Soul Sleeping? What does scripture say happens to us when we die.

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Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#21
I dont know for sure either way, but seems to me when believers sleep they dream, so their spirit may be with the Lord in their dream but their body would be sleeping. when they wake up, they will be bodily and spiritually in the new heaven and earth.


When unbelievers die they dont sleep at all. or dream.. Thats why there is no rest for the wicked. Maybe they turn into zombies.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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www.christiancourier.com
#22
I think for generations now people have arrived at the conclusion they can pretty much justify anything using the scriptures as support. But is what they justify actually honest and true to what God said?

This article first appeared in the Christian Research Journal, volume 36, number 4 (2013)
The full text of this article in PDF format can be obtained by clicking here

“Death is not complete annihilation; it is only a state of temporary unconsciousness while the person awaits the resurrection. The Bible repeatedly calls this intermediate state a sleep….The soul has no conscious existence apart from the body, and no Scripture indicates that at death the soul survives as a conscious entity.”
—Ministerial Association, General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists
Seventh-day Adventists are well known for promoting the idea of soul sleep. From their perspective, the soul of a man is indistinguishable from the whole of a man. Thus, the soul of man cannot continue to exist consciously apart from the body.2 In making their case they lean heavily upon the book of Ecclesiastes—especially the words, “The living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing” (9:53). Such passages, however, must be interpreted in light of the whole of Scripture, especially the New Testament. The magnifying glass through which we read the Law and the Prophets must ever remain in the hands of the New Testament writers.

First, as the Bible makes clear, the soul is not the whole of a human being. The New Testament unambiguously communicates that the soul continues to have awareness though the body has died. As previously noted, in Luke 16, Jesus tells the parable of a rich man and a beggar who die physically yet experience conscious awareness in the intermediate state—a fact difficult to deny in that the rich man’s brothers are living and final judgment has not yet occurred. Not only so, but the Bible’s use of the word hades, without exception, refers to the transitional rather than the eternal state. Likewise, while being stoned in Acts 7, “Stephen prayed, ‘Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.’ Then he fell on his knees and cried out, ‘Lord, do not hold this sin against them.’ When he had said this, he fell asleep. And Saul was there giving approval to his death” (Acts 7:59–8:1). It is clear that while the body of Stephen died, the nonphysical aspect of his humanity continued to exist.

Furthermore, as is obvious from the account of Stephen, sleep is a common biblical metaphor for death of the body—in distinction from the soul. John 11 provides the clearest of examples. Here Jesus tells his disciples, “‘Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep but I am going there to wake him up.’ His disciples replied, ‘Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better.’ Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep. So then he told them plainly, ‘Lazarus is dead’” (vv. 11–14). Similarly, in 1 Corinthians 15, the apostle Paul says, “Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: ‘Death has been swallowed up in victory’” (vv. 51–54). Here, as in myriad other examples,4 the Bible speaks of the body asleep in death. Conversely, the Bible never speaks of the soul asleep in death.

Finally, if the soul did not continue in conscious awareness after the death of the body, it would be incongruent for the apostle Paul to desire to be away from the body in order to be at home with the Lord. Says Paul, “For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body” (Phil. 1:21–24). How could death be “better by far” than further fruitful ministry if it entails soul sleep? Paul iterates the same sentiment in a clarion call to the Corinthians: “We are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. We live by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad” (2 Cor. 5:6–10).

The point here, as elsewhere in the biblical text,5 is that far from soul sleep, to be with Christ is soul satisfaction. While Ecclesiastes 9:5–6 is adduced to the contrary, Solomon does not conclude that “the dead know nothing” under the Son, but the dead know nothing “under the sun.” When we die, “the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it” (Eccl. 12:7).

In short, soul sleep has nothing to commend it biblically. As the Bible makes clear, the soul continues to have consciousness apart from the body; sleep is a biblical metaphor for physical death; and conscious existence in the presence of the Lord during the intermediate state is something we may look forward to with eager anticipation.6—Hank Hanegraaff

Hank Hanegraaff is president of the Christian Research Institute and host of the Bible Answer Man broadcast heard daily throughout the United States and Canada via radio, satellite radio Sirius–XM 131, and the Internet (www.equip.org). Hank is the author of many books including AfterLife: What You Need to Know about Heaven, the Hereafter, and Near Death Experiences (Worthy Publishing, 2013).

