Not By Works

[miknik5]

Let me clarify something. I don't want @EleventhHour blamed for her siggy pic. I was looking for animated gifs, and I found that one, and mentioned to her that she should add it to her signature. Please don't get miffed at her-- it was MY idea..

I think it's actually appropriate, especially for THIS forum. LOL

I asked her to take it down...it does nothing to encourage ongoing debate...it actually closes down the conversation and implies that her post was with right understanding while the others post was not...it is an intimidating unnecessary addition to a debate...and should not be used...

 

[Bbrdrd]

The works in Romans is not based on the Law...it is based on the righteousness which is of faith...and the power of The GOSPEL unto ALL WHO BELIEVE>..both the Jew, who had the law, and the Gentile, who did not...

The context of Romans is the law. What else does Paul say in Romans?
"For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the law who will be declared righteous "
"
"Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law."

Paul was not teaching that we are set free from a moral law in Romans, or that somehow our obligation to obey God had changed. What is supposed to change is our understanding of what it means to be righteous and wicked.

The key difference is your hope seems to be in Christ's death, and if that's what you want that's what you'll receive. My hope is in His resurrection. I have been made alive so that I may be a slave of righteousness. Because we are slaves to what masters us.

 

[Bbrdrd]

what?????????????

Sorry, that's a bit of my own personal theory slipping through. In order for justice to be served, there must not only be a crime but also consciousness of crime. In the crucifixion the righteousness of the law was established in that it was proven it would not convict an innocent man.

I'm not sure what Christ set you free from, but for me it wasn't the law but sin.

 

[EleventhHour]

I asked her to take it down...it does nothing to encourage ongoing debate...it actually closes down the conversation and implies that her post was with right understanding while the others post was not...it is an intimidating unnecessary addition to a debate...and should not be used...

Believe me I did not do it for you but for personal reasons.

Telling people to go read Ephesians does not really invite healthy debate either.
Which is indirect way of saying "I get it and you do not because you have not studied enough"

Your style is the same on other threads.

 

[blue_ladybug]

I asked her to take it down...it does nothing to encourage ongoing debate...it actually closes down the conversation and implies that her post was with right understanding while the others post was not...it is an intimidating unnecessary addition to a debate...and should not be used...

Well, we're both still engaging in conversation on this thread, sooo.. Obviously communication is still open. I'm sorry if you take offense to it, but I am NOT removing the cat one from mine..

What @EleventhHour chooses to do with hers, is up to her.

 

[miknik5]

The context of Romans is the law. What else does Paul say in Romans?
"For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the law who will be declared righteous "

Does the WORD of GOD say that there are none righteous, all have sinned? If the WORD says this, who will be justified, sir?

This also, had you continued in reading all of Romans, is written...
Therefore NONE will be justified by the LAW, sir..

Please read the full letter.

You can not read a portion of a letter and claim to understand....you wouldn´t do that with any writing, how can you do it with GODŚ WORD

 

[miknik5]

Believe me I did not do it for you but for personal reasons.

Telling people to go read Ephesians does not really invite healthy debate either.
Which is indirect way of saying "I get it and you do not because you have not studied enough"

Your style is the same on other threads.

It means,let them READ THE WORD of GOD for themselves...maybe, GOD will open their eyes and they will understand...
It is better to let GODŚ WORD speak than for us to somehow recap for them what HE says...

My hope is that anyone looking in, WILL go to the scripture mentioned and read for themselves...

 

[Bbrdrd]

Does the WORD of GOD say that there are none righteous, all have sinned? If the WORD says this, who will be justified, sir?

This also, had you continued in reading all of Romans, is written...
Therefore NONE will be justified by the LAW, sir..

Please read the full letter.

