Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

[CS1]

The above was your response to my following post.

I am very interested in seeing the scriptures that state the water baptism is to be done as a public display.

I am very interested in you proving it was not. If it was done in private that would be very much contrary to the baptism done in the New Testament which I listed many posted ago that you clearly ignored:

Baptism Is Clearly done publicly :

1. John the Baptist baptized in the River Jordan John 1:28 states that John the Baptist was baptizing in "Bethany beyond the Jordan".
2. Jesus was baptized there and guess what there were witnesses to this being done because it was never a private
3. The Disciples Baptized and Jo0hn the Baptist was John 4:1 Therefore when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John 2(though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples), 3He left Judea and departed again to Galilee. 4But He needed to go through Samaria.

The idea that Baptism was not a public event is clearly rejecting what is in the Biblical account.

The heard, they saw, they went, they knew of those being baptized By John and then later Jesus disciples
The river Jordan we a public River have you been there to see? They still baptized there publicly

 

[garee]

Again, what is the name? In Jesus dwells the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

The Lord (Father), Jesus (Son), Christ (Holy Ghost).

Its simply attributes of God as the work of God's faith. A labor of love between the father and Son. Called one faith one Spirt ..one unseen baptism

That power does not come by us pronouncing words. . " father, son holy spirit" or getting a person wet. . . only to dry up and disappear. .
We can plant the incorruptible seed, the gospel, our "new tongue" as a kingdom of priest and we a can water it with the doctrines of God that fall from heaven like rain .But only he can cause growth or spirit life if any. His tongue as the power of the gospel. . . . has the power of new life or no new life but rather a continuing death. Those who love it are given a desire to want to obey.

Proverbs 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

No sign gifts to include water baptism . Prophecy is for believers. Spiritual gifts "not seen" yes. Confirming gifts by the things seen, no.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

I would think the kingdom understanding does come by applying the prescription for rightly dividing the parables Seeing without He spoke not. . It would appear they are the teachers of faith

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

 

[Wansvic]

you consistently fudge what you say, back peddle and post scripture unrelated to water baptism

anyone can see what you do is true though...and I don't mean posting scripture either

not many are reading your posts because we had this harangue by you last

I just like to point out the fallacies in what you post and you have outdone yourself

you concern yourself with baptism and baptizing in Jesus name only, this is what you major on.... while the author of nearly half the NT says this

For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void. I Corinthians 1:17

Interesting you accuse me of lecturing when I provide scriptures that point to truth concerning components necessary for salvation.
Everyone is free to refuse to believe that water baptism in Jesus' name is necessary. All will be responsible for their own choices.

As for Paul's comment, he did not mean people did not need to be water baptized. Paul had just finished telling them they should all be in unity and understand that they belonged to Christ because it was Jesus who was crucified for them and it was His name that was used in their water baptism.

"Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

 

[garee]

Interesting you accuse me of lecturing when I provide scriptures that point to truth concerning components necessary for salvation.
Everyone is free to refuse to believe that water baptism in Jesus' name is necessary. All will be responsible for their own choices.

As for Paul's comment, he did not mean people did not need to be water baptized. Paul had just finished telling them they should all be in unity and understand that they belonged to Christ because it was Jesus who was crucified for them and it was His name that was used in their water baptism.

"Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

Christ is not divided it is us that are. Iron sharpens iron.

 

[Wansvic]

that's baloney

you actually put a spin on your 5 point list because I pointed out to you that people spoke in tongues BEFORE baptism while you insist they must be baptized first

If it makes you feel better to believe this then go ahead. My posts speak for themselves. Have a good day.

 

[Wansvic]

I am very interested in you proving it was not. If it was done in private that would be very much contrary to the baptism done in the New Testament which I listed many posted ago that you clearly ignored:

Baptism Is Clearly done publicly :

1. John the Baptist baptized in the River Jordan John 1:28 states that John the Baptist was baptizing in "Bethany beyond the Jordan".
2. Jesus was baptized there and guess what there were witnesses to this being done because it was never a private
3. The Disciples Baptized and Jo0hn the Baptist was John 4:1 Therefore when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John 2(though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples), 3He left Judea and departed again to Galilee. 4But He needed to go through Samaria.

