Not By Works

[Micaiah-imla]

EVERY BIT OF YOUR POST that I printed in RED is a FALSE OPINION OF WHAT GENUINE ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED actually mean by that HANDLE, OSAS. YOU DID NOT GET A SINGLE THING THAT TRUE BORN AGAIN OSAS Christian actually BELIEVE, and it is 180 Degrees the opposite of our BELIEFS.

You let others taint your opinion of OSAS.

You maybe on Path that leads to DESTRUCTION. I can not TELL, YET. But I obviously came threw the NARROW GATE, and so did MOST OF THE OTHERS on this thread, AND OUR SALVATION was SECURE before we ever willingly, out of AGAPE LOVE, did our first DEED. You apparently Struggle to do what you think is considered RIGHTEOUSNESS, and if so, YOU ARE WRONG, and it is just FILTHY RAGS you have been piling up, {you do not want to even know what kind of rags those are}.

Here is where you went WRONG, if you do it for the RIGHT MOTIVE, (AGAPE LOVE), then there is Peace that Surpasses all of your Understanding, Contentment in ADVERSE CIRCUMSTANCES, JOY even in the hard times, AND an ACT OF AGAPE LOVE AS A LIFESTYLE, brings PLEASURE to YOU, because just to be SERVING HIM brings joy and pleasure.

It maybe OVER YOUR HEAD, that we do not HAVE TO SERVE HIM, BUT TRULY WANT TO BECAUSE WE LOVE HIM, ALSO, there would be extreme Joy just to be serving HIM, after HE instantly Saved US PERMANENTLY, the very MOMENT HE GAVE US SAVING FAITH. It is ALL something we WANT TO DO, because it Pleases HIM and US.

For you, it might be, Serving what you think is serving the LORD, BUT IT IS A CHORE.

For OSAS Believers, it is a JOY and PEACE with GOD, and a longing EXPECTATION TO HEAR THE SHOUT, "BEHOLD THE BRIDEGROOM COMES!"

You should choose your words more carefully in the future; because you give us the impression, that you are a spin off of works righteousness False Doctrine. BUT you NEED TO UNDERSTAND Salvation is PERMANENT, and it happens in the moment SAVING FAITH CAME IN, and you WILL NOT chose to reject HIM, because HE AUTOMATICALLY CHANGED YOUR HUMAN SPIRIT THE MOMENT HE (the HOLY SPIRIT) came INTO YOUR HEART. A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN IS A PERMANENT CHANGE IN YOUR HEART (the Human Spirit), to Eternal Life. Yes, there are lots of disciples that are not Born Again. But only BORN AGAIN Christians are TRUE BELIEVERS that are going to HEAVEN when HE CALLS the BRIDE OUT.

1 Thessalonians 1:5 (NASB)
5 for our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction; just as you know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake.

Less than FULL CONVICTION, is not BORN AGAIN. Those are the ones, IF YOU THINK they are SAVED, when they are NOT, then you erroneously think they lost their salvation. They are just those that FOLLOW HIM for a little while, like a rock star FAN; and then they are GONE. THEY WERE NEVER BORN AGAIN AND NEVER TRULY SAVED. They are the people on the BROAD ROAD THAT CAME THROUGH THE WIDE GATE, but they NEVER WERE A REAL Born Again CHRISTIAN.

When YOU ABSOLUTELY KNOW YOU ARE SAVED; this verse will firm up that belief:

Romans 11:29 (HCSB)
29 since God’s gracious gifts and calling are irrevocable.


YES we KNOW Phonies are in our churches, BUT WE WANT THEM THERE. BECAUSE FAITH COMES BY HEARING. So DO NOT LOOK at a FEW of the non-Born Again, you take their misunderstanding, that fit what you want to believe OSAS, and proceed to LABEL the Truly Born Again, as believing that same FALSE THEORY. Have the courtesy to ASK what we REALLY Believe from one of us TRULY Born Again Believers what I or another {and there are SEVERAL ON THIS THREAD, like YOU said,} INSTEAD Labeling THOSE WHO ARE REALLY BORN AGAIN, as THE EXACT SAME same believes as what the Phonies want to believe. ASK US WHAT WE ACTUALLY BELIEVE, and we will tell you, and THEN stop telling the FALSE STATEMENTS that only People who do not know better, who only assume OSAS, means what YOU ASSUME IT MEAN, in your post above in the RED INK, A TOTALLY FALSE STATEMENT. HERE are those who fall away, and NOTICE, they are NOT PART OF THE BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN CHURCH that TRULY BELIEVES the REAL OSAS DOCTRINE, and those Phonies, NEVER HAVE BEEN.