NOTES and source
 

massorite

Junior Member
Jan 3, 2015
544
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#24
I dont know for sure either way, but seems to me when believers sleep they dream, so their spirit may be with the Lord in their dream but their body would be sleeping. when they wake up, they will be bodily and spiritually in the new heaven and earth.


When unbelievers die they dont sleep at all. or dream.. Thats why there is no rest for the wicked. Maybe they turn into zombies.
So where in the Bible does it say that the dead who are sleeping in the dust of the earth are having dreams?? Ahh chucks your being sarcastic. LOL
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#25
The answer is that if when we die we are in Christ we do not go to heaven. We go to Pardise/The Bosom of Abraham just like Lazarus, the thief and Christ did before He was raised from the grave by God. And we sleep in Paradise until the Resurrection DAY. If we are unrepentant like the rich man was we go immediatly to Gehenna which was where the rich man was placed after his death. Our bodies die and rot but our souls live on to suffer pain and torments or we are comforted just as Lazrus was.


The parable in Luke does reflect the rich man died, and was buried; as in "dead no spirit life" Lazraus .

It was the picture in a ongoing series of parables .The portion in view is the warning of seeking after necromancy. Because God would refused to hear rich man like Saul in the old testament. A strong delusion was sent by God so he could keep believing the lie..

Lazarus in John is a different kind of teaching. He was not buried as in no oxygen .It was not focused on necromancy as the parable in Luke.

To establish the law of faith the law that reveals the unseen understanding. The Father poured out His Spirit life on the Son of man for three days a living work of suffering and crying out for strength as two doing the work of one.. Kept his body from reaching the end corruption death the rich man also died, and was buried; No spirit life.

Four days for Lazarus, a name to signify new creature as former lost beggar in John times most like to signify universal . They were to remove the grave clothes the building up and healing ministry . .

The parable in Luke and John would seem have different teaching goals .The Luke would seem to emphasize on the authority by which we can hear God alone as it is written. . . all things written in the law and prophets. It is also called the two witnesses .

The John demonstration demonstrated the power of that word to keep its promise building up the spiritual house of God the church.

The same power he will exercise of the last day. Rise Lazarus as the bride of Christ, be clothed with the righteousness of Christ. He will remove the vail . Again us remove the grave clothes.

John 11:44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#26
I dont know for sure either way, but seems to me when believers sleep they dream, so their spirit may be with the Lord in their dream but their body would be sleeping. when they wake up, they will be bodily and spiritually in the new heaven and earth.


When unbelievers die they dont sleep at all. or dream.. Thats why there is no rest for the wicked. Maybe they turn into zombies.
Maybe they die and their corrupted spirit that was under the letter of the law (death) returns to the Holy Father of spirits and the faithless spiritless clay returns to the field of clay . In that way God can be true and every man a liar.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
 
Feb 29, 2020
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#27
It is interesting to note that Paul did not mention the dead being with the Lord in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

And he said to comfort one another with those words.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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#28
Ok so I have a problem with the scripture you quoted. Here is what you quoted.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
Now here is what the KJV, the NKJV, the Geneva Bible and my JP Green Lnterlineal Bible says
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
So what happened to the words "Willing Rather"? By taking out the words "willing rather" the context and the massage God is trying to teach us is changed to the point that the verse you quoted is corrupted. Mr. Strong put the Strong's Exhuastive Concordance together over a period of 35 years during which time Mr. Strong did an extensive and exhaustive study of the original languages of the Hebrew, the Greek and the Chaldean in his efforts to produce an accurate Bible Dictionary with Lexicons and integrity. But you couldn't us the Strongs to research the verse you quoted in line 6 because the words "willing rather" have been removed from the verse.
So the verse you quoted in line 6 is a corrupted verse, which means the whole bible version you have quoted from is corrupted so that even if you wanted to you could look up the words "willing rather" in the Strong's.

The verse you quoted in line 8 is the non-corrupted version of 2Cor 5:8. However you are have misinterpreted or read something into the verse that simply isn't there.
The verse was meant for the living and speaks nothing at all about what happens to us the moment the breath of life goes out of us and goes back to God where it came from.
I am living and I would "willing rather" to be absent from my body and to be present with my Lord in heaven" But since I have not yet died and been raised from the grave. I am stuck here on earth in the flesh with the desire to be absent from my body and to my Lord in heaven. Now there come a day when we get raised from the grave and at that point we will become absent from our bodies and present with Christ.
Otherwise the words grave, die, dead, heaven, going to heaven are not mentioned in 2 Cor. 5:8 and the verse says not one word about what happens to us after we die. You have transformed the verse in your mind to say what you want it to say rather then face the truth of what the verse actually says. Because in 2 Cor. 5:8 the true context contradicts what you have been taught and have been believing for many years. Just like a lot of folks.

