Not By Works
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That's kind of the issue with OSAS. It's not that we shouldn't have security in God's faithfulness and trust Him to deliver us. It's that many who hear the message, whether saved or not, hear it as exactly that. This is a sensitive issue for me because a big part of me not accepting the gospel was the mixed messaging in the reformed presentation. What I was hearing was that according to God I was a miserable piece of filth deserving of judgment, but if I played my cards right He'd pretend I was a priceless treasure on account of His suffering. I was repulsed by the injustice and determined to get what I deserved, and if that was hell so be it. I even threw out my Bible and declared the whole thing a lie because I couldn't get past that notion because it had been so deeply engrained in me.
I kept hearing it didn't matter what I did, God loved me in spite of the fact that I was really a piece of garbage only fit for destruction. He'd let that slide and pretend otherwise. I could sin if I wanted, as long as I believed the right thing. In fact, I couldn't avoid sinning because by nature I am a sinner.
Whether intentional or not, that was always what I heard from "grace" preachers. Does any of that sound like the gospel? Because I sure don't think so.
I kept hearing it didn't matter what I did, God loved me in spite of the fact that I was really a piece of garbage only fit for destruction. He'd let that slide and pretend otherwise. I could sin if I wanted, as long as I believed the right thing. In fact, I couldn't avoid sinning because by nature I am a sinner.
Whether intentional or not, that was always what I heard from "grace" preachers. Does any of that sound like the gospel? Because I sure don't think so.
HEY EVERY OSAS BELIEVER, LOOK WHAT I FOUND!
This is the Coup de grâce to use a Fencing term for the FINISHING MOVE.
Ephesians 6:24 (HCSB)
24 Grace be with all who have undying love for our Lord Jesus Christ.
{No such thing as a born again Christian that can lose his or her SALVATION.}
Save that in your quick file for debating people who don't want to believe the TRUTH.
Here are the Translations that Use UNDYING LOVE:
HCSB, NRSV, NIV, GWT, CSB-BIBLE, NET
Here are the Translations that Use LOVE INCORRUPTIBLE or INCORRUPTIBLE LOVE:
ASV, NASB, NASB77, ESV, MACE
Here is the Translation that Uses LOVE THAT NEVER ENDS:
NCV
Here is the Translation that Uses loving our Lord Jesus Christ--undecayingly! Amen.
YLT
This is the Coup de grâce to use a Fencing term for the FINISHING MOVE.
Ephesians 6:24 (HCSB)
24 Grace be with all who have undying love for our Lord Jesus Christ.
{No such thing as a born again Christian that can lose his or her SALVATION.}
Save that in your quick file for debating people who don't want to believe the TRUTH.
Here are the Translations that Use UNDYING LOVE:
HCSB, NRSV, NIV, GWT, CSB-BIBLE, NET
Here are the Translations that Use LOVE INCORRUPTIBLE or INCORRUPTIBLE LOVE:
ASV, NASB, NASB77, ESV, MACE
Here is the Translation that Uses LOVE THAT NEVER ENDS:
NCV
Here is the Translation that Uses loving our Lord Jesus Christ--undecayingly! Amen.
YLT
Actually with GES it is embraced. No antinomian believes they're antinomian. Both camps preach one can live however they want after "salvation" and still expect eternal life, that it only effects rewards. Nope. Ones life confirms or denies true conversion; 2 Corinthians 3:18ff; 1 John; Jude; 2 Peter all describe false conversions compared to true.
Statements of faith only go so far, and are generally undone when the teaching begins. GES has a video where it officially states what I've shown. Proponents of DTS's FGT teach the same things.
Statements of faith only go so far, and are generally undone when the teaching begins. GES has a video where it officially states what I've shown. Proponents of DTS's FGT teach the same things.
Apparently a sinless person can falsely accuse others and somehow still not sin... I wish I knew how to do that, ole me is stuck here with Jesus forgiving me when I stray off the path. People don't want to talk about realities of Christian life, it is vulnerable and uncomfortable. It's sometimes a big struggle with some sins, addictions, lusts, grudges, it's different for everyone, most people will have something they struggle with and want off them, but it won't always happen overnight. Sometimes there is a dark cycle of guilt, shame, frustration with yourself, despair and doubts, before the dawn comes and you are free. Sometimes you're not even aware of something until God convicts you, brings to your attention that it must go. The only thing that helps to the person who falls is renewal of the mind and putting forth faith that Jesus will finish what He started in them. I wonder if some are simply blind to their shortcomings, or forgot their beginnings, or never had any weakness, but I doubt that, because God confounds. Peter was so strong and zealous, God had Peter renounce Him three times on purpose like a coward, just because he said "I would never". Jesus made him ashamed to make him more understanding towards weaker members of the church and to let him know that he fell short, like everyone else.
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My bike don't peddle in reverse. Been preaching for years about the diff between the saved Just Man and the formerly saved backslidden hypocrite who says "thus far and no further, Lord". The one continues to abide in the Vine, while the other is gettin his celestial GPS route reconfigured from heaven to the Lake of Fire.
No, I did not mean it that way.
God knew the outcome in advance and told Peter, and then Peter said "I would never!" Then swallowed his words. It was more embarassing because Peter didn't acknowledge he had weakness too. God didn't cause Peter to sin but he forethought the events. Maybe prompted people to ask Peter questions.
God knew the outcome in advance and told Peter, and then Peter said "I would never!" Then swallowed his words. It was more embarassing because Peter didn't acknowledge he had weakness too. God didn't cause Peter to sin but he forethought the events. Maybe prompted people to ask Peter questions.
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Ok, though it seems to me you're generalizing with your criticism. Those who speak of the need for obedience don't necessarily hold themselves faultless, especially in a discussion like this. If they were out yelling at people trapped in addiction to stop sinning, then yeah that's a problem. But they're not, they're confronting people who have appointed themselves teachers telling them to be wary of the unintended consequences of their message. When it comes down to Scriptural discussion on the matter its more often speaking past each other and each side citing verses and reading them through their paradigm. And when it comes down to brass tacks OSAS proponents fall into an often false humility accusing those who propose the modest proposition that God is not mocked aren't aware of their shortcomings/sins.
I do apologize for not being charitable with my reading of your statement.
I do apologize for not being charitable with my reading of your statement.
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