1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.

Don't you realize that JESUS talks to both the non-Born Again Follower, and the TRULY BORN AGAIN BELIEVER ? WHY? HE WANTS THEM TO CHOOSE HIM, for the RIGHT MOTIVE.

Romans 5:8-11 (HCSB)
8 But God proves His own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us!
9 Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath.
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!
11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ. We have now received this reconciliation through Him.{Don't you GET IT, SALVATION is totally through Him, never has it been through us.}

You see, you landed on a THREAD that has a LOT of the REAL OSAS Genuine BELIEVERS, and most of us here are QUITE CAPABLE OF DEFENDING OUR BELIEFS WITH Multiple VERSES OF SCRIPTURE.

I appreciate your well thought out post here. The zeal and passion you have is admirable. It truly saddens me that I cannot agree with you; as much as in me is I try to live peaceably with all men. But, like you, I have a zeal to defend the truth. Jesus said I came not to bring peace, but division (Luke 12:51). Believers truly are divided; there a multitude of denominations out there.

What provoked me to post what I posted was this statement:

A believer is still a sinner, yet is not a sinner in God’s eyes because God no longer sees the believer as a sinner. He gets labeled as “righteous” though he be not righteous. This is not just at the point of belief, but continues through out the believers lifetime on earth.

Is this the belief of genuine OSAS?

Entering the Wide Gate leads to destruction, not to exiting the gate. It leads to destruction because they remain inside the confines of the Wide Gates’ entrance. When the gate keeper arrives, then their destruction comes. Those found in the area where the Narrow Gate lead will be eternally secure.

Those who eventually fall away and leave the belief exit the Gate regardless of which Gate they entered, the Wide or Narrow.

The works of non-believers is filthy rags, not the works of the believer. The works of the believers is his reasonable service.

You say Salvation is not through us. This scripture says otherwise:

And you, that at one time were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now has he reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and reproveable I his sight: if you continue in the faith grounded and settled and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel (Colossians 1:21-23).

Salvation is maintained by me because I have to continue in the faith grounded and settled and not be moved away from it.

I believe many have been turned over to their lusts for not following righteousness and tampering with the word of God and have succumbed to doctrine of devils. Many of these run the Bible colleges and the church organizations that belong to them. And no marvel, for Satan himself is transformed as an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works.

If it’s true that sinners are labeled as “righteous” regardless if they are righteous or not; how would it be possible to identify Satans angels who label themselves as “righteous” as well? To say nothing of the deceitful workers who transform themselves as the apostles of Christ.

 

[EleventhHour]

Can you prove your claim?

You just said eleventh and others have CLAIMED saving faith is a work.

I believe you are lying and manipulating anothers position to suit your argument, as per usual.

Agree.....Same ole same ole

 

[OneOfHis]

Prove to me 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 doesn't mean a saved person.
I showed you from context that it does.
I can't in good conscience deny the plain description of the sanctified person given in Hebrews 10.

Well you lie regularly about others, you also refused to admit your previous account name on CC, your conscience has long since lost any weight.🤦‍♂️


I posted a breakdown, you ignored it.

God's children, are not His enemies..

We are not of them who fall back into perdition but of them that believe unto salvation.


You are trying to build whole doctrines on single words when the fullness of scripture shows again and again.

God divides the goats and sheep (who are already goats and already sheep.)


Those who go out from us WERE NOT OF US or they SURELY would have continued with us.

"proving" this to you isnt my goal despite your command...

