THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
S

Sudakar

Banned
#361
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#361
Sackcloth-N-Ashes said:
I have a Greek DVD series called “Greek For The Rest of Us”, and the instructor is Dr. William Mounce. He was on the ESV translating committee and is now with the NIV. He covered metanoia, and said it’s not just merely changing your mind, but a changing of your mind that brings action. In other words, repentance is not just changing your mind, but also your actions. He used the Pharisees as an example. He said it would be like the Pharisees telling John the Baptist they are changing their minds, but still living in greed. He said John would not have been happy.

So, metanoia is more than just a mere change of mind, but mind and actions...i.e. repenting of sins, too.
Click to expand...
In order to be saved, you have changed your mind by lowering the bar of what lordship requires in mathew 5:48 to suit your degree of sinfulness. Your concept of lordship is "diluted" & subjective and not according to mathew 5:48!!
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#362
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#362
azamzimtoti said:
I'm pretty sure a change of mind would include a change of actions.
Click to expand...
In order to be saved, you have changed your mind by lowering the bar of what lordship requires in mathew 5:48 to suit your degree of sinfulness. Your concept of lordship is "diluted" & subjective and not according to mathew 5:48!!
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#363
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#363
Nehemiah6 said:
You still don't get it!!
Click to expand...
In order to be saved, you have changed your mind by lowering the bar of what lordship requires in mathew 5:48 to suit your degree of sinfulness. Your concept of lordship is "diluted" & subjective and not according to mathew 5:48!!
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#364
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#364
preacher4truth said:
No person believing the biblical doctrine of so-called LS believes “Salvation…comes from a life lived in obedience…”

That and nowhere on page 93 did MacArthur make your above “quote.” See for yourselves:

https://books.google.com/books?id=NcLwhTDBICgC&pg=PP3&source=kp_read_button

Looks like your boy Thomas M. Cucuzza did a little embellishing and conflating of MacArthur's words, which is slander. His statement in his book “Secure Forever” is not what MacArthur said in his opening statement of chapter 6:


https://books.google.com/books?id=Q...ed in obedience and service to Christ&f=false

I just wanted everyone to see the embellished lie on MacArthur and be reminded not to believe anything and everything a person quotes. MacArthur has been both misrepresented and slandered. Our friend posting this has been mislead about LS as I stated all along. Be wise; Proverbs 14:15.

Now @Sudakar has the opportunity to accept or reject refutation and correction.:)
Click to expand...
MacArthur states:

"Submission to the will of God, to Christ’s lordship, and to the guiding of the Spirit is an essential, not an optional, part of saving faith" (EPHESIANS, p. 249).
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#365
#365
Sudakar said:
So you do works according to Mathew 5:48 in order to prove your faith isn't dead?
Click to expand...
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Show me where this is a "work" and not just you twisting a verse out of context. And if you're going to tell me you're perfect, I'm gonna say that's a lie.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#367
#367
Sudakar said:
There are innumerable non christian organisations doing works of charity for several millions of dollars.
Click to expand...
What's that have to do with the price of tea in China? We as Christians are told to do good works. Why are making something out of nothing?
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#368
May 23, 2016
4,314
1,442
113
#368
Sudakar said:
Lordship Salvationists are sinful according to the Lord's command in mathew 5:48 & yet accuse christians who commit sin as "unsaved"!!!
Click to expand...
Well, whatever "Lordship salvationists" you are talking about -- ?? I haven't met anyone like this . . . ? Not the way you describe them . . .
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#370
#370
Guojing said:
The gospel of the kingdom was accompanied by signs and wonders. Jesus healed all the Jews who came to him (Acts 10:38).

Now, if I know that Jesus could heal me, and I am in danger of allowing a sin that is caused by one of my body parts to disqualify me from the promised kingdom, is it really that difficult a choice to maim myself so that I can still get into the kingdom by the skin of my teeth?
Click to expand...
Say what now?
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#371
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#371
kaylagrl said:
Say what now?
Click to expand...
Didn't Jesus made it clear himself?