The idea that Baptism was not a public event is clearly rejecting what is in the Biblical account.

The heard, they saw, they went, they knew of those being baptized By John and then later Jesus disciples
The river Jordan we a public River have you been there to see? They still baptized there publicly

This response does not contain scripture expressing that water baptism is to be done as a public display.

No need to go round, and round any longer. Thanks for the discussion.

 

[garee]

This response does not contain scripture expressing that water baptism is to be done as a public display.

No need to go round, and round any longer. Thanks for the discussion.

You would need to go to the foundation of the doctrine in order to seek that.

Exodus 29:4 And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Interesting you accuse me of lecturing when I provide scriptures that point to truth concerning components necessary for salvation.
Everyone is free to refuse to believe that water baptism in Jesus' name is necessary. All will be responsible for their own choices.

As for Paul's comment, he did not mean people did not need to be water baptized. Paul had just finished telling them they should all be in unity and understand that they belonged to Christ because it was Jesus who was crucified for them and it was His name that was used in their water baptism.

"Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

I have never used the word lecture where you are concerned, but perhaps you fancy yourself to be a lecturer?

well anyway

once again you tack on a bunch of verses that have nothing whatsoever to do with the subject at hand

you have never, nor will you ever, provide any proof texts for your baptismal regeneration belief nor will you ever and have never, provided proof texts for a person receiving the Holy Spirit before salvation

you cannot change what Paul says here, as angry as you seem to get (I know when you get angry because you get very busy being insulted and accusing me of being anger when I am not at all angry) so you fluff up the Bible and quote verses that have no baring on this verse:

For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void. I Corinthians 1:17

I don't want you to miss it, because you must have missed it so far since you have not given any sort of response as to what Paul said

apparently, he did not make the fuss you make over baptism even though he wrote almost half the NT

your assertions are not biblical

 

[7seasrekeyed]

If it makes you feel better to believe this then go ahead. My posts speak for themselves. Have a good day.

I have no feelings one way or the other with regards to what you perceive

my only concern is for your dismal rendering of what baptism is actually about

your 5 point list is not in scripture and you have never admitted your error

it must be exhausting to be continually proven wrong and yet you have to keep up appearances

 

[CS1]

This response does not contain scripture expressing that water baptism is to be done as a public display.

No need to go round, and round any longer. Thanks for the discussion.

I'm sorry you don't think john 1:28 is scripture. Or John chapter 4. If you are looking for the word's "baptized in public" Te Word of God did not need to say that because it is clear it happened. You are not serious in this discussion, and I leave you to it. Thank you were done.

 

[Wansvic]

I have never used the word lecture where you are concerned, but perhaps you fancy yourself to be a lecturer?

well anyway

once again you tack on a bunch of verses that have nothing whatsoever to do with the subject at hand

you have never, nor will you ever, provide any proof texts for your baptismal regeneration belief nor will you ever and have never, provided proof texts for a person receiving the Holy Spirit before salvation

you cannot change what Paul says here, as angry as you seem to get (I know when you get angry because you get very busy being insulted and accusing me of being anger when I am not at all angry) so you fluff up the Bible and quote verses that have no baring on this verse:

For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void. I Corinthians 1:17

I don't want you to miss it, because you must have missed it so far since you have not given any sort of response as to what Paul said

apparently, he did not make the fuss you make over baptism even though he wrote almost half the NT

your assertions are not biblical

My comment concerning lecturing, was in response to your comment, "...not many are reading your posts because we had this harangue by you last..." I was not familiar with the word harangue so I looked up its meaning; the definition given was "a lengthy, aggressive speech/lecture."

Also, you may want to take the time to read posts before accusing me of not responding to something. It just so happens that the very post you replied to included my response concerning what Paul said:

Post 923: Interesting you accuse me of lecturing when I provide scriptures that point to truth concerning components necessary for salvation.
Everyone is free to refuse to believe that water baptism in Jesus' name is necessary. All will be responsible for their own choices.

As for Paul's comment, he did not mean people did not need to be water baptized. Paul had just finished telling them they should all be in unity and understand that they belonged to Christ because it was Jesus who was crucified for them and it was His name that was used in their water baptism.

"Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

 

[Wansvic]

the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin....and that happens BEFORE a person is filled with the Holy Spirit

Consider the word:
"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Rom 8:9

 

[Wansvic]

that's baloney

you actually put a spin on your 5 point list because I pointed out to you that people spoke in tongues BEFORE baptism while you insist they must be baptized first

further, you would have God filling people with His Spirit before salvation

you are not fooling anyone

You joined the conversation well after my initial comments: (posts 787, 791, 793)

Notice what the following scripture expresses. Water baptism in the name of Jesus and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Both water and Holy Ghost baptism are mentioned

Acts 2:38 “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”


When studying all of the verses regarding the Samaritan conversion it becomes clear that they first got water baptized in Jesus' name. Afterward Peter and John came to lay hands on them to receive the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8:12-17 “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
“For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.


Again, we see a group receiving both water and Holy Ghost baptism. Peter commanded the Gentiles to be water baptized in the name of Jesus after they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:44-48
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
“And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”


Paul informs the Ephesus disciples of the need to be re-water baptized because they were not water baptized in Jesus' name after His resurrection. The apostle's comment proves using the Lord's name was essential. After getting water baptized the group of men also received the baptism of the Holy Ghost when Paul laid hands upon them:

Acts 19:4-6
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


Paul's own conversion included water baptism as seen in Ananias statement to get baptized washing away sins calling on the name of the Lord. There is a direct parallel to Peter's words at Pentecost, "...be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16 “And now why tarriest you? arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”

The word records when Paul received the Holy Ghost:

Acts 9:17-18
And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.


In each case both water and Holy Ghost baptism are referenced. This debunks the idea that the Holy Ghost baptism replaced water baptism. Paul was still administering water baptism in Jesus' name approximately 19 years after Pentecost as shown in his ex.change with the Ephesus disciples in Acts Chapter 19. Also interesting to note is the fact that Paul stayed at Ephesus to teach others the necessary truth.

 

[garee]

I have never used the word lecture where you are concerned, but perhaps you fancy yourself to be a lecturer?

well anyway

once again you tack on a bunch of verses that have nothing whatsoever to do with the subject at hand

you have never, nor will you ever, provide any proof texts for your baptismal regeneration belief nor will you ever and have never, provided proof texts for a person receiving the Holy Spirit before salvation

you cannot change what Paul says here, as angry as you seem to get (I know when you get angry because you get very busy being insulted and accusing me of being anger when I am not at all angry) so you fluff up the Bible and quote verses that have no baring on this verse:

For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void. I Corinthians 1:17

I don't want you to miss it, because you must have missed it so far since you have not given any sort of response as to what Paul said

apparently, he did not make the fuss you make over baptism even though he wrote almost half the NT

your assertions are not biblical

Yes paul planted the incorruptible seed. The Spirit of Christ preached it causing its growth .

Preaching the gospel is the unseen work of the fathers hand baptizing a new heart and newly created spirit with the living water of the word.

When those who do not have faith, not little, none. They therefore cannot mix faith in what they see or hear see. . . the unseen working of the gospel being preached by Christ .Because they have no faith they attribute the work to the corrupted hands seen and make the apostles "gods in the likeness of men" a legion . Rather than walking by faith they blaspheme the holy name by which men are called heavenward.

It is in those kind of parables that God does teach us how to walk by faith mixing the unseen things of God with those of men

And there they preached the gospel.And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked:The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker. Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,Acts 14-7-14

 

[garee]

You joined the conversation well after my initial comments: (posts 787, 791, 793)

You must be seeing a mirage .There is no water there. .Just the unseen Holy Spirit .

We must be careful on how we hear. . . mixing it with faith the law of the unseen understanding.

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:

 

[CS1]

You joined the conversation well after my initial comments: (posts 787, 791, 793)

I thought you were done? lol

 

[Wansvic]

I thought you were done? lol

Since my initial membership to this forum 7seasrekeyed has attempted to silence me through rude attacks and misleading comments.

Since both you and 7seas… disagreed with the comment that my posts speak for themselves, (Post 925) I felt it necessary to provide the actual statement. (Post 793- included below) You may think this is a laughing matter but I assure you it is not. What you don’t seem to comprehend is why it is important that the truth be presented.

