Who is the ones that is taken ? And who is the ones that are left ?

[JamOn]

Yes. Rev.19:11-21 is a detailed account of the Lord's physical and visual return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom. Prior to that at the pouring out of the 6th bowl, those three demonic beings that come out of the mouth of the dragon, the beast and the false prophet, go throughout the earth and gather together the kings of the earth and their armies to Armageddon. It is at this time, that the angels will also be going throughout the entire earth gathering the "one taken" group to bring them back to where all of those kings, their generals and their armies will have been gathered. At that same time, the angel of Rev.19:17-18, will be calling all of the birds/vultures of the air to come and gather themselves to the great supper of God to eat their flesh of all of those gathered there.

If you look at the parable of when Jesus returns to the earth in Matt.13:24-29, the harvesters who are symbolic for the angels, will first collect the weeds (one taken) and they will be tied into bundles to be burned, which I believe is speaking about their spirits going down into Hades. Even though some of the wicked make it through the tribulation alive, they will be killed when the Lord returns, which is why the angels will be gathering them.

If we look at the context of the "one taken" scripture, they are being compared to those taken in the flood. Therefore, the comparison is wicked to wicked. It is definitely not referring to the gathering of the church, because "one taken and one left" would be inferring half of the earths population would be caught up, which would not match what Jesus said about the wide gate and many entering in vs. a few who enter in through the narrow gate.

Also, regarding the vultures, the word "aetos" means " an eagle, bird of prey" or more accurately, "thevultur percnopterus," which resembles an eagle.

This is why when Jesus responds to His disciples with "wherever the carcass (dead body) is there will the vultures gather," which I believe is referring to that event which takes place as the Lord is returning to the earth. It's at this same time that the beast and the false prophet are captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire. After that Satan is bound in the Abyss. There will be a lot going on as the Lord returns to the earth.

that seems plausible,

so does the tares and wheat parable mentioned is that as well something of revelation or of something else. in that parable the tares seems are left in the field to be burned and the wheat is placed taken to the barn it seems. Which is like farming taken the corn leaving the weeds.

 

[JamOn]

About the flood yes I’ve heard of taken in the flood, yet drowned where they stood and Noah and his family left on a boat seems taken away from the flooded earth or say above the flooded earth floating.

 

[garee]

Yes. Rev.19:11-21 is a detailed account of the Lord's physical and visual return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom. Prior to that at the pouring out of the 6th bowl, those three demonic beings that come out of the mouth of the dragon, the beast and the false prophet, go throughout the earth and gather together the kings of the earth and their armies to Armageddon. It is at this time, that the angels will also be going throughout the entire earth gathering the "one taken" group to bring them back to where all of those kings, their generals and their armies will have been gathered. At that same time, the angel of Rev.19:17-18, will be calling all of the birds/vultures of the air to come and gather themselves to the great supper of God to eat their flesh of all of those gathered there.

If you look at the parable of when Jesus returns to the earth in Matt.13:24-29, the harvesters who are symbolic for the angels, will first collect the weeds (one taken) and they will be tied into bundles to be burned, which I believe is speaking about their spirits going down into Hades. Even though some of the wicked make it through the tribulation alive, they will be killed when the Lord returns, which is why the angels will be gathering them.

If we look at the context of the "one taken" scripture, they are being compared to those taken in the flood. Therefore, the comparison is wicked to wicked. It is definitely not referring to the gathering of the church, because "one taken and one left" would be inferring half of the earths population would be caught up, which would not match what Jesus said about the wide gate and many entering in vs. a few who enter in through the narrow gate.

Also, regarding the vultures, the word "aetos" means " an eagle, bird of prey" or more accurately, "thevultur percnopterus," which resembles an eagle.

This is why when Jesus responds to His disciples with "wherever the carcass (dead body) is there will the vultures gather," which I believe is referring to that event which takes place as the Lord is returning to the earth. It's at this same time that the beast and the false prophet are captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire. After that Satan is bound in the Abyss. There will be a lot going on as the Lord returns to the earth.

