Not By Works

[Lafftur]

So Jesus talked to you directly before you heard the Gospel?

He did to me. Took me to Heaven, I played with an incredibly enormous Lion and we laughed so much....we just laughed......couldn’t talk, we’d just look at each other and laugh!!

Heaven is filled with so much laughter, to me....so much joy!!

 

[Lafftur]

It’s FINISHED. Jesus Christ died on the cross for whosoever will believe IN HIM AS SAVIOR. His works for our salvation are finished and COMPLETE.

Let Jesus Christ seal and baptize all that believe with the Holy Spirit.

Then, let the Holy Spirit do His work in us just as Jesus Christ has done His work in us.

Let the Holy Spirit empower us to be witnesses of Jesus Christ,

Let the Fruit of the Holy Spirit manifest in our character,

Let the Gifts of the Holy Spirit manifest in all believers according as the Holy Spirit gives according to the Father’s Will and good pleasure in His Children.....

 

[dcontroversal]

My belief,works follow after salvation...not before..you can’t work for your salvation...if people believe that...then they are still in darkness.....or am I judging when I say that?....that they are in darkness.....or are they confused?

I would say both to your questions....and as I have pointed out many times.....the bible accurately lays the following bare.

a. Paul --> A man is justified before God by faith

b. James -->the above faith seen by men based upon works

c. James is addressing a MERE belief in God as opposed to saving faith into Jesus. The Jews to this very day have the same problem.....they believe in God (AS THE DEMONS DO) but have no saving faith into Christ (or even that option)

d. Also.....Believers have works of every flavor...some good, some bad (1st Corinthians 3) as well as biblical examples -->David, Samson, Peter, Abraham, Moses

However.....We cannot alleviate the absolute truth that Jesus was addressing the false teachers of his day and what they were teaching when he referenced a tree being known by what it bears...

And....as far as believers...A tree takes growth and maturity before it produces fruit.....for example....an apple tree takes 2 to 3 years to produce...maybe 1 apple, maybe 20 or more....it can also have good edible apples and a few rotten or apples with worms.....there is NO SET time frame or amount of fruit that can be predicted....and without a doubt...it is an apple tree from the moment it sprouts from seed!

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

I would say both to your questions....and as I have pointed out many times.....the bible accurately lays the following bare.

a. Paul --> A man is justified before God by faith

b. James -->the above faith seen by men based upon works

c. James is addressing a MERE belief in God as opposed to saving faith into Jesus. The Jews to this very day have the same problem.....they believe in God (AS THE DEMONS DO) but have no saving faith into Christ (or even that option)

d. Also.....Believers have works of every flavor...some good, some bad (1st Corinthians 3) as well as biblical examples -->David, Samson, Peter, Abraham, Moses

However.....We cannot alleviate the absolute truth that Jesus was addressing the false teachers of his day and what they were teaching when he referenced a tree being known by what it bears...

And....as far as believers...A tree takes growth and maturity before it produces fruit.....for example....an apple tree takes 2 to 3 years to produce...maybe 1 apple, maybe 20 or more....it can also have good edible apples and a few rotten or apples with worms.....there is NO SET time frame or amount of fruit that can be predicted....and without a doubt...it is an apple tree from the moment it sprouts from seed!

DC!!! What a great teaching my friend I like this side of you.

I just posted something on another thread and I wanted to post it on one of your other threads two days ago but got busy and never did. I will post it here and I think if we can learn from each other this site will be a blessing to all.

"What I feel people fail to grasp is that Jesus lived Torah perfectly, without judging anybody. We can’t just read the NT without understanding the old. If we do it we will miss what is really happening in the NT.

Example, when the woman that was brought to Jesus for committing adultery he didn’t pick up a stone to kill her. According to the law of Moses she should have been killed! So why did Jesus do something that was perceived as opposing the law?

The previous day before the Pharisees brought the woman to him, Jesus told everyone he is the one they have been waiting for. They rejected him.

The very next day the Pharisees tried to corner him and asked him about Torah, but He teaches them out of Torah. He never opposed Torah.

They asked him what to do to this lady and he quoted Torah to them:

Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

So first of all they only brought him the woman and not the man, and then very importantly He quoted Torah again by saying you without sin cast the first stone, quoting Deuteronomy 19 verses 16-18.

Deu 19:16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;

Deu 19:17 Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;

Deu 19:18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
Deu 19:19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.

According to Torah they were bearing false witness and it was on them. Jesus was teaching Torah and we should be careful to judge as we are bringing curses on ourselves if we bear false witness.

After everybody left he said to her to sin no more. He didn’t tell her to not keep Torah my friend."

