Not By Works

[BillG]

I stopped tryign to assume what people will say along time ago. they suprise me, while at the same time, don't suprise me.

Do I think he will admit he sins? yes

Do I think he understands what that means about himself in relation to the law? No.

If past sins are forgiven but not future sins then how are future sins (actually present known sins) forgiven?

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

Uh oh. Someone’s rattled. I encourage you to read Psalm 31 in its entirety, paying particular attention to the second half of verse 17 and all of verse 18. You’re described to a T.

"He who does what is right is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared what to destroy the works of the devil."
You're described to a T.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

So you my friend, Have not kept the law either. so why judge me because I admit I have not kept it myself? meaning I am just as guilty as you are

You are speaking of someone who hasn’t been converted yet.

After conversion you are a new creation, old things ARE passed away. We are no longer law breakers, unless we make ourselves lawbreakers again (Galatians 2:18).

 

[Lightskin]

Romans 3:25

2 Peter 1:9

(But you have to remove your OSAS glasses first before you read these verses).

Like I said, a load of crap. The verses you provide state nothing in defense of your heresy. You simply twist the truth at will. You deflect the incorrectness of your views by attempting to put the onus back onto your detractors, stating they must remove themselves from how they see things. Cowardly, deceptive tactic.

You put stumbling blocks up that prevent people who are weak in the faith to grasp the Truth regarding Jesus’ saving grace. You shut out the kingdom of heaven against others. You don’t go in yourself nor do you let others enter. Jesus said these things to the Pharisees 2,000 years ago and His words hold true regarding you today.

 

[BillG]

I am sure you know this, and I AM UNCERTAIN what all
Micaiah-imla actually believes. I believe, the moment we
Born Again Christians DIE, the propensity to sin, is also DEAD, too.
IT WILL NOT BE A PART OF THE RESURRECTED BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN.
YES, I certainly believe the Born Again Human Spirit will NEVER DIE.

I totally agree but said person seemed to indicate whilst in heaven we could still sin, given angels in heaven sinned.

I asked the question but no response.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I would encourage others to read these verses for themselves. This person’s assessment of these verses is in error and/or incomplete.

Yet this person could not show where I got these passages wrong, He just said I was wrong

if I was so wrong, this person could show me in writting where I messed up in my assessment of how we are BEING justified freely BY GODS GRACE, through HIS REDEMPTION.

of course, he can't. so he wont. he will just tell others he is wrong, because it is all he has.

Micaiah-imla. I am not trying tp puff myself up. I am seriously worried about you. You can continue in your path, Or you can sit and consider what I have wrote. and ask God why he stated through paul what he stated in this passage. aboout how we ALL are sinner (we all are guilty of Gods law) and how he is in the process of justifying us who have recieved him day by day

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If past sins are forgiven but not future sins then how are future sins (actually present known sins) forgiven?

I have asked this numerous times

If the penalty of sin is still death, Then how can anything but our own death be made as payment for those sins?

I have yet to be given an answer

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are speaking of someone who hasn’t been converted yet.

After conversion you are a new creation, old things ARE passed away. We are no longer law breakers, unless we make ourselves lawbreakers again (Galatians 2:18).

lol. You almost Got it right

We are new creation, Old things are passaed away.

yet we are still lawbreakers (it only takes one sin, so unless yuo are sinless. you are still considered by the law a lawbreaker)

You left out verse 20. As paul said, I am crucified with Christ, it si no longer I who live, but christ who lives in me

Again, John said those born of God can not live in sin, Whoever lives in sin has never seen or Known God. And as Jesus said, Even if they claim to do the works of God, he still has never known them.

 

[BillG]

I have asked this numerous times

If the penalty of sin is still death, Then how can anything but our own death be made as payment for those sins?

I have yet to be given an answer

So the following has not come into play yet?

1 John 1:9-10
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

I will let him know you call some of his children wicked. is that ok?

I did not call anybody here wicked.

I was simply pointing out the scripture that should cause you to re-think the sayings of OSAS.

 

[VCO]

I don’t see “past, present, and future sins are forgiven” here. But we know that past sins are already forgiven.

HOW MANY OF YOUR SINS WERE YET FUTURE, went JESUS PAID FOR THEM ON THE CROSS ? ? ?

REPENT of your ERROR?

Romans 5:8-11 (HCSB)
8 But God proves His own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us!
9 Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath.
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!
11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ. We have now received this reconciliation through Him.


YOU HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR PAYMENT OF SINS.

 

[Lightskin]

He who does what is sinful is of the devil

Then I suggest you stop sinning and give credit where credit is due ~ Jesus Christ’s perfect life, death and Resurrection.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So the following has not come into play yet?

1 John 1:9-10
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

How can confession make up for death?

 

[BillG]

How can confession make up for death?

Those who believe that future sins are not forgive quote that verse in order to be forgiven.

If we confess then God will forgive, if not then not.

 

[CherieR]

I have asked this numerous times

If the penalty of sin is still death, Then how can anything but our own death be made as payment for those sins?

I have yet to be given an answer

Could you rephrase the question please? Does Hebrew 9:27-28 help?

 

[Finepearl]

The will of our Heavenly Father is that we have faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus teaches us that whoever believes in Him is saved, not whoever works is saved.

My previous post make it clear I accept none can earn salvation by works. The scriptures are clear on the importance of works. Faith without works is dead - not my words see [James 2:26]

 

[azamzimtoti]

Where'd DestroyJesusChurch go?

 

[Finepearl]

You misinterpreted Matthew 7:21-23 and OSAS is not the issue here because these many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 were not saved and lost their salvation. In Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. *John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. These many people in Matthew 7:22-23 were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts. Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many alleged wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain salvation by works. This is why Jesus referred to these many people as "workers of iniquity." God does not see the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9) in unbelievers, but He see's all of their sins which remain and have not been washed away by the blood of Christ.

I do not question that salvation is a free gift and dependent on faith not works. My previous posts show that. My point is that works in demonstration of our faith is important. James clearly states at James 2:26 Faith without works is dead. Jesus gives the qualifying requirements for entry into the Kingdom at Mathew 7: 21-23 regardless of whom we are talking about. It is the one 'doing' the will of Jesus Father who will enter the Kingdom. [Not my words].

 

[Finepearl]

I think alot of people get James mixed up. James focus is not on works. His focus is on a claimed faith which is dead. Not real.

What does it profit anyone if they CLAIM to have faith (the focus) But has no works, Can that faith (a claimed faith only) Save them?

As you said, even demons believe, But we see they never trusted God, that's why they are called demons now, and not Angels.

As paul said in Eph 2, Those who are saved BY grace through faith are new creations, and as a new creation, we will do the works God created for us to do.

If we look at it this way, We see works are a byproduct, or a result of our faith and being made into new creation.

Thus James is stating a pretty hard fact. If we claim to have faith, But do not have the works Paul said we would have, Because true faith works, and as new creatures, we act our new nature not our old. Then our faith is dead.

Can that faith save us? No! Never could, never will.

Saying works are required is a danger, and tends to lead toward legalism, pride. And in essence makes james contradict paul. Who said specifically, No works ever had any part in our being made new creatures in Christ

I agree with your comments almost entirely with exception: I do think James focus is on works in demonstration of faith. He even cites Abraham and Rahab as examples of works of faith. I also believe the scriptures, not me, are saying works are required in demonstration of our faith. I believe your comments say the same thing.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I did not call anybody here wicked.

I was simply pointing out the scripture that should cause you to re-think the sayings of OSAS.

Your the one who needs to rethink my friend

eternal life is eternal not conditional

you teach conditional life which is not found in scripture