The lord who is not a man as us. He will come in Spirit. on the last day. The same Spirit of Christ that indwell the believer that does reign with him . The one time demonstration of the flesh is all that was promised. God is not a man as us .We do not know him after what the eyes see. That 33 year window was closed when he disappeared out of sight There will be a flash of light from the east to the west as the glory new kingdom comes over the horizon .

God will not in a literal body on earth .When he was here for the demonstration he resisted all attempted of , men calling Him good Master. Rightfully he gave that authority to the father not seen . and said one is Good God not seen

2 Corinthians 5:16Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

The eagle is a unclean bird used to represent unbebelif in mankind in ceremonial laws . Where the carnal flesh eating birds are found there you find dead flesh and spiritless blood. Let the dead bury or consume the dead

The thousand years according to the signified tongue of God in that parable of Revelation 20 represents a unknown . Christian walk by faith not by what the eyes see the temporal. God does not number or count the things seen used in parables.

 

[Ahwatukee]

that seems plausible,

so does the tares and wheat parable mentioned is that as well something of revelation or of something else. in that parable the tares seems are left in the field to be burned and the wheat is placed taken to the barn it seems. Which is like farming taken the corn leaving the weeds.

Actually, the weeds/wicked are collected and taken first:

"So the servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

‘No,’ he said, ‘if you pull the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat into my barn.’”

The weeds are the "one taken" group where the angels will go throughout the earth to gather them and take them back to Armageddon to be killed by the Lord.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Yes. Rev.19:11-21 is a detailed account of the Lord's physical and visual return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom. Prior to that at the pouring out of the 6th bowl, those three demonic beings that come out of the mouth of the dragon, the beast and the false prophet, go throughout the earth and gather together the kings of the earth and their armies to Armageddon. It is at this time, that the angels will also be going throughout the entire earth gathering the "one taken" group to bring them back to where all of those kings, their generals and their armies will have been gathered. At that same time, the angel of Rev.19:17-18, will be calling all of the birds/vultures of the air to come and gather themselves to the great supper of God to eat their flesh of all of those gathered there.

If you look at the parable of when Jesus returns to the earth in Matt.13:24-29, the harvesterswho are symbolic for the angels, will first collect the weeds (one taken) and they will be tied into bundles to be burned, which I believe is speaking about their spirits going down into Hades. Even though some of the wicked make it through the tribulation alive, they will be killed when the Lord returns, which is why the angels will be gathering them.

If we look at the context of the "one taken" scripture, they are being compared to those taken in the flood. Therefore, the comparison is wicked to wicked. It is definitely not referring to the gathering of the church, because "one taken and one left" would be inferring half of the earths population would be caught up, which would not match what Jesus said about the wide gate and many entering in vs. a few who enter in through the narrow gate.

Also, regarding the vultures, the word "aetos" means " an eagle, bird of prey" or more accurately, "thevultur percnopterus," which resembles an eagle.

This is why when Jesus responds to His disciples with "wherever the carcass (dead body) is there will the vultures gather," which I believe is referring to that event which takes place as the Lord is returning to the earth. It's at this same time that the beast and the false prophet are captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire. After that Satan is bound in the Abyss. There will be a lot going on as the Lord returns to the earth.

Good Post. I would add that there is much detail filled in about these events in Ezekiel 38 & 39.
Ezekiel 39:17-20 describes the carrion birds.

 

[JamOn]

Actually, the weeds/wicked are collected and taken first:

"So the servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

‘No,’ he said, ‘if you pull the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat into my barn.’”

The weeds are the "one taken" group where the angels will go throughout the earth to gather them and take them back to Armageddon to be killed by the Lord.

the issue i see is adding taken to the weeds I know you think it says means the weeds are taken, but it doesn’t say that it says first gather into bundled to be burned now you say taken else where to be burned I say burned right in the field, the wheat is mentioned as taken from the field because it says placed in the barn.

you wanting to add taken to weeds to fit the idiom of the wicked are taken.

