The Times of the Gentiles

iamsoandso · Feb 12, 2020

When they said to Jesus that he was doing his miracles by Beelzebub he told them that it would not be forgiven in this age(the one they were in) nor the age to come https://biblehub.com/matthew/12-31.htm so I think it wise to be very careful when it comes to attributing the works of God with the dragon and vise versa.

Dave-L · Feb 13, 2020

iamsoandso said:

Are you denying God created all and saying another god created the things you do not like? Isn't it safer to say I don't understand God's relationship to evil?

Dave-L · Feb 13, 2020

JohnR7 said:

Zechariah 13:9 tells us: "This third I will put into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name and I will answer them; I will say, 'They are my people,' and they will say, 'The LORD is our God.'" 2/3 will be cut off and 1/3 will be restored. I believe that it is possible that 1/3 of the gentiles will be redeemed. If they are not restored then they are destroyed. IF God was going to destroy them He would have already done that and if that were the case we would not even have our Bible. Because our Bible is a book of redemption and restoration. God wants to redeem and restore us all and there is an open invitation to who so ever is willing let them come. "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2Petr3:9)

I did restoration work. IF you do not restore something then the only option is to tear it down. That is getting to be more and more popular to tear it down and start all over again. Some people do not understand why God wants to redeem and restore us. Why He did not just start all over again from the beginning. The Bible tells us because of His love for us He wants to redeem and restore us.

The Pharisees took Zachariah literally, not understanding Jesus took him symbolically. Zech 14 has been happening since Christ came the first time.

Dave-L · Feb 13, 2020

JohnR7 said:

We are looking at Rev 7:3,4 “Do not harm the land or sea or trees until we have sealed the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel" They will be here during the Tribulation period to represent God here on the Earth. They are already writting their books and preparing their teaching. They are getting ready to serve God and do the Job He has for the to do after the Church is caught up to be with the Lord. Just like the priest are trained and they are ready to begin the animal sacrifices. The cornerstone has been cut and they are ready to being building the temple on the temple mount.

We are Israel. Not the broken off unbelievers.

Dave-L · Feb 13, 2020

wolfwint said:

We are Israel and with some exceptions, very peaceful.

eternally-gratefull · Feb 13, 2020

Dave-L said:

do you watch the news?

Look up in the OT what kind of peace God promises Israel

we do not have that peace today.

wolfwint · Feb 13, 2020

Dave-L said:

You living in your own world? I cant see a peaceful world. You just ignoring scripture. It is no base for further discussion.

Dave-L · Feb 13, 2020

wolfwint said:

The church believes in non violence. We have beat our swords into plowshares. Only the false church (not the true church) presers violence. We are among all nations.

wolfwint · Feb 13, 2020

Dave-L said:

As I said. You are living in your own world.

JohnR7 · Feb 13, 2020

Dave-L said:

Everything God did with Israel - He is now doing with the Gentiles. Only God is married to Israel and we are the Bride of Christ.

If you were to check my DNA I do not think that I am a descendant of Israel. Could be when God changed Jacobs name to Israel I was adopted into the family. But that will not show up on a DNA test. I believe I will have a place in the New Jerusalem. At least a condo or something.

Dave-L · Feb 13, 2020

wolfwint said:

You are not considering Jesus' teaching on the kingdom. You are in line with the Pharisees in this matter.

Dave-L · Feb 13, 2020

JohnR7 said:

Circumcision, not blood made one a physical member of Israel. Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross. Israel is believers only. Jew and gentile alike.

JohnR7 · Feb 13, 2020

Dave-L said:

The sword has been given to the government and being a christian does not prevent us from working a government job. I personally am not going to fight unless they can give me a reason because I do not want to do any harm to others.

Dave-L · Feb 13, 2020

JohnR7 said:

Matthew calls the Sermon on the Mount the doctrine of Christ. John says if any do not have the doctrine of Christ, they don't have God. So the question is, does the Sermon allow for violence for any reason?

iamsoandso · Feb 13, 2020

Elihoenai said:

No I am not. I consider my self Christian and that I am outside the camps. That is not that I am against any of the camps among Christianity but to settle into one or the other at times might cause me to not look at what is actually spoken in the Scriptures to defend an camp in eschatology. So if I am outside the camps I have the luxury of not being obligated to say the things they would to defend their camps of thought. In this I have the liberty to speak the things I believe is the truth without fear of the ridicule that would come if I spoke of something that the camps do not agree with me in.

I was not laughing out loud at such an important matter as the mark of the beast but instead because you quoted me from post that would have answered the very things you ask me in you post. I have to admit that mine own wife has pointed out to me that when she reads though my post in times past I do speak(type) in an blunt/rude manner,lol. I apologize if I do or did seem that way it was not my intention but it may be an flaw of mine I need improvement on.

In such I will then try to set forth answers to these questions you ask because I do agree with you that it is very important to determine if the mark of the beast was in the past or if it is in the future according to mine own studies of Scripture and or historical testimonies of the men of the first century.

There are three important things to consider I think in evaluating this that is Rome,Israel and Christianity. I say this because he Scriptures do give an detailed account of the things that would take place in the time frame we are speaking of. That is that someone would establish an image and others being deceived would worship it. In this also those who refuse/refused to worship this image ae killed.

