated lots of interest so I am posting my understanding of the issue. (I used to be Pentecostal).

Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

Understanding the Baptism with the Holy Spirit in Acts is difficult. But I found the keys are the Ethiopian Eunuch Acts 8:27 and the Samarians Acts 8:5. In essence, all had the Holy Spirit but only the Samarians had the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.

These received the gift of the Holy Spirit according to Peter in Acts 2:38 just as we do today. But the Samarians also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit through the apostle’s hands which the Eunuch did not.

On Pentecost God baptized the 12 Apostles with the Holy Spirit who also spoke in tongues. According to Acts 2:38 the eunuch and the Samarians had the gift of the Holy Spirit through Philip’s preaching. But Philip could not provide the baptism of the Holy Spirit for either. Acts reveals that beyond the two outpourings, only the Apostles through the laying on of their hands could baptize people in the Holy Spirit. It was the proof of apostleship Hebrews 2:4.

When the Apostles visited the Samarian converts, they laid their hands on them baptizing them in the Holy Spirit. But this was not the case with the Eunuch. It says he went on his way rejoicing after Philip baptized him in water.

So the Samarians and the Eunuch received the gift of the Holy Spirit through Philip’s preaching. But only the Samarians received the baptism with the Holy Spirit through the Apostles’ hands.

About 7 years later, God poured out the Holy Spirit on the gentiles at Cornelius’ house which resulted in their speaking in tongues just as the Apostles did at Pentecost.

Scripture doesn’t mention the 3000 converts on the day of Pentecost as baptized with the Holy Spirit. Nor the 5,000 converts days later. But we might assume those whom the Apostles baptized in water also received the baptism with the Holy Spirit through their hands. But anyone baptized by someone other than an apostle would have been like the Eunuch who received only the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Later, Paul preached to the disciples at Ephesus Acts 19:1. These like the Eunuch received the gift of the Holy Spirit. But they also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit through the apostle’s hands the same way the Samarians did.

The Baptism with the Holy Spirit provided God’s word through tongues and prophecy until the New Testament canon became complete. How do we know this? Paul says scripture thoroughly equips us 2 Timothy 3:17. Paul said tongues and prophecy provided only partial knowledge 1 Corinthians 13:9. So it makes sense scripture replaced them when completed.

Beyond Acts, the Corinthians no doubt received the Baptism with the Holy Spirit through Paul’s hands. And Paul mentioned he wanted to visit the Romans to give spiritual gifts to them too Romans 1:11. Paul mentions laying his hands on Timothy who also received a gift 2 Timothy 1:6.

So we can say scripture directly supports the Baptism of the Holy Spirit for those ministered to by an apostle. That it was not for all. The Baptism with the Holy Spirit passed into history with the rest of the apostles Hebrews 2:4 because only they provided it as a sign of their authority. And that scripture replaced the fragmentary gifts of tongues and prophecy with the completed revelation. And we can confidently say believers from Pentecost on have the gift of Holy Spirit according to Acts 2:38, but not the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. Just as the Eunuch and believers since then.
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You know you would be correct if you tear out John chapter 14 to 16. How can the Holy Spirit not be involved with the believer? When Jesus Said in Acts 1:8 we would have power to be a witnesses after the Holy Spirit has enclothed us with power?

Do you think your understand of the very word of God is achieved without the Holy Spirit today?
 
W

watcher2013

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Aerials1978 said:
Wouldn’t baptism then be a “Act” for one to obtain salvation? Don’t get me wrong, there are different thoughts on the born of water aspect. I always viewed it as proclamation when one accepts Christ. Maybe Jesus put it that way as he was speaking to Nicodemus who was a Pharisee with regards to spiritual cleansing via water.
Click to expand...
What is so important about baptism that Jesus tells the disciples to teach them and baptise them?
What is so important about baptism that the apostles are baptizing those who believed...
Because Jesus himself said it.
Except a man be born of water and spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God..its a MUST.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

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watcher2013 said:
What is so important about baptism that Jesus tells the disciples to teach them and baptise them?
What is so important about baptism that the apostles are baptizing those who believed...
Because Jesus himself said it.
Except a man be born of water and spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God..its a MUST.
Click to expand...
I don’t deny the importance of it, but I don’t adhere that it’s a must for salvation. Again I refer back to the thief.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

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watcher2013 said:
What is so important about baptism that Jesus tells the disciples to teach them and baptise them?
What is so important about baptism that the apostles are baptizing those who believed...
Because Jesus himself said it.
Except a man be born of water and spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God..its a MUST.
Click to expand...
This just happen to come up while I was sifting through YouTube videos. Take a look and tell me why you think.
 
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watcher2013

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Aerials1978 said:
This just happen to come up while I was sifting through YouTube videos. Take a look and tell me why you think.
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Cant hear where i am (too loud no earphone)..will be watching it later. And let you know
 
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watcher2013

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Aerials1978 said:
I don’t deny the importance of it, but I don’t adhere that it’s a must for salvation. Again I refer back to the thief.
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Will you
Aerials1978 said:
I don’t deny the importance of it, but I don’t adhere that it’s a must for salvation. Again I refer back to the thief.
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If born of water is baptism...
Then it is required to enter into the kingdom of God...
As i said...when Jesus was on earth..he personally did many miracles...healing..he also forgive sins... (probably including the thief)

When he said except a man be born of water and spirit...he was referring to future.
The thief even if baptized that day...it has no bearing...for Jesus need to die and rose from the dead....
Otherwise our faith is in vain
 
CS1

CS1

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Aerials1978 said:
This just happen to come up while I was sifting through YouTube videos. Take a look and tell me why you think.
Click to expand...
I find this argument unproductive. Those who say Believe and baptized everyone of you in the of the Lord Jesus who immediately in the same breath Baptism is not required, are not teaching the word of God. The hypothetical of " If i got saved " and did not get baptized before I died is a foolish argument. That person MUST be left unto the lord because NONE of US say say HE was saved or NOT!. Even if he was water baptized.

second: Jesus was baptized and we are told to Believe which is the action of faith then be baptized . The Lord Jesus was baptized the Disciples were baptized with water and The Holy Spirit John 1 and Acts 2
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

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CS1 said:
I find this argument unproductive. Those who say Believe and baptized everyone of you in the of the Lord Jesus who immediately in the same breath Baptism is not required, are not teaching the word of God. The hypothetical of " If i got saved " and did not get baptized before I died is a foolish argument. That person MUST be left unto the lord because NONE of US say say HE was saved or NOT!. Even if he was water baptized.

second: Jesus was baptized and we are told to Believe which is the action of faith then be baptized . The Lord Jesus was baptized the Disciples were baptized with water and The Holy Spirit John 1 and Acts 2
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Well the hypothetical “ If I die before” could come about for some people. Again I point to the thief that was saved while hanging on the cross who was not baptized. If we have the chance to do it, we should absolutely do so.
 
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