Predeterminism and free will
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Nope. It doesn't say that in Galatians 4:9. So it's not exactly what it says, it's what YOU said, not what God said. 
9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
But now, after that ye are known of God...
A couple of examples of God offering His counsel. Why would God counsel man and why would God leave man to His own counsel if man's will were not free?
Psalm 107
Because they rebelled against the words of God, and contemned the counsel of the most High:
Luke 7-30
But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.
Psalm 107
Because they rebelled against the words of God, and contemned the counsel of the most High:
Luke 7-30
But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.
Oh please. It still doesn't say what you want it to say.
Try harder? Bold a few less words? Or more words? Strain out a few more words in your precious perfect every word is pure KJB, don't leave out words like modern versions (like you've just done) to try to prove yourself correct? See your own hypocrisy? Open theist?
Why not just stop this foolishness of yours and man up for once and admit, well, you're wrong, and, well, you based another heresy of yours on your erroneous take on Scripture that doesn't say what you want it to say. Start there.
Try harder? Bold a few less words? Or more words? Strain out a few more words in your precious perfect every word is pure KJB, don't leave out words like modern versions (like you've just done) to try to prove yourself correct? See your own hypocrisy? Open theist?
Why not just stop this foolishness of yours and man up for once and admit, well, you're wrong, and, well, you based another heresy of yours on your erroneous take on Scripture that doesn't say what you want it to say. Start there.
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While it is a very sensitive topic which requires maturity to be able to debate it is still one that needs to be understood so you have guts that is for sure
To be honest I have never found enough evidence for what I believe vs what the opposite can search up in the scriptures.
If you go to google you can easily find evidence for both sides free will vs predestination but here is my take on it.
We can find the evidence for our position but if we fail to take into consideration who God is and his pattern of doing things we can miss the mark.
God has all throughout the bible sent a warning before he does anything even in Noahs age he warned noah and Noah in turn warned the people, even though they didn't listen he still tried why is that?
Every time the Jews ran from God he always sent them a prophet to warn them to change their ways, even when Jesus came into the scene many would not accept his ways yet he still spoke to them and tried to teach them.
If in fact every person was born destined for heaven or hell then warning and trying to get them to change their ways is useless but God always did anyways. Not to mention the most obvious factor in that he is love and is the father. If you were a parent would you have children and decide which one was going to heaven or hell no matter what they chose in their decisions? Would you take the time to create them raise them and try to teach them if you already decided they were going to a final destination?
In my opinion the names in the book were never set in stone they names were added when one chose to accept him. Remember that salvation is called a gift and is never forced on us there is a good reason for that.
To be honest I have never found enough evidence for what I believe vs what the opposite can search up in the scriptures.
If you go to google you can easily find evidence for both sides free will vs predestination but here is my take on it.
We can find the evidence for our position but if we fail to take into consideration who God is and his pattern of doing things we can miss the mark.
God has all throughout the bible sent a warning before he does anything even in Noahs age he warned noah and Noah in turn warned the people, even though they didn't listen he still tried why is that?
Every time the Jews ran from God he always sent them a prophet to warn them to change their ways, even when Jesus came into the scene many would not accept his ways yet he still spoke to them and tried to teach them.
If in fact every person was born destined for heaven or hell then warning and trying to get them to change their ways is useless but God always did anyways. Not to mention the most obvious factor in that he is love and is the father. If you were a parent would you have children and decide which one was going to heaven or hell no matter what they chose in their decisions? Would you take the time to create them raise them and try to teach them if you already decided they were going to a final destination?
In my opinion the names in the book were never set in stone they names were added when one chose to accept him. Remember that salvation is called a gift and is never forced on us there is a good reason for that.
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“I permitted Myself to be sought by those who did not ask for Me; I permitted Myself to be found by those who did not seek Me. I said, ‘Here am I, here am I,’ To a nation which did not call on My name.[Isaiah 65:1]
You keep harping about a choice, a choice, my kingdom for a choice.
Riddle me this.
1) How could these ppl choose God who did not ask for Him?
2) How could these ppl choose God who did not seek Him?
3) How could these ppl choose God who did not call on His name?
You keep harping about a choice, a choice, my kingdom for a choice.
Riddle me this.
1) How could these ppl choose God who did not ask for Him?
2) How could these ppl choose God who did not seek Him?
3) How could these ppl choose God who did not call on His name?
While it is a very sensitive topic which requires maturity to be able to debate it is still one that needs to be understood so you have guts that is for sure
To be honest I have never found enough evidence for what I believe vs what the opposite can search up in the scriptures.
If you go to google you can easily find evidence for both sides free will vs predestination but here is my take on it.
We can find the evidence for our position but if we fail to take into consideration who God is and his pattern of doing things we can miss the mark.
God has all throughout the bible sent a warning before he does anything even in Noahs age he warned noah and Noah in turn warned the people, even though they didn't listen he still tried why is that?
Every time the Jews ran from God he always sent them a prophet to warn them to change their ways, even when Jesus came into the scene many would not accept his ways yet he still spoke to them and tried to teach them.
If in fact every person was born destined for heaven or hell then warning and trying to get them to change their ways is useless but God always did anyways. Not to mention the most obvious factor in that he is love and is the father. If you were a parent would you have children and decide which one was going to heaven or hell no matter what they chose in their decisions? Would you take the time to create them raise them and try to teach them if you already decided they were going to a final destination?
In my opinion the names in the book were never set in stone they names were added when one chose to accept him. Remember that salvation is called a gift and is never forced on us there is a good reason for that.
To be honest I have never found enough evidence for what I believe vs what the opposite can search up in the scriptures.
If you go to google you can easily find evidence for both sides free will vs predestination but here is my take on it.
We can find the evidence for our position but if we fail to take into consideration who God is and his pattern of doing things we can miss the mark.
God has all throughout the bible sent a warning before he does anything even in Noahs age he warned noah and Noah in turn warned the people, even though they didn't listen he still tried why is that?
Every time the Jews ran from God he always sent them a prophet to warn them to change their ways, even when Jesus came into the scene many would not accept his ways yet he still spoke to them and tried to teach them.
If in fact every person was born destined for heaven or hell then warning and trying to get them to change their ways is useless but God always did anyways. Not to mention the most obvious factor in that he is love and is the father. If you were a parent would you have children and decide which one was going to heaven or hell no matter what they chose in their decisions? Would you take the time to create them raise them and try to teach them if you already decided they were going to a final destination?
In my opinion the names in the book were never set in stone they names were added when one chose to accept him. Remember that salvation is called a gift and is never forced on us there is a good reason for that.
I genuinely don't know what to believe when it comes to predeterminism and free will.
You asked whether, if I were a parent, would I decide on my Child's final destination without knowing the choices they will make.
Of course not.
But I'm not God, and this I'm not omniscient.
Surely God's omniscience implies that he knows the choices each of us will make in advance?
I believe that this is the basis for predestination.
Any thoughts that might help me muddle my way through this?
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First, he’s an open theist, a forbidden heresy on this site. Secondly, lots of his errors stem from the fact he cannot think critically or logically well enough so everything is either black or white.
The troubling thing is when he comes to his asinine conclusions he spreads his peacock feathers and says to others “I just happen to believe my Bible” as if others do not. Only God can wake him up, but according to him God probably doesn’t even know it’s going on.
The troubling thing is when he comes to his asinine conclusions he spreads his peacock feathers and says to others “I just happen to believe my Bible” as if others do not. Only God can wake him up, but according to him God probably doesn’t even know it’s going on.
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