I just share the truth.


if you can prove eleventh and others claimed a saving faith is work


I would be surprised since ive never seen you back up one of your accusations

 

[Lightskin]

Believing in Christ is not putting the emphasis on myself for salvation.
Neither is continuing in that very same believing.

"to the one who does not work, but believes" - Romans 4:5

Believing is the very opposite of working to be saved, but I'm being told believing is working to be saved.

With a peaceful heart I tell you that if you believe you can lose your salvation by an action of your own doing then you are placing the emphasis of your salvation upon yourself.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Are you condemning all OSAS believers? When pressed by OSAS believers, it usually doesn't take long before those in the NOSAS camp resort to wrongly judging and even condemning OSAS believers, as demonstrated below.

lightbearer said: OSAS is a doctrine of satan. And all who follow and teach it are of Satan and His legion.

Do you prefer a much harder path to God? Is that what bothers you? Salvation by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) sounds too easy? It also sounds like you are flirting with type 2 works salvation. It's no wonder my red flag remains up when dealing with those in the NOSAS camp.

its funny

Most world religions teach NOSAS. If we look at those who believe in eternal secruity (what some call OSAS) we find in comparison. They are few and far between.

So which is the wide gate?

 

[Lightskin]

For these reasons:

"They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away." - Luke 8:13

"When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away." - Matthew 13:21, Mark 4:17

And you believe God would shun someone who endured such overwhelming despair that they lost faith in Him? Remember, God is love, and love dictates that we embrace such people. Shunning people who are hurt goes against the very essence of God and the Gospel.

 

[VCO]

It seems to me this is a lot of what the disconnect in this thread is. At what point is faith saving faith? What separates saving faith from faith that does not save?

Here is the DEFINITIVE ANSWER from Scripture:


Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him [Long before you can do your first work, so Obedience is Part of your Agape Love, that you do after you are SAVED.], you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.

Ephesians 4:30 (NKJV)
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God,
by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
{There is A major OSAS VERSE, among many others!}

Romans 11:29 (HCSB)
29 since God’s gracious gifts and calling are irrevocable.
{That includes GOD's gracious of SALVATION, among many others!}

{When did that actually happen?}

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.


You will find that many would rather believe the LIE, than the TRUTH of SCRIPTURE.
There are your 3 witnesses of Scripture, and one to grow your human spirit on.

 

[Lightskin]

Faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE saves (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) which is not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that merely claims to be genuine, but demonstrates by the lack of works that it's dead. (James 2:14-26)

An empty profession of faith comes from an empty heart that actually has no faith. It’s like politicians claiming abortion is a decision between a woman and her god. They say the word god but don’t believe in God.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Do you prefer a much harder path to God? Is that what bothers you?

My preference has no bearing on my views.

The word of God tells us to enter in through the harder path. For they that have suffered in the flesh have ceased from sin (1 Peter 4:1).

The scripture says to enter through the narrow gate, not the wide gate. What bothers me is that many teach in a way that leads through the wide gate. A wider gate is easier to go through, is it not?

If the scripture says that they that are born of God do not commit sin, why do so many change the verse to an easier meaning of “practicing sin”?

Because it’s an hard saying, and who can hear it (John 6:60). So rather than stop following the Lord, they just find a way to see the verse in a different way as to not have to enter the narrow gate.

Speaking in general terms.

 

[Lightskin]

I living faith saves. A living faith incudes works in demonstration of that faith. Faith without works is dead.

So you need to perform works to be saved?

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

So you need to perform works to be saved?

We perform works because we are saved. We are not to be houses built on sand. We hear the Word of God and by His grace put it in to practice.

 

[mailmandan]

My preference has no bearing on my views.

The word of God tells us to enter in through the harder path. For they that have suffered in the flesh have ceased from sin (1 Peter 4:1).

Are you suggesting that the narrow path is sinless perfection? Have you arrived?

The scripture says to enter through the narrow gate, not the wide gate. What bothers me is that many teach in a way that leads through the wide gate. A wider gate is easier to go through, is it not?

The narrow gate is faith in Jesus Christ. (John 10:9; Ephesians 2:8,9) Out of all the religions in the world, how many of them teach we are saved through faith in Jesus Christ alone and not by works? Only Christianity teaches this. That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works is not hard to understand, but because of human pride, is hard to ACCEPT.

