Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
M

Micaiah-imla

Banned
#136,822
Feb 29, 2020
1,563
571
113
#136,822
mailmandan said:
You seem to be hung up on the word "if" as if it casts doubt on whether or not genuine believers will continue in the faith, but that is not what Paul is expressing here. The word "if" here is not ean, an unfulfilled, hypothetical condition used with the subjunctive mode, presenting the possibility of a future realization, but ei with the indicative, having here the idea of "assuming that you continue in the faith." Continuing in the faith would show that the person's faith is firmly rooted and established in the hope of the gospel and they really have been reconciled.

The form of this phrase in Greek (using the particle ei and the indicative mood of the verb epimenō) indicates that Paul fully expects that the Colossian believers will continue in the faith; no doubt is expressed here by Paul, yet what about "nominal" Christians whose shallow, temporary faith withers away? While discussing the preeminence of Christ in context, it's only natural that Paul would speak this way because he is addressing groups of people who "profess" to be Christians, without being able to infallibly know the actual state of every person's heart. How can Paul avoid giving them false assurance of salvation here when in fact they may not be saved because of a spurious faith that does not continue?

Paul knows that faith which is firmly grounded and established in the gospel from the start will continue. Those who continue in the faith demonstrate that they "have been" reconciled and are genuine believers, but those who do not continue show that their shallow, temporary faith was never firmly rooted and established in the gospel to begin with and such people believed in vain. (1 Corinthians 15:1-2)
Click to expand...
A person who is unreasonable and illogical cannot be reasoned with. What a powerful bewitching effect OSAS has on people. Perhaps you have been turned over to a reprobate mind. It is the only thing that can explain how a plain verse can have no effect on a person.

You are hung up on OSAS.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#136,823
#136,823
Micaiah-imla said:
A person who is unreasonable and illogical cannot be reasoned with. What a powerful bewitching effect OSAS has on people. Perhaps you have been turned over to a reprobate mind. It is the only thing that can explain how a plain verse can have no effect on a person.

You are hung up on OSAS.
Click to expand...
Be careful what you state.....because actually you are the one who is wrong

Pauls purpose is to express his confidence in their security in Christ, and his command to present every believer as sanctified in Christ (vv.28-29).

Colossians 1:21-23
21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.


Paul is teaching about the "worthy walk" not about how to keep salvation to the Colossians,
Chapter 1 v. 10

"That ye might walk worthy of the Lord"

We do not walk worthy for salvation, salvation is a gift, it is NOT based on our worthiness

Out of context scripture ------ again a fail!!

What it does teach is that abiding in the faith is required for one to have a good report when we appear before Christ
"present you holy and unblameable"
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#136,824
Apr 7, 2014
25,475
13,419
113
58
#136,824
Micaiah-imla said:
A person who is unreasonable and illogical cannot be reasoned with. What a powerful bewitching effect OSAS has on people. Perhaps you have been turned over to a reprobate mind. It is the only thing that can explain how a plain verse can have no effect on a person.

You are hung up on OSAS.
Click to expand...
You call that reasonable and logical? What kind of a rebuttal is that? Now you are accusing me of having been turned over to a reprobate mind? You are basically condemning me for being OSAS. Your obsession with attackbig OSAS has reached the point of obsession and border line madness. :eek:
 
R

Ruby123

Guest
#136,827
#136,827
eternally-gratefull said:
Fran is another ralph. Her and Ralph and a few of her buddies ganged up on people. She was banned awhile ago. WHo knows her ban may even be up.
Click to expand...
It is someone who thinks you guys are bullies, who cannot or will not let it go and who is messin with your minds.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#136,832
#136,832
mailmandan said:
You call that reasonable and logical? What kind of a rebuttal is that? Now you are accusing me of having been turned over to a reprobate mind? You are basically condemning me for being OSAS. Your obsession with attackbig OSAS has reached the point of obsession and border line madness. :eek:
Click to expand...
If someone thinks they are making themselves "sinless" or is sinless of course anyone who states otherwise is a threat... hence the condemnation.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#136,833
#136,833
mailmandan said:
Nowhere does it specifically say the Galatians 'stopped trusting' in Christ or they "lost their salvation" so the word 'unjustified' still does not exist (except in your imagination) and you will not find that specific word in the Bible. Now the present tense of the word "justified" implies that these Galatians were contemplating justification by the law. They were getting side tracked by legalistic teachers. "You who are trying to be justified by the law have fallen away from grace," but had they fully come to that place yet? Galatians 3:3 reads: Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? The middle voice implies "making yourselves perfect" by means of self effort. The present tense indicates that the action is in progress and that there is still time to correct the error.

Paul did not say that these Galatians 'lost their salvation' and it was all over for them. Instead, in verse 10, he said - I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is. So the Bible does not teach that those who are 'justified' will become 'unjustified.' Instead, in Romans 8:30, we read - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them.*

The Bible means what it says when you properly interpret verses in CONTEXT. Too often, those in the NOSAS camp will isolate a pet verse, build doctrine on it, then ignore the CONTEXT and fail to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching their conclusion on doctrine. That's what finally got me off the fence about NOSAS soon after my conversion after leaving the Roman Catholic church several years ago. Plus, I have discovered that ALL false religions and cults (including Catholicism, Mormonism and Campbellism etc..) that teach salvation by works strongly oppose OSAS, which remains a red flag for me.

Feel free to move on then. OSAS believers in this thread have listened to your same arguments over and over again and we do not agree with you. Your relentless attacks against OSAS have reached the point to where you just sound like an annoying woodpecker.

Click to expand...

Same argument over and over... with no substance... his narrative always brought that picture to my mind of

trying to nail jello to a wall!!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#136,834
#136,834
Micaiah-imla said:
Colossians 1:21,23
[21] And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

But then there’s the “if” part:

[23] If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel

So, tell me, Mr. “Greek tense” expert. What is the “context” here?

Try to be reasonable and logical.
Click to expand...
why would you be moved from the hope in the gospel.

Unless your belief was not faith to begin with.

Many people believe, But not everyone has true saving faith
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#136,835
#136,835
gb9 said:
ah, fran, fran, fran.

the last time you got banned, you were in the process of getting proved totally wrong by me.

want to pick that back up again??
Click to expand...
How do we know its fran? just asking
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#136,836
#136,836
gb9 said:
ah, fran, fran, fran.

the last time you got banned, you were in the process of getting proved totally wrong by me.

want to pick that back up again??
Click to expand...
Many proved her wrong she just could not accept it.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#136,837
#136,837
tantalon said:
If you find error in what the Bible, ( not me) is saying, then take your plea to God, for understanding. Not one of you have addressed the scripture verses for personal comment, but are using language and reasoning of personal beliefs.
Click to expand...
Which scriptures have not been addressed?
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#136,838
Jan 18, 2011
12,315
6,688
113
#136,838
C313brat3 said:
Hi all!
Let me put your mind @ rest ,yes I'm back so quit your speculating!😂😂😂😂

I believe I have the right to post freely @ my descretion and use emojicons at will!
I just have to maintain my cool,ignore your false propoganda and carry on with my life in Christ!
I also DO NOT HAVE TO RESPOND to your idiosyncratic remarks!


Toodles.
Click to expand...

here you go e.g. brought this down for ya!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.