 

[JamOn]

Same with the flood the wicked where not taken they drowned where they stood, Noah and his family was taken in a boat and floated safely above the ground below that was flooded

 

[Absolutely]

Yes. Rev.19:11-21 is a detailed account of the Lord's physical and visual return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom. Prior to that at the pouring out of the 6th bowl, those three demonic beings that come out of the mouth of the dragon, the beast and the false prophet, go throughout the earth and gather together the kings of the earth and their armies to Armageddon. It is at this time, that the angels will also be going throughout the entire earth gathering the "one taken" group to bring them back to where all of those kings, their generals and their armies will have been gathered. At that same time, the angel of Rev.19:17-18, will be calling all of the birds/vultures of the air to come and gather themselves to the great supper of God to eat their flesh of all of those gathered there.

If you look at the parable of when Jesus returns to the earth in Matt.13:24-29, the harvesters who are symbolic for the angels, will first collect the weeds (one taken) and they will be tied into bundles to be burned, which I believe is speaking about their spirits going down into Hades. Even though some of the wicked make it through the tribulation alive, they will be killed when the Lord returns, which is why the angels will be gathering them.

If we look at the context of the "one taken" scripture, they are being compared to those taken in the flood. Therefore, the comparison is wicked to wicked. It is definitely not referring to the gathering of the church, because "one taken and one left" would be inferring half of the earths population would be caught up, which would not match what Jesus said about the wide gate and many entering in vs. a few who enter in through the narrow gate.

Also, regarding the vultures, the word "aetos" means " an eagle, bird of prey" or more accurately, "thevultur percnopterus," which resembles an eagle.

This is why when Jesus responds to His disciples with "wherever the carcass (dead body) is there will the vultures gather," which I believe is referring to that event which takes place as the Lord is returning to the earth. It's at this same time that the beast and the false prophet are captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire. After that Satan is bound in the Abyss. There will be a lot going on as the Lord returns to the earth.

Actually in the "one taken",if it is the rapture and half the church is left behind as Jesus depicted in the virgin parable, then half the earth's population in no way is being depicted,but only those believers taken/left.
IOW only a percentage of believers left as in the virgin parable.

But if we test fit wicked taken then we definitely hit that worldwide population dilemma you spoke of.

Btw there are other verses and scenarios where the righteouscare taken first.
Hence firstfruits.

But Jesus shifts in mat to a preflood dynamic,and places the one taken in that setting.
IOW, you would need a "after the flood 2 on a housetop,one taken/left" example.

I see your point and understand your position.
There is some merit there,but the problems I see are profound. It almost can not be.

 

[Absolutely]

the issue i see is adding taken to the weeds I know you think it says means the weeds are taken, but it doesn’t say that it says first gather into bundled to be burned now you say taken else where to be burned I say burned right in the field, the wheat is mentioned as taken from the field because it says placed in the barn.

you wanting to add taken to weeds to fit the idiom of the wicked are taken.

...also that "burned" ingredient is the gwtj AFTER the mil.
So too many problems in that scenario.

 

[JamOn]

...also that "burned" ingredient is the gwtj AFTER the mil.
So too many problems in that scenario.

For me it’s like saying I left and my car took me to work, no my car takes me to work, if my car is broken down at home I am left at home without a car.

the parable is talking about a farm, where wheat and tares grow together no body takes the weeds from the Field it’s left either to wither away or is piled up and burned right in the field, the wheat as always taken to the burn or placed in a silos

 

[Absolutely]

Yes. Rev.19:11-21 is a detailed account of the Lord's physical and visual return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom. Prior to that at the pouring out of the 6th bowl, those three demonic beings that come out of the mouth of the dragon, the beast and the false prophet, go throughout the earth and gather together the kings of the earth and their armies to Armageddon. It is at this time, that the angels will also be going throughout the entire earth gathering the "one taken" group to bring them back to where all of those kings, their generals and their armies will have been gathered. At that same time, the angel of Rev.19:17-18, will be calling all of the birds/vultures of the air to come and gather themselves to the great supper of God to eat their flesh of all of those gathered there.

If you look at the parable of when Jesus returns to the earth in Matt.13:24-29, the harvesters who are symbolic for the angels, will first collect the weeds (one taken) and they will be tied into bundles to be burned, which I believe is speaking about their spirits going down into Hades. Even though some of the wicked make it through the tribulation alive, they will be killed when the Lord returns, which is why the angels will be gathering them.

