The Purpose of Speaking in Tongues

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KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
721
113
#1
Some say that "speaking in tongues" did exist at one time (because it's written in the bible) but is not for today. ( ... ) But OK, let's give them the benefit of the doubt on that one.

Let's NOT argue whether or not speaking in tongues is for today. We can limit the discussion to the benefits of speaking in tongues DURING the times that the bible DOES allow speaking in tongues, since this is a Bible Discussion Forum and speaking in tongues was given by God to at least some according to the word of God, in the bible.

In other words, since the bible says that speaking in tongues was a gift of the Holy Ghost in the bible)...WHY was it given? WHAT does the bible say it accomplishes (while it is in operation)?

And to be clear about this...whether or not tongues ceased (or will cease) HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ITS PURPOSE DURING THE TIME OF ITS EXISTENCE. So please pay attention to when people are trying to get off topic. We're only looking at what "speaking in tongues" does accomplish, while it is functioning, as described in the BIBLE. What are the benefits? And let's be patient and thorough about it. :)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#2
Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

The bible gives you the simple answer albeit not the one you want.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,855
4,507
113
#3
Some say that "speaking in tongues" did exist at one time (because it's written in the bible) but is not for today. ( ... ) But OK, let's give them the benefit of the doubt on that one.

Let's NOT argue whether or not speaking in tongues is for today. We can limit the discussion to the benefits of speaking in tongues DURING the times that the bible DOES allow speaking in tongues, since this is a Bible Discussion Forum and speaking in tongues was given by God to at least some according to the word of God, in the bible.

In other words, since the bible says that speaking in tongues was a gift of the Holy Ghost in the bible)...WHY was it given? WHAT does the bible say it accomplishes (while it is in operation)?

And to be clear about this...whether or not tongues ceased (or will cease) HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ITS PURPOSE DURING THE TIME OF ITS EXISTENCE. So please pay attention to when people are trying to get off topic. We're only looking at what "speaking in tongues" does accomplish, while it is functioning, as described in the BIBLE. What are the benefits? And let's be patient and thorough about it. :)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Scripture will be the best for describing what speaking in tongues was for.

1 Corinthians 14:1-28 New International Version (NIV)

14 Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. 2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. 3 But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. 4 Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.

6 Now, brothers and sisters, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? 7 Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the pipe or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? 8 Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10 Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11 If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me. 12 So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church.

13 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding. 16 Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer, say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying? 17 You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.

18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.

20 Brothers and sisters, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults. 21 In the Law it is written:

“With other tongues
and through the lips of foreigners
I will speak to this people,
but even then they will not listen to me,
says the Lord.”
22 Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers. 23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24 But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, 25 as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!”

26 What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
721
113
#5
Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

The bible gives you the simple answer albeit not the one you want.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
I'm not sure why you'd think that scripture was an answer I wouldn't want. It appears that one of the benefits is that speaking in tongues is an evidence that a person has received the Holy Ghost. "The spirit itself bearing witness" is how it's said in another place.

That's a good thing.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#6
I'm not sure why you'd think that scripture was an answer I wouldn't want. It appears that one of the benefits is that speaking in tongues is an evidence that a person has received the Holy Ghost. "The spirit itself bearing witness" is how it's said in another place.

That's a good thing.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Simply because the purpose is Acts is nothing like the purpose claimed in the modern church. In Acts tongues are for those of the circumcision verse 45 to witness the same Holy Spirit filling the Gentiles as filled them. See verses 46 and 47.

The Spirit witnessing with our spirit is not speaking in tongues. It is a witness that we are the saved of God. Romans 8:16

Peter restates the events of Acts 10 in Acts 11 before them of the circumcision in Jerusalem. Peter is vindicating his ministry to the Gentiles.

The biblical purpose of tongues is not remotely related to what we see in the modern church of today.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
721
113
#7
Scripture will be the best for describing what speaking in tongues was for.

1 Corinthians 14:1-28 New International Version (NIV)

14 Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. 2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. 3 But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. 4 Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.

6 Now, brothers and sisters, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? 7 Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the pipe or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? 8 Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10 Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11 If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me. 12 So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church.

13 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding. 16 Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer, say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying? 17 You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.

18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.

20 Brothers and sisters, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults. 21 In the Law it is written:

“With other tongues
and through the lips of foreigners
I will speak to this people,
but even then they will not listen to me,
says the Lord.”
22 Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers. 23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24 But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, 25 as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!”