Now living the Christian life is not always going to be easy and Christians can and do suffer for the sake of Christ AFTER we have been saved through faith. Jesus said in this world we will have tribulation, yet for those who want to go their own way and be their own master, sin all they want, remain in a false religion or cult and trust in their works for salvation etc.. will reject salvation through faith in Christ alone, the narrow gate.

If the scripture says that they that are born of God do not commit sin, why do so many change the verse to an easier meaning of “practicing sin”?

It sounds like you do subscribe to sinless perfection. The NASB says "practice" sin in 1 John 3:9. Only Jesus Christ lived a sinless life 100% of the time. Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus did) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

Because it’s an hard saying, and who can hear it (John 6:60). So rather than stop following the Lord, they just find a way to see the verse in a different way as to not have to enter the narrow gate.

Were they truly following the Lord or did they just initially set out to follow the Lord on their terms and not His? If Jesus is truly their Lord, then they would believe Him and not become offended by His words in John 6 then turn and walk with Him no more.

Jesus gets to the heart of the issue in John 6:64 - But there are some of you who do not believe. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. In John 8:31, we read - .."If you continue in My word, (demonstrative evidence) then you are truly disciples of Mine." Those who turned back and walked with Him no more demonstrated that they were not TRULY His disciples.

 

[EleventhHour]

My preference has no bearing on my views.

The word of God tells us to enter in through the harder path. For they that have suffered in the flesh have ceased from sin (1 Peter 4:1).

The scripture says to enter through the narrow gate, not the wide gate. What bothers me is that many teach in a way that leads through the wide gate. A wider gate is easier to go through, is it not?

If the scripture says that they that are born of God do not commit sin, why do so many change the verse to an easier meaning of “practicing sin”?

Because it’s an hard saying, and who can hear it (John 6:60). So rather than stop following the Lord, they just find a way to see the verse in a different way as to not have to enter the narrow gate.

Speaking in general terms.

Jesus is the narrow gate.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My preference has no bearing on my views.

The word of God tells us to enter in through the harder path. For they that have suffered in the flesh have ceased from sin (1 Peter 4:1).

The scripture says to enter through the narrow gate, not the wide gate. What bothers me is that many teach in a way that leads through the wide gate. A wider gate is easier to go through, is it not?

If the scripture says that they that are born of God do not commit sin, why do so many change the verse to an easier meaning of “practicing sin”?

Because it’s an hard saying, and who can hear it (John 6:60). So rather than stop following the Lord, they just find a way to see the verse in a different way as to not have to enter the narrow gate.

Speaking in general terms.

You don't get it

The HARDER path for mankind is Grace

Because a man has to completely humble himself. And this goes against human nature

once again, The prominent religious system on earth is NOSAS.. Your taking the easier path. Because it is a path where you can see.. faith is the substance of things not seen.. Thats why it is so hard

 

[Lightskin]

We perform works because we are saved. We are not to be houses built on sand. We hear the Word of God and by His grace put it in to practice.

So you acknowledge works are not needed for salvation or to maintain salvation?

 

[EleventhHour]

So you acknowledge works are not needed for salvation or to maintain salvation?

This will be interesting ...

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus did) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

He that says he abides in him ought himself so to walk, even as he walked (1 John 2:6).

Was Jesus self righteous? If you do righteous works, do you become “self righteous”?

What should I strive for? Self wickedness?

Why the seeming contempt against those who desire to perform righteous woks?

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Are you suggesting that the narrow path is sinless perfection? Have you arrived?

I will not have arrived until I have endured following after it. Suffering the loss of all things for it.

Since you believe it cannot be obtained, you will never have it nor allow others to seek after it.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

The narrow gate is faith in Jesus Christ

No it is not.

The gospel is faith in Jesus Christ.

The narrow gate is HOW you walk in that faith.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

The NASB says "practice" sin in 1 John 3:9.

I’m not a KJV-only thumper, but this is precisely why I prefer the KJV. It doesn’t weaken vital doctrines to walk perfect in the faith.