Does man have a libertarian free will?

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Does man have a libertarian free will?

  • Yes, man has a libertarian free will

    Votes: 12 41.4%
  • No, man does not have a libertarian free will

    Votes: 16 55.2%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 1 3.4%

  • Total voters
    29

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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Read the whole passage. God's threat was obviously conditional based on repentance. And the threat caused them to repent.
Do you think God makes empty threats? If so, do you believe hell is real or is it just some kind of scare-tactic, in your opinion?
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Do you think God makes empty threats? If so, do you believe hell is real or is it just some kind of scare-tactic, in your opinion?
Empty threats cannot motivate people.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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The OT saints could have their sins forgiven by following the law.
Not at all. The Law only proved how sinful they were. Good people do not need Law. God had to threaten them with death to obey it.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Agree, and God don't make empty threats or lie either. So you might want to rethink all of your last posts...just saying
My posts take this into account. Scripture shows the threat was conditional or God would have destroyed them regardless. Look at the big picture to see what it all means.
 
Feb 28, 2016
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because he struggles with a remnant of the old nature called "the flesh", (((but that is his consistent desire and direction))).
==========================================
this is 'totally-false' -
upon 'conversion', a 'super-natural-experience', one's desire is only to serve their new found 'Holy-Master, Jesus Christ' -
yes, we struggle in our continual 'over-coming', but we know for sure in our hearts that we will never betray our Saviour,
no matter how much arguing our flesh does with The Spirit = this is our only Hope of becoming a 'member' of
God's Holy Kingdom...
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,912
113
My posts take this into account. Scripture shows the threat was conditional or God would have destroyed them regardless. Look at the big picture to see what it all means.
God means what he says and says what he means, he don't make empty threats. He was going to destroy them in 40 days. He wasn't lying or just trying to scare them. When they repented he changed his mind.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,687
3,545
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Not at all. The Law only proved how sinful they were. Good people do not need Law. God had to threaten them with death to obey it.
Not to be mean, but you should know your Bible before you post.

Leviticus 4:20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.

Leviticus 4:26 And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him.

Leviticus 4:31
And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat is taken away from off the sacrifice of peace offerings; and the priest shall burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour unto the Lord; and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him.

Leviticus 4:35 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them upon the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the Lord: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him.

Leviticus 5:10 And he shall offer the second for a burnt offering, according to the manner: and the priest shall make an atonement for him for his sin which he hath sinned, and it shall be forgiven him.

Leviticus 5:13 And the priest shall make an atonement for him as touching his sin that he hath sinned in one of these, and it shall be forgiven him: and the remnant shall be the priest's, as a meat offering.

Leviticus 5:16 And he shall make amends for the harm that he hath done in the holy thing, and shall add the fifth part thereto, and give it unto the priest: and the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering, and it shall be forgiven him.

Leviticus 5:18 And he shall bring a ram without blemish out of the flock, with thy estimation, for a trespass offering, unto the priest: and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his ignorance wherein he erred and wist it not, and it shall be forgiven him.

Leviticus 6:7 And the priest shall make an atonement for him before the Lord: and it shall be forgiven him for any thing of all that he hath done in trespassing therein.

Leviticus 19:22 And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the Lord for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.

Shall I go on?
 
Jan 17, 2020
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God means what he says and says what he means, he don't make empty threats. He was going to destroy them in 40 days. He wasn't lying or just trying to scare them. When they repented he changed his mind.
His plan is unchangeable. From eternity before creation, he planned all that you see taking place. Even what you think is a change of mind.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,701
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Law cannot save.
The law pointed to and foreshadowed that which could save. This is why OT Abraham's faithfulness saved him.

Romans 4
4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.
4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,687
3,545
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So they would take him seriously?
And they did take God seriously because God was going to destroy them. Who can tell? Nineveh didn't know if God would repent or not, but their repentance was their only hope.

9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Not to be mean, but you should know your Bible before you post.

Leviticus 4:20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.

Leviticus 4:26 And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him.

Leviticus 4:31
And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat is taken away from off the sacrifice of peace offerings; and the priest shall burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour unto the Lord; and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him.

Leviticus 4:35 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them upon the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the Lord: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him.

Leviticus 5:10 And he shall offer the second for a burnt offering, according to the manner: and the priest shall make an atonement for him for his sin which he hath sinned, and it shall be forgiven him.

Leviticus 5:13 And the priest shall make an atonement for him as touching his sin that he hath sinned in one of these, and it shall be forgiven him: and the remnant shall be the priest's, as a meat offering.

Leviticus 5:16 And he shall make amends for the harm that he hath done in the holy thing, and shall add the fifth part thereto, and give it unto the priest: and the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering, and it shall be forgiven him.

Leviticus 5:18 And he shall bring a ram without blemish out of the flock, with thy estimation, for a trespass offering, unto the priest: and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his ignorance wherein he erred and wist it not, and it shall be forgiven him.

Leviticus 6:7 And the priest shall make an atonement for him before the Lord: and it shall be forgiven him for any thing of all that he hath done in trespassing therein.

Leviticus 19:22 And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the Lord for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.

Shall I go on?
This was not salvation. it was the law under threat of death for wicked unbelievers.

“But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;” 1 Timothy 1:8–10 (KJV 1900)

The few saved were already save in the new birth apart from the law.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,912
113
What about Hezekiah, was he just trying to scare him or what when he sent the prophet to tell him to get his house in order because he would die and not live? We know God don't lie, so I'm sure Hezekiah was getting ready to die, but when he turned to the wall and began to pray...God changed his mind and sent the prophet back to tell him that he was going to give him 15 more years.

If you don't think God can change his mind then explain that for me.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,687
3,545
113
His plan is unchangeable. From eternity before creation, he planned all that you see taking place. Even what you think is a change of mind.
That's just not biblical. Many things occur that is not planned by God. Where's the accountability of man if all is planned by God? How can God hold anyone accountable for sin if He planned it?
 
Jan 17, 2020
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And they did take God seriously because God was going to destroy them. Who can tell? Nineveh didn't know if God would repent or not, but their repentance was their only hope.

9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
He planned for them to take him seriously.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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That's just not biblical. Many things occur that is not planned by God. Where's the accountability of man if all is planned by God? How can God hold anyone accountable for sin if He planned it?
Who created all? Including the future?