26 What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.
I agree that several of the benefits are explained in that chapter.

But because there's a veil over the understanding of many people when they read the scriptures, often there is a need for someone to "preach" (open, explain) those scriptures to them in regular speech before they can see what is actually being said. Romans 10:14,15&17 & the example of the eunuch that Phillip was sent to in Acts 8:30,31.

So I try to highlight just one aspect at a time, such as:

The first benefit I see mentioned in 1 Corinthians chapter 14 (in verse 2) is that speaking in tongues is speaking to God. <-- which indeed is a desirable benefit.

BTW, thank you for posting the chapter.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
721
113
#8
Simply because the purpose is Acts is nothing like the purpose claimed in the modern church. In Acts tongues are for those of the circumcision verse 45 to witness the same Holy Spirit filling the Gentiles as filled them. See verses 46 and 47.

The Spirit witnessing with our spirit is not speaking in tongues. It is a witness that we are the saved of God. Romans 8:16

Peter restates the events of Acts 10 in Acts 11 before them of the circumcision in Jerusalem. Peter is vindicating his ministry to the Gentiles.

The biblical purpose of tongues is not remotely related to what we see in the modern church of today.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Roger, to avoid controversy over whether or not speaking in tongues remains today, we are focusing on the benefits that were given to those to whom it was indeed poured out. :) I"m sure you'll recognize the benefits of that particular wording. :)

If you don't think it is available today, that's fine. The actual question of THIS thread is to see if you are able to so much as recognize, acknowledge and admit the benefits that speaking in tongues (not prophecy, not miracles, not preaching) provided at a time when you yourself admit it was available.

If those benefits were available back then but are no longer needed or beneficial now that we have "the bible", that contrast should surely show up...should't it?

You could call it "the opportunity to discuss the awesomeness of what was available in the times that the word of God is talking about". <--I think that has a nice ring to it.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,855
4,507
113
#9
I agree that several of the benefits are explained in that chapter.

But because there's a veil over the understanding of many people when they read the scriptures, often there is a need for someone to "preach" (open, explain) those scriptures to them in regular speech before they can see what is actually being said. Romans 10:14,15&17 & the example of the eunuch that Phillip was sent to in Acts 8:30,31.

So I try to highlight just one aspect at a time, such as:

The first benefit I see mentioned in 1 Corinthians chapter 14 (in verse 2) is that speaking in tongues is speaking to God. <-- which indeed is a desirable benefit.

BTW, thank you for posting the chapter.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

Yes indeed the gift was to speak to God in a mysterious language by the Spirit. No one understands them in less there is interpretation. Which to me also means the individual speaking will probably not be able to interpret. Another Scripture says if no one can interpret, then that individual should keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.

22 Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers. 23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

The speaker of tongues must be aware of their surrounding. As their gift is better used when around mature believers.

Paul stresses that the most important are the edifying of the church.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#10
Roger, to avoid controversy over whether or not speaking in tongues remains today, we are focusing on the benefits that were given to those to whom it was indeed poured out. :) I"m sure you'll recognize the benefits of that particular wording. :)

If you don't think it is available today, that's fine. The actual question of THIS thread is to see if you are able to so much as recognize, acknowledge and admit the benefits that speaking in tongues (not prophecy, not miracles, not preaching) provided at a time when you yourself admit it was available.

If those benefits were available back then but are no longer needed or beneficial now that we have "the bible", that contrast should surely show up...should't it?

You could call it "the opportunity to discuss the awesomeness of what was available in the times that the word of God is talking about". <--I think that has a nice ring to it.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
You are simply endeavoring to manufacture a means by which you can justify a behavior that is not biblically sound. You are prepared to go to great lengths to establish a condition in which you can feel justified to feel righteous.

You want what you want and you really do not care if it's biblically correct.

Until you or anyone else can show that what happened in the apostolic church with respect to tongues is what we have in the modern church today you are creating a false pretense to suit your own desires.

There is no virtue outside of what scripture teaches on the subject.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,855
4,507
113
#11
You are simply endeavoring to manufacture a means by which you can justify a behavior that is not biblically sound. You are prepared to go to great lengths to establish a condition in which you can feel justified to feel righteous.

You want what you want and you really do not care if it's biblically correct.