You will know what thread it was for when you read the first sentence by the way how is lockdown treating you brother?

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

I would say both to your questions....and as I have pointed out many times.....the bible accurately lays the following bare.

a. Paul --> A man is justified before God by faith

b. James -->the above faith seen by men based upon works

c. James is addressing a MERE belief in God as opposed to saving faith into Jesus. The Jews to this very day have the same problem.....they believe in God (AS THE DEMONS DO) but have no saving faith into Christ (or even that option)

d. Also.....Believers have works of every flavor...some good, some bad (1st Corinthians 3) as well as biblical examples -->David, Samson, Peter, Abraham, Moses

However.....We cannot alleviate the absolute truth that Jesus was addressing the false teachers of his day and what they were teaching when he referenced a tree being known by what it bears...

And....as far as believers...A tree takes growth and maturity before it produces fruit.....for example....an apple tree takes 2 to 3 years to produce...maybe 1 apple, maybe 20 or more....it can also have good edible apples and a few rotten or apples with worms.....there is NO SET time frame or amount of fruit that can be predicted....and without a doubt...it is an apple tree from the moment it sprouts from seed!

One thing I would like to add, even the OT saints were saved by faith through grace and never by keeping the law...

 

[dcontroversal]

DC!!! What a great teaching my friend I like this side of you.

I just posted something on another thread and I wanted to post it on one of your other threads two days ago but got busy and never did. I will post it here and I think if we can learn from each other this site will be a blessing to all.

"What I feel people fail to grasp is that Jesus lived Torah perfectly, without judging anybody. We can’t just read the NT without understanding the old. If we do it we will miss what is really happening in the NT.

Example, when the woman that was brought to Jesus for committing adultery he didn’t pick up a stone to kill her. According to the law of Moses she should have been killed! So why did Jesus do something that was perceived as opposing the law?

The previous day before the Pharisees brought the woman to him, Jesus told everyone he is the one they have been waiting for. They rejected him.

The very next day the Pharisees tried to corner him and asked him about Torah, but He teaches them out of Torah. He never opposed Torah.

They asked him what to do to this lady and he quoted Torah to them:

Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

So first of all they only brought him the woman and not the man, and then very importantly He quoted Torah again by saying you without sin cast the first stone, quoting Deuteronomy 19 verses 16-18.

Deu 19:16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;

Deu 19:17 Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;

Deu 19:18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
Deu 19:19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.

According to Torah they were bearing false witness and it was on them. Jesus was teaching Torah and we should be careful to judge as we are bringing curses on ourselves if we bear false witness.

After everybody left he said to her to sin no more. He didn’t tell her to not keep Torah my friend."

You will know what thread it was for when you read the first sentence by the way how is lockdown treating you brother?

Lockdown is about over, got my covid test bacl today and was negative....get out midnight Friday....is 1:57 pm Thursday.....and the Jews were breaking several laws indeed when they vrought the woman before him taken in adultry.....it would have been against the law to condemn and stone her.

 

[stonesoffire]

[

I think it was purple red and blue I think makes purple😀

I think I know who you were before. Just can’t remember the name.

 

[Guojing]

DC!!! What a great teaching my friend I like this side of you.

I just posted something on another thread and I wanted to post it on one of your other threads two days ago but got busy and never did. I will post it here and I think if we can learn from each other this site will be a blessing to all.

"What I feel people fail to grasp is that Jesus lived Torah perfectly, without judging anybody. We can’t just read the NT without understanding the old. If we do it we will miss what is really happening in the NT.

Example, when the woman that was brought to Jesus for committing adultery he didn’t pick up a stone to kill her. According to the law of Moses she should have been killed! So why did Jesus do something that was perceived as opposing the law?

The previous day before the Pharisees brought the woman to him, Jesus told everyone he is the one they have been waiting for. They rejected him.

The very next day the Pharisees tried to corner him and asked him about Torah, but He teaches them out of Torah. He never opposed Torah.

They asked him what to do to this lady and he quoted Torah to them:

Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

So first of all they only brought him the woman and not the man, and then very importantly He quoted Torah again by saying you without sin cast the first stone, quoting Deuteronomy 19 verses 16-18.

Deu 19:16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;

Deu 19:17 Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;

Deu 19:18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
Deu 19:19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.

According to Torah they were bearing false witness and it was on them. Jesus was teaching Torah and we should be careful to judge as we are bringing curses on ourselves if we bear false witness.

After everybody left he said to her to sin no more. He didn’t tell her to not keep Torah my friend."

You will know what thread it was for when you read the first sentence by the way how is lockdown treating you brother?

Do you believe in The impeccability of Christ?

Could Christ have even sin when he was a man?