You stated "EVERY BELIEVER WILL BE IN HEAVEN UPON DEATH" But I don't see any of those words written in any of the verses you have quoted and I am confident that you will not ever find these words written just as you have written them anywhere in the Word Of God or even something similar. How do I know?? Because I relentlessly searched the Bible for what happens to us when we die and could not find any evidence or scripture that says that we go to heaven before we are resurrected by Christ.
Oh You DIDN'T! :ROFL:

Do you not realise that you've told off one of the most committed KJV adherents to frequent this forum for NOT using the KJV?

If you look at your post and his, he did quote the 'willing rather' verse in his post.
What you've done is mixed up verse 6 with verse 8.

Verse 8 has 'willing rather'
Verse 6 doesn't.

Nehemiah 6 posted all of it from the KJV. He only uses the KJV

2 Cor 5 KJV
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."



BTW other translations say the same in verse 8.

ESV uses "would rather"
NIV uses "would prefer"

No corruption
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
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#29
To start off with I want to say that "THERE IS NOT ONE SINGLE PLACE/SCRIPTURE IN THE WORD OF GOD THAT TELLS US OR GUARANTEES US THAT WE GO STRIEGHT TO HEAVEN AS SOON AS WE DIE.
The word sleep and rest are used many times in scripture and Christ used the word sleep to describe a dead persons state of being.
Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
At this point we know that Lazarus was already dead and in the grave.
Joh 11:39 Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.
Now we all know that Lazarus was in fact supposed to be dead. But Christ stated that Lazarus was sleeping. So the question is, Why would Jesus describe Lazarus as being in a state of sleep and not in a state of death?? The answer is that the body was in fact dead and beginning to rot but the soul of Lazarus was not dead. It was resting just as the Bible says Lazarus was doing after he died.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Notice how this verse says that Lazarus was "carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom" after he died. But the rich man was not carried by angels after he died. Luke 16:22 simply says that the rich man was buried. Lazarus was also buried but the difference is what happened to the soul after the body died. The soul of Lazarus who had embraced the Gospel and was saved, was carried away by angels to Abraham's bosom where scripture says he was "comforted". But the soul of the rich man didn't go to the Bosom of Abraham, he went to a place of torment which is called Gehenna.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Notice how Lazarus doesn't speak a single word throughout the conversation between the rich man and Abraham. That is because Lazarus was sleeping just as John 11:11 says he was. In fact Jesus stated that it was time for Him to awaken Lazarus out of sleep.
Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

Here is another time when Christ describes a person who had died as being in a state of sleep and Jesus actually declares that the Damsel is not dead but is actually asleep.
Mar 5:39 And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.
Act 13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

In the book of Daniel scripture state that those Who sleep in the dust shall awaken.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

In 1 Samuel King Saul new that the soul of Samuel was not dead but was only asleep when he asked the witch of Endor bring Samual UP.
1Sa 28:8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him UP, whom I shall name unto thee.
1Sa 28:11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
Even the witch knew that the soul of Samual could be BROUGHT UP from the dead.
And when Samuel was awakened and brought up he was upset because he had been disturbed.
1Sa 28:15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do. In this verse the word "disquieted" means "disturbed". Which tells us that the soul of Samual was in a place of great comfort but his body was in the grave rotting.
In the book of Daniel God tells Daniel to go his way and rest. God dosn't tell Daniel to go his way and die, God tells Daniel to go and rest.
Dan 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days. In this verse the word"rest" translated from the Hebrew means "sleep".
As we can see from this verse, Daniel is right know "resting" and is not dead though his body has rotted in the Grave. We can also see from what this verse says that Daniel will stand in his lot at the end of days. In other words Daniel will return and Prophecy once more during the end of days. I believe that Daniel is one of the two witnesses.
When Jesus was no the cross He told the thief that he would be with Jesus in Paradise.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
So the question is "Where is Paradise located?" According to Paul Christ first descended down into the lower parts of the earth.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
So this verse is telling us that the location of Paradise is in the lower parts of the earth.
We need to remember that when the NT was written it focused Jewish customs and beliefs. The Jewish belief was that Paradise was that part of Hades was the abode of the souls of the pious until Resurrection day. This means that the Jewish people believed that when we are saved and we die we do not go to heaven but actually stay in Paradise until Christ returns to raise us from the grave.
Hence the parable about the rich man and Lazarus. Lazarus who was saved and who embraced the Gospel died and was carried away by angels to the Bosom of Abraham which is also known as Paradise.
Here is a question I like to ask folks, If when we die our body goes back to the dust from which it came from.
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