If we look at the context of the "one taken" scripture, they are being compared to those taken in the flood. Therefore, the comparison is wicked to wicked. It is definitely not referring to the gathering of the church, because "one taken and one left" would be inferring half of the earths population would be caught up, which would not match what Jesus said about the wide gate and many entering in vs. a few who enter in through the narrow gate.

Also, regarding the vultures, the word "aetos" means " an eagle, bird of prey" or more accurately, "thevultur percnopterus," which resembles an eagle.

This is why when Jesus responds to His disciples with "wherever the carcass (dead body) is there will the vultures gather," which I believe is referring to that event which takes place as the Lord is returning to the earth. It's at this same time that the beast and the false prophet are captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire. After that Satan is bound in the Abyss. There will be a lot going on as the Lord returns to the earth.

""If you look at the parable of when Jesus returns to the earth in Matt.13:24-29, the harvesters who are symbolic for the angels, will first collect the weeds (one taken) and they will be tied into bundles to be burned, which I believe is speaking about their spirits going down into Hades. Even though some of the wicked make it through the tribulation alive, they will be killed when the Lord returns, which is why the angels will be gathering them.""

I am a little unsettled thinking:
1) all wicked are destroyed
(I see it as the army is destroyed that follows the ac)
2)all the wicked on the planet are removed pre mil.
That would have the mil beginning with no heathens

 

[Absolutely]

For me it’s like saying I left and my car took me to work, no my car takes me to work, if my car is broken down at home I am left at home without a car.

the parable is talking about a farm, where wheat and tares grow together no body takes the weeds from the Field it’s left either to wither away or is piled up and burned right in the field, the wheat as always taken to the burn or placed in a silos

I think most always there are weeds cut right along with tares,then separated later after they are harvested together ....but the only burning I know of is at the gwtj in the lake of fire.

 

[Absolutely]

Actually, the weeds/wicked are collected and taken first:

"So the servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

‘No,’ he said, ‘if you pull the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat into my barn.’”

The weeds are the "one taken" group where the angels will go throughout the earth to gather them and take them back to Armageddon to be killed by the Lord.

Then that implies only the saved are on the planet entering the mil.

 

[JamOn]

[

I think most always there are weeds cut right along with tares,then separated later after they are harvested together ....but the only burning I know of is at the gwtj in the lake of fire.

No not really, farmers even the old ways take the wheat by hand, today the machines leave everything but the wheat

Have they gone anywhere when scripture says even the earth is cast away into the fire.

Some say the flood is a example, it doesn’t sound right to say taken in the flood and left in the boat

 

[Absolutely]

[


No not really, farmers even the old ways take the wheat by hand, today the machines leave everything but the wheat

Have they gone anywhere when scripture says even the earth is cast away into the fire.

Some say the flood is a example, it doesn’t sound right to say taken in the flood and left in the boat

I think a lot of the "thinking" comes after this in luke 17;
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

So they jump a pretrib scenario into a postrib dynamic.

We see Jesus reiterate the flood as pretrib/flood/judgement in the very next verses
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed

So Jesus made 2 references making the one taken as a pretrib dynamic.

 

[Absolutely]

Before sodom destroyed;

They planted.

Jesus is saying basically; "the two grinding at a mil is pre jdgement"

 

[JamOn]

I think a lot of the "thinking" comes after this in luke 17;
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

So they jump a pretrib scenario into a postrib dynamic.

We see Jesus reiterate the flood as pretrib/flood/judgement in the very next verses
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed

So Jesus made 2 references making the one taken as a pretrib dynamic.

In those I see lot taken from Sodom, Noah taken from the destruction

 

[cv5]

Well we know this, Jesus is not going to send His bride through His wrath first and then gather her afterwards to take her to the Father's house. If He did this, what difference would there be between the those in Christ and the wicked, if they both suffer the same thing?