Until you or anyone else can show that what happened in the apostolic church with respect to tongues is what we have in the modern church today you are creating a false pretense to suit your own desires.

There is no virtue outside of what scripture teaches on the subject.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Regardless of his Kelby's beliefs, by the guidelines in place, this is a study of what tongues were and what it was for. Speaking in tongues is in the Bible. That makes it worthy of study.
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
721
113
#12
Regardless of his Kelby's beliefs, by the guidelines in place, this is a study of what tongues were and what it was for. Speaking in tongues is in the Bible. That makes it worthy of study.
Yup. :D
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#13
Some say that "speaking in tongues" did exist at one time (because it's written in the bible) but is not for today. ( ... ) But OK, let's give them the benefit of the doubt on that one.

Let's NOT argue whether or not speaking in tongues is for today. We can limit the discussion to the benefits of speaking in tongues DURING the times that the bible DOES allow speaking in tongues, since this is a Bible Discussion Forum and speaking in tongues was given by God to at least some according to the word of God, in the bible.

In other words, since the bible says that speaking in tongues was a gift of the Holy Ghost in the bible)...WHY was it given? WHAT does the bible say it accomplishes (while it is in operation)?

And to be clear about this...whether or not tongues ceased (or will cease) HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ITS PURPOSE DURING THE TIME OF ITS EXISTENCE. So please pay attention to when people are trying to get off topic. We're only looking at what "speaking in tongues" does accomplish, while it is functioning, as described in the BIBLE. What are the benefits? And let's be patient and thorough about it. :)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Paul was clear that tongues are a sign for the unbelievers. Do many Charismatic churches ever bear that teaching in mind?
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
721
113
#14
You are simply endeavoring to manufacture a means by which you can justify a behavior that is not biblically sound. You are prepared to go to great lengths to establish a condition in which you can feel justified to feel righteous.

You want what you want and you really do not care if it's biblically correct.

Until you or anyone else can show that what happened in the apostolic church with respect to tongues is what we have in the modern church today you are creating a false pretense to suit your own desires.

There is no virtue outside of what scripture teaches on the subject.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
So throw out what anyone says about tongues today and simply acknowledge what a wonderful benefit it was in the Bible.

That would be honoring the word of God.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
721
113
#15
Paul was clear that tongues are a sign for the unbelievers. Do many Charismatic churches ever bear that teaching in mind?
Thank you. That is another benefit of 'speaking in tongues' . Speaking in tongues provided an evidence that unbelievers could observe. (Because it certainly wasn't the unbelievers who'd received it)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,774
113
#16
In other words, since the bible says that speaking in tongues was a gift of the Holy Ghost in the bible)...WHY was it given? WHAT does the bible say it accomplishes (while it is in operation)?
REASON FOR TONGUES: A SIGN FOR UNBELIEVING JEWS TO EXPOSE UNBELIEF
In the Law [the Old Testament] it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. (1 Cor 14:21,22)

For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. (Isa 28:11-13)
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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#17
Thank you. That is another benefit of 'speaking in tongues' . It provided an evidence that unbelievers could observe. (because it certainly wasn't the unbelievers who'd received it)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
But that only happens when it was an actual foreign language that the Christian has not learned before, not the shabba shabba shabba that is passed off for tongues nowadays.

If its the latter, what is the unbeliever suppose to believe in?
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,855
4,507
113
#18
Thank you. That is another benefit of 'speaking in tongues' . Speaking in tongues provided an evidence that unbelievers could observe. (Because it certainly wasn't the unbelievers who'd received it)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
1 Corinthians 12:27-31 New International Version (NIV)
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31 Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.
And yet I will show you the most excellent way.

I believe this passage also shows that all will not have the gift. Just as all will not be an apostle, pastor, prophet, etc.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,855
4,507
113
#19
But that only happens when it was an actual foreign language that the Christian has not learned before, not the shabba shabba shabba that is passed off for tongues nowadays.

If its the latter, what is the unbeliever suppose to believe in?
1 cor 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

This doesn't sound like a human foreign language but scripture does have that as a possibility. I have heard evangelists to see both in foreign lands.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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#20
1 cor 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

This doesn't sound like a human foreign language but scripture does have that as a possibility. I have heard evangelists to see both in foreign lands.
We can address that later, but let me grant you that first.

What about the question "what is the unbeliever suppose to believe in" when he hears someone saying shabba shabba shabba?