People resort to discrediting others when they cannot deny the truth of what actually resides in the biblical record. Regardless of whether intentional or through ignorance the object is to convince others that the person is not to be trusted. Thus, the flow of God’s truth pertaining to a given subject is stifled.

I was unjustly accused this time and many others by 7seas… On a personal level it does not concern me one way or another; I am not thin skinned as is frequently accused. However, what I cannot accept is that others could possibly be persuaded to bypass posts because of another’s misrepresentation of a person's character.

7seas… accused me of lying when in fact 7seas… was not being honest. Only God and they know whether it was intentional or through ignorance.


Copy of Post 793:

Notice what the following scripture expresses. Water baptism in the name of Jesus and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Both water and Holy Ghost baptism are mentioned

Acts 2:38 “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”


When studying all of the verses regarding the Samaritan conversion it becomes clear that they first got water baptized in Jesus' name. Afterward Peter and John came to lay hands on them to receive the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8:12-17 “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
“For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.


Again, we see a group receiving both water and Holy Ghost baptism. Peter commanded the Gentiles to be water baptized in the name of Jesus after they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:44-48
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
“And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”


Paul informs the Ephesus disciples of the need to be re-water baptized because they were not water baptized in Jesus' name after His resurrection. The apostle's comment proves using the Lord's name was essential. After getting water baptized the group of men also received the baptism of the Holy Ghost when Paul laid hands upon them:

Acts 19:4-6
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


Paul's own conversion included water baptism as seen in Ananias statement to get baptized washing away sins calling on the name of the Lord. There is a direct parallel to Peter's words at Pentecost, "...be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16 “And now why tarriest you? arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”

The word records when Paul received the Holy Ghost:

Acts 9:17-18
And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.


In each case both water and Holy Ghost baptism are referenced. This debunks the idea that the Holy Ghost baptism replaced water baptism. Paul was still administering water baptism in Jesus' name approximately 19 years after Pentecost as shown in his ex.change with the Ephesus disciples in Acts Chapter 19. Also interesting to note is the fact that Paul stayed at Ephesus to teach others the necessary truth.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Since my initial membership to this forum 7seasrekeyed has attempted to silence me through rude attacks and misleading comments.

Since both you and 7seas… disagreed with the comment that my posts speak for themselves, (Post 925) I felt it necessary to provide the actual statement. (Post 793- included below) You may think this is a laughing matter but I assure you it is not. What you don’t seem to comprehend is why it is important that the truth be presented.

People resort to discrediting others when they cannot deny the truth of what actually resides in the biblical record. Regardless of whether intentional or through ignorance the object is to convince others that the person is not to be trusted. Thus, the flow of God’s truth pertaining to a given subject is stifled.

I was unjustly accused this time and many others by 7seas… On a personal level it does not concern me one way or another; I am not thin skinned as is frequently accused. However, what I cannot accept is that others could possibly be persuaded to bypass posts because of another’s misrepresentation of a person's character.

7seas… accused me of lying when in fact 7seas… was not being honest. Only God and they know whether it was intentional or through ignorance.

took you 2 days to come up with this ?

listen...you would not know the truth if it interrupted your fibs

 

[Wansvic]

took you 2 days to come up with this ?

listen...you would not know the truth if it interrupted your fibs

This post was in response to CS1 comment this morning.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I thought you were done too

LOL!

I'm not the reason people have a problem with your posts

they have a problem because what you believe is not in the Bible

this is what people are having a problem with:

filled with the Holy Spirit before salvation? you say yes, Bible says no

baptized or a person is not saved? you say yes, Bible says no

if baptized not using Jesus name only, must be re baptized you say yes, Bible says no

water washes away your sins you say yes to water regeneration, Bible says no

you ask for scripture to support the responses you get, people give you the scripture and you ignore it and then you post on an old thread to pretend you forgot something to cover the fact that scripture clearly showed that you were not following what it says

so whatever

you may not be done, but I am done with your inability to address what is posted and then complaining that people are trying to silence you

you are still here. so obviously no one has silenced you nor have they tried to do so