Paul called the appearing of the Lord and our being gathered to Him the blessed hope. Likewise, after giving a detailed description of the living in Christ being changed immortal and glorified and caught up to meet the Lord in the air, he said, "therefore, comfort each other with these words. If the church had to first go through God's unprecedented wrath before being gathered, it would be no blessed hope. Neither would believers have anything to comfort each other about.

You and others need to understand that there is a difference between the common trials and tribulations that Jesus said we would experience vs. God's coming wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. It is the latter that believers are not appointed to suffer. That coming wrath will be poured out upon a Christ rejecting world, not those who have already believed in Christ.

For everyone who believes, Christ was held accountable for their sins. He took upon himself the wrath that every believer deserves, satisfying it completely. By believing and teaching that God is going to put His church through His wrath, you dishonor Jesus who already satisfied it.

One of the on-going errors for your belief, is not understanding that God does not punish the righteous with the wicked. Also, you do not understand the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath and the purpose of it. By the time Jesus returns to the earth, the majority of the earths population will have been decimated and all human government dismantled. And you people think that God is going to leave His church on the earth to experience His wrath right along with the wicked?

As I previously stated, the Lord made a promise to all believers that after He was going to the Father's house to prepare places for us and that He was coming back to get us so that we could be where He is, which is the Father's house (heaven). We have revelation showing us that the bride/church will be in heaven attending the wedding of the Lamb and receiving our fine linen. And then after that, we will be following the Lord out of heaven riding on white horses. Yet you still don't believe the scriptures!

I know that I am wasting my time, because once you have adopted these false teachings, you are unteachable and just continue to offer up apologetic after apologetic in support of that belief.

I thank God that my Lord has already suffered God's wrath on my and every believers behalf, so that God's wrath no longer rests upon us. You and others however are not having faith in His promise, but are instead looking to go through His wrath, as though it was an honorable thing to do. It's not! His wrath is for those who have rejected Him.

Indeed. The pattern of the Jewish wedding ceremony is unequivocally applicable to Christ's specific statements to His Church. No other view is valid, Paul concurs in perfect accord.

 

[cv5]

NOT so , BUT I have beenin a Big study about it ,And learnt that it is not true, And JUST like the rapture is a big lie. It makes GODs word a lie , That is the reason I started this tread ,I want people to see what the BIBLE really says about them, AND not what I say but what the BIBLE says, Thus says the WORD of GOD,

You will understand the Rapture in due time God willing. Paul was a pre-trib rapture teacher.

 

[Ahwatukee]

the issue i see is adding taken to the weeds I know you think it says means the weeds are taken, but it doesn’t say that it says first gather into bundled to be burned now you say taken else where to be burned I say burned right in the field, the wheat is mentioned as taken from the field because it says placed in the barn.

you wanting to add taken to weeds to fit the idiom of the wicked are taken.

Well, if the angels are being sent out to gather the weeds throughout the entire world, it is not a great leap to apply them to being taken, as they are not just going to sit there with them. The angels are being sent out to gather the weeds for a reason, which we can deduce from reading the rest of the scriptures regarding this event and which is why I have provided all of these different scriptures.


Matthew 24:36-41 - The one taken group being compared to the wicked who were taken away in the flood

Matthew 13:24-30 - When the Lord returns, the angels/harvesters are told to first gather the weeds and then gather the wheat (weeds taken, wheat left)

=====================================================
Luke 17:37-37 - Jesus: One will be taken and the other left.”

Disciples: “Where, Lord?” they asked. (Where are they going to be taken?).

Jesus: “Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.”

Revelation 19:17-18 - Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out in a loud voice to all the birds (vultures) flying overhead, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings and commanders and mighty men, of horses and riders, of all men slave and free, small and great.

The "one taken" group (the weeds), will be gathered by the angels and brought back to where Armageddon is taking place and they will be killed in the following manner:

"And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations"

"Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. And the rest (kings, generals, their armies and the one taken group) were killed with the sword that proceeded from the mouth of the One seated on the horse. And all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

In addition, the parable infers that of those who are still alive when the Lord returns, half are taken and the other is left. If that event was referring to the rapture, it would mean that half the worlds population would be caught up, which I seriously doubt.