Now in Josephus wars 2 http://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-2.html it can be established that the Jews did not show piety towards Rome. That is that they did not see Caesar as God nor did they worship him as God instead they refused even to make sacrifice for him in the temple. The fact that they(the Jews) revolted/rebelled against Rome/Caesar should establish the fact that the Jews did not worship Rome/Caesar or it's image as God in the fist century(ad66-70). In fact it shows proof of the opposite in that they refused to do so.

The importance in this is that someone according to Scripture is to fulfill this worshiping of the image but as history shows the Jews of ad66-70 did not. Another important part of this is in that an mark is given during the timing of the image being set up and that only those who received the mark of the beast would be able to buy and sell(Revelation 13) but at that same time when the Jews revolted from Rome they minted their own coins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish_Revolt_coinage , and so it can also be shown that they did not buy nor sell with the mark/money of Rome or worship it's image in the time frame of the first century ad. This should remove them from consideration of an first century fulfillment of the mark of the beast of Revelation 13.

Now if you consider the very post I gave that you quoted(#115) it gives the Scriptures that give the advice of the Apostles in the matter of the masters over them at that time(Rome) and if you consider if they stated that they should see the master over them(Rome) as ordained by God(Romans 13:1) then (if) Rome was the one who was giving the mark(at that time) then the Apostles would be saying it is fine to obey them and buy and sell with Romes mark(Romans 13:7)...

So it is not that the Apostles thought this was the beast in their times in the first century they were living in that would render the mark or image to worship but instead as Revelation 17:10 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+17&version=KJV states they were living in the time of the sixth head and that the 7th,the ten horns and the 8th were to come after that point in time(first century). So if the 7th,the ten horns,and the 8th were future tense to them in the first century then they were still under the authority of the rule of the fourth beast of Daniel and so they stated to honor it as if ordained by God at that time. (I will re-post post 115 for reference)...

iamsoandso · Feb 13, 2020

iamsoandso said:

Your thinking the times of the gentiles that Jesus spoke of i.e. the beast of Daniel and the length of weeks(time) and that they would be in captivity under them ended sometime in the past consider this...

If Rome was in it's final stages of the time it was to hold Judah/Israel in captivity then the Apostle Paul would not have said to them in Romans 13 to still see it/Rome as ordained by God https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+13&version=KJV

If the fourth beast was in it's final state of time of rule over Daniels people that it was stated to rule over them or exist in the world then Revelation 17 would not have said that five were,one is. and that the 7th was coming(future) or that the 10 kings have received no kingdom as yet nor would it have said that the 8th was going to ascend out of the pit(future) it would have stated that all those heads and kings were present and at their end. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+17&version=KJV

In Romans 13 the Apostle said to see them as ordained by God, in Ephesians 6:5 he said to obey your earthly masters. In Colossians 3:22 again he says to obey your earthly masters. In 1 Peter 2:18-20 Peter says to obey your earthly masters.

Now this if you consider can only mean that in ad66-70 the Apostles last written testimony in regards to the point in time was exactly where the angel said to John/us in Revelation 17. That is at that time of the rule of domination of the fourth beast of Daniel the 6th head was present and the rest was to unfold in the future.

Now the mistake then is that they did not believe Jesus nor did they pay attention to the Apostles in regards to this issue of whether or not the rule of the 4th beast had yet completely unfolded in it's fulfillment of time. Instead you see they revolted and did not obey God and obey their master(the 4th beast) that was spoken to them.

Now if the image or the mark was present tense in the day when the Apostles stated that the Christians were to obey the masters over them(Rome at that time) then they would then have been saying it is correct to pay dues https://biblehub.com/interlinear/romans/13-7.htm that is to use the beast mark to pay that with(see Rev. 13:17) https://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/13-17.htm

But then it is Scriptural'y clear to see that the Apostles were saying that the 6th head was present in their day and the 4th beast was to continue until the times of the gentile rule was complete.

Re-posted for your convenience.

iamsoandso · Feb 13, 2020

Dave-L said:

I gave you both Scriptures from Daniel and Revelation where the Bible states who gave who their dominion and glory.

Dave-L · Feb 13, 2020

iamsoandso said:

Jesus isn't talking about that. He's telling us to preach to the gentiles until the end of the world = the times of the gentiles end then, not before.

iamsoandso · Feb 13, 2020

Now the fourth beast of Daniel https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel+7&version=KJV in verse 10-11 his body is "slain,body destroyed and given to the burning flame" but at the end of the siege of Jerusalem in ad70 Rome is the "victor". that is they win the war which is opposite of what is in Daniel. This is the three groups that were involved in the events of that time line in the first century ad that you were ask me about. I will post posy 115 after this post for your convenience because it gives additional Scriptures about the Christian view of the masters(Rome) of that day.

iamsoandso · Feb 13, 2020

Dave-L said:

Jesus is saying they would fall by the sword,be led into captivity and Jerusalem would be trodden down until the time of the gentiles were fulfilled. https://biblehub.com/kjv/luke/21-24.htm

The Times of the Gentiles

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