What is the rich man doing roasting in hell with eyeballs and a tongue???
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
The body of the rich man stayed in the grave where it turned back into the dust from which it came, but the soul of the rich man could feel all of the pain and torments just as though he still had a body of flesh
If when we die our body turns back to the dust, how could the rich man have had eyeballs and a tongue and how could he feel heat and torments???
The answer is that if when we die we are in Christ we do not go to heaven. We go to Pardise/The Bosom of Abraham just like Lazarus, the thief and Christ did before He was raised from the grave by God. And we sleep in Paradise until the Resurrection DAY. If we are unrepentant like the rich man was we go immediatly to Gehenna which was where the rich man was placed after his death. Our bodies die and rot but our souls live on to suffer pain and torments or we are comforted just as Lazrus was.
Well, I only needed the first few lines to understood where you were going. You are correct, the DEAD IN CHRIST are raised up at the Rapture.....but its just before the 70th week.

That is how we are brought back with Jesus .

People do not go straight to Heaven.

People who dream about seeing loved ones in Heaven are seeing what John saw..........FURURE EVENTS !!
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#30
Scripture tells us exactly why and how the saints "slept" when they die, and why it was different from what happens to us, now. It is in Matthew 27, telling of what happened to the sleeping saints when Christ was crucified and He went to pay for our sins. They had been saved, but only kept safe in sleep. After Christ went to pay for our sins they became alive in the same way we are alive after salvation.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
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#31
Scripture tells us exactly why and how the saints "slept" when they die, and why it was different from what happens to us, now. It is in Matthew 27, telling of what happened to the sleeping saints when Christ was crucified and He went to pay for our sins. They had been saved, but only kept safe in sleep. After Christ went to pay for our sins they became alive in the same way we are alive after salvation.
Matthew 27: 50 And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit. 51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and[e] went into the holy city and appeared to many people.


.
 

massorite

Junior Member
Jan 3, 2015
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#32
Well, I only needed the first few lines to understood where you were going. You are correct, the DEAD IN CHRIST are raised up at the Rapture.....but its just before the 70th week.

That is how we are brought back with Jesus .

People do not go straight to Heaven.

People who dream about seeing loved ones in Heaven are seeing what John saw..........FURURE EVENTS !!
People who dream about seeing loved ones in Heaven are seeing what John saw.......... I have never found any scripture that re-enforces the idea that we will recognize our loved one in heaven and scripture says something different.
Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Personally I don't believe we will recognize anybody we knew in this life and our focus will have changed from the thing of this world to focusing on doing what the angels do. Their main purpose is to praise God 24/7's or whatever job God would have us to do.
 

massorite

Junior Member
Jan 3, 2015
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#33
So I re-read my post and no I didn't get line 6 mixed up with line 8. Please read what I posted again.
First I quoted the verse that he quoted in line 6.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
Next I informed him that I the KJV, NKJV, the Geneva bible and the JP Greens Interlinear Bible all said something different and then I quoted 2 Cor 5:8 with the words "Willing Rather" in it to show that all of the Bibles I mentioned did indeed have the words "willingly rather" included in the verse
Now here is what the KJV, the NKJV, the Geneva Bible and my JP Green Interlineal Bible says
Then I quoted the verse.
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Do you not realise that you've told off one of the most committed KJV adherents to frequent this forum for NOT using the KJV?
LOL in all honesty I don't know about telling that person off and it is a problem when we can't look into each others eyes when we are having a conversation. We can't see emotions so we don't really know if the person we are talking to is happy or angry. Only when the insults are flying do we know if a person is angry or not and sometimes a statement of fact can be taken as an insult.
I understood that he did in fact quote from the KJV but he was trying to argue a position that simply couldn't be proven from the actual context of the verse and in fact he interpreted the verse wrong according to my research.



