Not By Works

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posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#138,041
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
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#138,041
​
it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven!​
(Matthew 19:23)​
​
how hard it is for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God!​
(Mark 10:23)​
​

am i supposed to read this and conclude there are two gospels, two kingdoms, two ways to heaven, that omniscient God who alone appoints the times and seasons sent His Son to establish one but whoops turns out it wasn't a good time ((God must have been so surprised!?)) so He established the other instead?

or should i conclude these terms are interchangeable?
 
OneOfHis

OneOfHis

Well-known member
#138,044
Mar 24, 2019
1,430
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#138,044
There is being justified by Christ's imputed righteousness by grace through faith...

And there is us being able to justify our CLAIM to faith... which is only evidence and never proof....

God needs no proof... james never suggested He did....


Guojing said:
So you didn't really mean what you said there? But that was also what James 2:14 literally said right?

I believe both are inspired, yes.
Click to expand...

I agree both are inspired, I also agree both teach the same gospel.

You seem to disagree despite your claim.

Yes I mean what I said and I was clear in my original post. You just skipped main points and asked a question (the same question multiple times) I answered in my first post...
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#138,045
Jan 12, 2019
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#138,045
OneOfHis said:
There is being justified by Christ's imputed righteousness by grace through faith...

And there is us being able to justify our CLAIM to faith... which is only evidence and never proof....

God needs no proof... james never suggested He did....





I agree both are inspired, I also agree both teach the same gospel.

You seem to disagree despite your claim.

Yes I mean what I said and I was clear in my original post. You just skipped main points and asked a question I answered in the same post...
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Why do you think James believed that one can be "justified by Christ's imputed righteousness by grace through faith" apart from works?

Did you get that from reading what James said in his letter? Or was it an assumption that flows from your "both teach the same gospel" axiom?

Who taught James that? Was it the risen Christ who taught him about imputed righteousness?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#138,046
#138,046
OneOfHis said:
Well can someone be saved and have no "works" to show ...

Yes.

Saved freely by grace appart from works.

The man on the cross beside Jesus wasn't saved because his faith had works along side it..

Peter was still saved despite His lack of works when before man, he denied Jesus... many times....


If a man lost the use of his legs, arms and mouth... he can still know he is saved by the blood of Jesus... even if his faith came after the loss of his bodily functions...
Click to expand...


Truth!! .... @OneOfHis you rock!

Amen and Amen!!
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#138,049
Oct 14, 2013
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#138,049
Guojing said:
So you didn't really mean what you said there? But that was also what James 2:14 literally said too right?

I believe both are inspired, yes.
Click to expand...



DO YOU BELIEVE JAMES 2:10 was inspired?

WE DO LITERALLY.

AND JAMES 2:14 is what HAPPENS AFTER YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED PAST TENSE.
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#138,050
Apr 3, 2019
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OneOfHis said:
James didn't just say a verse, he wrote a whole letter.


Yes, he is aware we are saved by grace through faith.
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I'm not convinced - To me James is still claiming to keep the law as he majors on it and in Acts he's demanding Paul purify according to the law.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#138,051
#138,051
OneOfHis said:
hope youve been well sis

😁😁😁


seems things here are the same

hope at least some have been blessed and had their eyes opened....

shame how many people belittle Christ and elevate self....🤦‍♂️
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Livin the dream in TO ..LOL :)

Yes they keep coming that is for sure.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#138,054
Nov 20, 2018
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azamzimtoti said:
He contradicts himself in his letter in my opinion. We don't have a speech from him preaching the gospel. All we can do is piece together what is written.



I don't think so, his letter was written to living people in his lifetime. There is no mention of a gospel in his letter, he concentrates on the Law and that's why he strong armed Paul into the purifying ritual - if he was preaching the gospel he would have realised these ritual shadows had passed.

James was still thinking he needed to cleanse the outside of the cup.

(Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.)

Fortunately God had that temple and it's rituals destroyed permanently.

(Acts 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.)
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In Acts 15 and Acts 21, James is actually supporting Paul and his position with the gentiles.
James is certainly not attempting to impose the law on gentiles.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#138,055
#138,055
azamzimtoti said:
I think I posted the verses before on here, one claiming Abraham was declared righteous on belief the other being declared righteous and justified by his work on the offering of Isaac. I know you don't agree with me on this.
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That would be correct.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
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Jan 12, 2019
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cv5 said:
In Acts 15 and Acts 21, James is actually supporting Paul and his position with the gentiles.
James is certainly not attempting to impose the law on gentiles.
Click to expand...
But did James believed that Jews who believed still needed to circumcise their kids and follow the Law of Moses, as stated in Acts 15 and 21?
 
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