You can not read a portion of a letter and claim to understand....you wouldn´t do that with any writing, how can you do it with GODŚ WORD

Again, context matters. The declaration there is not a sweeping declaration about anthropology but a rhetorical flourish. If we look to the same Psalm Paul quoted we have "There they are in great terror, for God is with the generation of the righteous. " How could God be with an entire generation of righteous if there are none righteous? I never said justification comes via the law. Obedience to God is duty, Heis not indebted to us for doing our duty. But to divorce works from faith simply pits Paul against the testimony of the rest of the Bible. Even Paul against Paul who said "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil. "

 

[miknik5]

My goodness! Eleventh Hour, you took it down...

I wan´t to tell you how much I appreciate you doing this,.

I know you won´t believe it, but I am actually crying...

Thank you, I truly do appreciate it...

 

[miknik5]

Again, context matters. The declaration there is not a sweeping declaration about anthropology but a rhetorical flourish. If we look to the same Psalm Paul quoted we have "There they are in great terror, for God is with the generation of the righteous. " How could God be with an entire generation of righteous if there are none righteous? I never said justification comes via the law. Obedience to God is duty, Heis not indebted to us for doing our duty. But to divorce works from faith simply pits Paul against the testimony of the rest of the Bible. Even Paul against Paul who said "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil. "

I want you to read Haggai 2 if you wish to overlook what the WORD of GOD said to those who knew and read the WORD as written in Romans with regards none are righteous...

Please advise how you will get around GOD declaring all unclean.

 

[EleventhHour]

My goodness! Eleventh Hour, you took it down...

I wan´t to tell you how much I appreciate you doing this,.

I know you won´t believe it, but I am actually crying...

Thank you, I truly do appreciate it...

Yeah, well you threatened to have been banned, did I have a choice.

 

[EleventhHour]

 

[miknik5]

If the Law already states that all have sinned, all are unclean, who will open their mouth before GOD and declare that they followed HIS law?

They can´t

Just as Romans 3 continues on to say...

 

[miknik5]

Yeah, well you threatened to have been banned, did I have a choice.

Banned? I threatened to report the post...would you have been banned, or would they have said, remove the post

 

[blue_ladybug]

Yeah, well you threatened to have been banned, did I have a choice.

YES. Because how silly is it to report someone's signature gif? Especially when several other users here have similar pics as THEIR siggies and avatars..

 

[EleventhHour]

Banned? I threatened to report the post...would you have been banned, or would they have said, remove the post

Okay ...threatened to report me.
Anyway done....movin on.

 

[Bbrdrd]

I want you to read Haggai 2 if you wish to overlook what the WORD of GOD said to those who knew and read the WORD as written in Romans with regards none are righteous...

Please advise how you will get around GOD declaring all unclean.

You're taking the declaration in Romans too far. The declaration of uncleanness/unrighteousness is simply an acknowledgement all sin. It does not mean all are filthy sinners deserving of nothing more than fire and brimstone, nor that all are deserving of condemnation. We all need to be cleansed, and God provides that cleansing. Not absolving us of our sins, but cleansing from them and freedom from them. Otherwise the declarations that Job, and David, and Noah were righteous makes no sense. The claims of righteous generations and the admonitions in the wisdom books to live righteously makes no sense if none are righteous. You are in effect saying there is no such thing as sin if there is none righteous, and denying any ability for justice to be made manifest. Either he is unjust in selecting some for no reason to be saved while damning others through no fault of their own, or he damns everyone.

 

[miknik5]

Yeah, well you threatened to have been banned, did I have a choice.

I love you...You are a wonderful minister of the WORD...you are needed here...I just don´t think your images add to your understanding...or to others...understanding...

 

[EleventhHour]

YES. Because how silly is it to report someone's signature gif? Especially when several other users here have similar pics as THEIR siggies and avatars..

Amen Blue... where we would be without you and your common sense approach.

Thanks!!

And have a coffee on me.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Banned? I threatened to report the post...would you have been banned, or would they have said, remove the post

They wouldn't have done either. Her gif wasn't violating the TOS here, and neither is mine.

Now if it had been a gif of someone flipping the bird, THAT WOULD be a bannable offense..