And he said to comfort one another with those words.
[/QUOTE]
So I re-read my post and no I didn't get line 6 mixed up with line 8. Please read what I posted again.
First I quoted the verse that he quoted in line 6.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
Next I informed him that I the KJV, NKJV, the Geneva bible and the JP Greens Interlinear Bible all said something different and then I quoted 2 Cor 5:8 with the words "Willing Rather" in it to show that all of the Bibles I mentioned did indeed have the words "willingly rather" included in the verse
Now here is what the KJV, the NKJV, the Geneva Bible and my JP Green Interlineal Bible says
Then I quoted the verse.
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Do you not realise that you've told off one of the most committed KJV adherents to frequent this forum for NOT using the KJV?
LOL in all honesty I don't know about telling that person off and it is a problem when we can't look into each others eyes when we are having a conversation. We can't see emotions so we don't really know if the person we are talking to is happy or angry. Only when the insults are flying do we know if a person is angry or not and sometimes a statement of fact can be taken as an insult.
I understood that he did in fact quote from the KJV but he was trying to argue a position that simply couldn't be proven from the actual context of the verse and in fact he interpreted the verse wrong according to my research.



And he said to comfort one another with those words.
[/QUOTE]
 

massorite

Junior Member
Jan 3, 2015
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#34
It is interesting to note that Paul did not mention the dead being with the Lord in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

And he said to comfort one another with those words.
1 Thess 4:13-18 is even more proof that we do not go to heaven as soon as we die but in stead we go to sleep in the dust.
 
Jun 10, 2019
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#35
Job 3 does talk about either Or and the captives enjoy rest not memory laps. the stillborn unborn God knows

13For now I would be lying down in peace;
I would be asleep and at rest

14with kings and counselors of the earth,
who built for themselves cities now in ruins,

15or with princes who had gold,
who filled their houses with silver.

16Or why was I not hidden like a stillborn child,
like an infant who never sees daylight?

17There the wicked cease from raging,
and there the weary find rest.

18The captives enjoy their ease;
they do not hear the voice of the oppressor.

19Both small and great are there,
and the slave is freed from his master.

heaven the gold and silver

hell city in ruins
 

massorite

Junior Member
Jan 3, 2015
544
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#36
Maybe they die and their corrupted spirit that was under the letter of the law (death) returns to the Holy Father of spirits and the faithless spiritless clay returns to the field of clay . In that way God can be true and every man a liar.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Many folks quote this verse as evidence that we go to heaven as soon as we die. But every body who uses Ecc 12:7 to prove that we go to heaven as soon as we die is very much misinformed and uneducated about what the verse actually says.
In Ecc 12:7 the word "spirit" means breath in the Hebrew. So this verse is in no way talking about going to heaven as soon as we die.
When we are born the first thing we do is take in our very first breath. This first breath is the breath of life. It is that which God gives us to animate our bodies. The Breath of life stays with us until the point of death and what happens at the point of death??? We beath our last breath and we exhale for the last time. That is when the Breath of life that God gave us when we were born, leaves us and goes back to God who gave it to us.
 

massorite

Junior Member
Jan 3, 2015
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#37
Job 3 does talk about either Or and the captives enjoy rest not memory laps. the stillborn unborn God knows

13For now I would be lying down in peace;
I would be asleep and at rest

14with kings and counselors of the earth,
who built for themselves cities now in ruins,

15or with princes who had gold,
who filled their houses with silver.

16Or why was I not hidden like a stillborn child,
like an infant who never sees daylight?

17There the wicked cease from raging,
and there the weary find rest.

18The captives enjoy their ease;
they do not hear the voice of the oppressor.

19Both small and great are there,
and the slave is freed from his master.

heaven the gold and silver

hell city in ruins
That is some interesting scripture.
 
Jun 10, 2019
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#38
That is some interesting scripture.
Yes a person can’t enjoy something if they don’t know or know what freedom is basically so the concept of sleep without consciousness isn’t logic IMO
 
Jun 10, 2019
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#39
The weary captive slave finds rest freedom joy
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#40
Job 3 does talk about either Or and the captives enjoy rest not memory laps. the stillborn unborn God knows

13For now I would be lying down in peace;
I would be asleep and at rest

14with kings and counselors of the earth,
who built for themselves cities now in ruins,

15or with princes who had gold,
who filled their houses with silver.

16Or why was I not hidden like a stillborn child,
like an infant who never sees daylight?

17There the wicked cease from raging,
and there the weary find rest.

18The captives enjoy their ease;
they do not hear the voice of the oppressor.

19Both small and great are there,
and the slave is freed from his master.

heaven the gold and silver

hell city in ruins
The scripture in Matthews tells us that there is a difference in death from the OT and the NT. In the OT the saints went to sleep, in the NT they will be with Christ in paradise. The question is where paradise is, is it the heaven where God the Father is?

2 Cor. 2: 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)

4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.