Mark 9:47 it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#372
#372
Guojing said:
Didn't Jesus made it clear himself?

Mark 9:47 it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Click to expand...

No,no I know the verse, I just don't get what you're trying to say.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#373
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#373
kaylagrl said:
No,no I know the verse, I just don't get what you're trying to say.
Click to expand...
Is that choice that difficult to make here for a Jew?

Keep all body parts, continue to commit a certain sin with one body part, and get cast into hell eternally because of that sin?

versus

Lose one part, qualify to enter the promised kingdom when I end my life on earth, and have Jesus restore that body part in that promised kingdom?

But praise be to God that Jesus was not speaking to us gentiles. We are not under that gospel of the kingdom.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#374
#374
Sudakar said:
MacArthur states:

"Submission to the will of God, to Christ’s lordship, and to the guiding of the Spirit is an essential, not an optional, part of saving faith" (EPHESIANS, p. 249).
Click to expand...
I wish I had kept his books I would like to fact check this... however, I found with MacArthur when I was still reading him he often made contradictory statements in different books which often baffled me.
And if he made this statement in or out of context it would be wrong.
The Gospel is not "quid pro quo" on any level.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#375
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
#375
Guojing said:
Didn't Jesus made it clear himself?

Mark 9:47 it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Click to expand...
Yes. Theres no reason not to take this verse literally. It says what it means, and means what it says.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#376
#376
Chester said:
Well, whatever "Lordship salvationists" you are talking about -- ?? I haven't met anyone like this . . . ? Not the way you describe them . . .
Click to expand...
I just read up on it. It's all based on some article. Basically when you first become saved and you're a new baby Christian learning to mature in your faith, according to him and Mc Arthur, you're not really saved, you just think you are. You didn't make Him Lord of your life, apparently. Seems a new baby Christian is suppose to be as fully matured and yielded to His will as someone who has been on the road 50 yrs. Seems the sign of this is you're a perfectly sinless Christian. Otherwise you were never saved and aren't saved now. Got that? Soooo none of us are saved, including him because he isn't sinless and neither are we. Clear as mud? Let's see how he twists this one in the wind. Apparently what the Bible says isn't right and we're all lost.
 
S

Sudakar

Banned
#377
Sep 14, 2019
1,336
50
48
#377
Guojing said:
So what he said was clear, "Faith without works is dead".
Click to expand...
The faith of lordship Salvationists is false faith because it is faith+works rather than "faith alone" in Christ's atonement. So their works which follow their false faith is also false!!
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#378
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#378
Sudakar said:
The faith of lordship Salvationists is false faith because it is faith+works rather than "faith alone" in Christ's atonement. So their works which follow their false faith is also false!!
Click to expand...
Yes, they take that doctrine mostly from what Jesus was preaching in the 4 gospels, but we are under the gospel Jesus preached according to the mystery, that he revealed to Paul after Jesus ascended.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#379
#379
Guojing said:
Is that choice that difficult to make here for a Jew?

Keep all body parts, continue to commit a certain sin with one body part, and get cast into hell eternally because of that sin?

versus

Lose one part, qualify to enter the promised kingdom when I end my life on earth, and have Jesus restore that body part in that promised kingdom?

But praise be to God that Jesus was not speaking to us gentiles. We are not under that gospel of the kingdom.
Click to expand...

Ok so we threw out the OT because that was for the Jews, now we throw out the NT cause that was to the Jews. What was for the Gentiles, the maps?! smh

The verse is saying whatever causes you to sin, get rid of it. It's not saying get a meat cleaver and hack yourself to death, you know that right?! Otherwise we'd be like the old Catholics and flagellate ourselves when we sin.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#380
#380
Sudakar said:
The faith of lordship Salvationists is false faith because it is faith+works rather than "faith alone" in Christ's atonement. So their works which follow their false faith is also false!!
Click to expand...


Yea, a man may say, “Thou hast faith, and I have works.” Show me thy faith apart from thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.

Hand in glove. Works don't save, but a Christian will have works to show. That's what the Bible says. I don't give two dimes what Mc Arthur said, whoever he is.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.