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

He did to me. Took me to Heaven, I played with an incredibly enormous Lion and we laughed so much....we just laughed......couldn’t talk, we’d just look at each other and laugh!!

Heaven is filled with so much laughter, to me....so much joy!!

When I red this all kind of nasty answers popped into my head and for that I apologize. I have thought it and repented. Instead of judging this I will rather tell you a story;

Our neighbor tragically lost his wife and daughter in an accident about 8 years ago. She and three of their children were in a head-on collision an she and the baby girl died on impact. Somehow the paramedics realized that one of the children was missing when they investigated the scene. The third child as I understand it was unconscious from the impact. After investigating the field next to the accident they found the dead body of their 4 year old son that was fling from the vehicle. They immediately started with CPR and could resuscitate him but his life was in jeopardy. He woke up the next day and made a full recovery.

When he woke up he told them that somebody came to fetch his sister out of the car. He could remember going up with his sister to this person. A very friendly man talked to him while he was sitting on his lap. Apparently the man said to him he has a choice, he can stay where he was or go back. He said to the man that he thinks his dad is crying and would like to comfort him. The next moment he woke up in hospital.

That coming from a 4 year old was a blessing to me.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Do you believe in The impeccability of Christ?

Could Christ have even sin when he was a man?

He never sinned.

 

[dcontroversal]

Do you believe in The impeccability of Christ?

Could Christ have even sin when he was a man?

If Christ could not have had the ability to sin, HIM being tempted in all points as we are tempted would have had NO practical purpose. We cannot alleviate the humanity of Jesus and or him being tempted and tried.....could he have sinned YES....did he sin NO and that is what makes his sacrifice so perfect!

 

[Guojing]

If Christ could not have had the ability to sin, HIM being tempted in all points as we are tempted would have had NO practical purpose. We cannot alleviate the humanity of Jesus and or him being tempted and tried.....could he have sinned YES....did he sin NO and that is what makes his sacrifice so perfect!

Alright, Since he liked your post, I could understand Better why he wrote his last post.

 

[Guojing]

He never sinned.

To be clear, I assumed you mean he could have but he did not?

 

[stonesoffire]

faith with out works is dead...biblical..so why does a born again disagree with that.
I’m not calling out the person who disagreed....just don’t understand it...their disagreement?

One needs to read the whole chapter for that answer JRosie. James says if you are aware of a need and have the means to fill the need, yet say to the person, just trust God for what you need....it’s a dead faith. Dead is meaning corpse in Greek. No life in that one who lives a stingy life.

Their faith isn’t producing life.

 

[DorothyMae]

Apostle,star,eternally grateful,stones of fire,...,the names these members use are to glorify God...show their love for him....nothing to do with Pride..DorothyMae.

Jesus said when to the effect, when you are the public arena, don’t take for yourself places or names of honor but take the lower humble place. Calling oneself by a very flattering name is not honoring to Him. God can give a man an honoring name but if the man takes one, it is only done in pride with a “I am great”
view of oneself. Paul called himself the “chief of sinners” not something lofty.

The deed is done and cannot be undone but it they said I’m proud with my humble handle, their chosen compliment to themselves deserves a closer look. I’m very sure God doesn’t recognize He is loved when a man praises himself.

 

[stonesoffire]

Finally got to the end. Interruptions all day but welcome ones.

night all

 

[DorothyMae]

One needs to read the whole chapter for that answer JRosie. James says if you are aware of a need and have the means to fill the need, yet say to the person, just trust God for what you need....it’s a dead faith. Dead is meaning corpse in Greek. No life in that one who lives a stingy life.

Their faith isn’t producing life.

This limits the Word in its application as is, only under that soecial circumstance does faith without works apply. And then there is the Greek application that really eviscerates the counsel the HS is giving.

James is saying if there is no evidence of your believing in what you choose to do, a faith that once was alive is now dead. They once had a faith but it is now a corpse.

Hmmmm how does that fit in with OSAS? I guess works are an optional extra because for them, faith can never be born and then die. A born again believer can never not have faith for OSASers, right? Then how come James describes this faith once alive but now a corpse as a possibility?

 

[Lafftur]

When I red this all kind of nasty answers popped into my head and for that I apologize. I have thought it and repented. Instead of judging this I will rather tell you a story;

Our neighbor tragically lost his wife and daughter in an accident about 8 years ago. She and three of their children were in a head-on collision an she and the baby girl died on impact. Somehow the paramedics realized that one of the children was missing when they investigated the scene. The third child as I understand it was unconscious from the impact. After investigating the field next to the accident they found the dead body of their 4 year old son that was fling from the vehicle. They immediately started with CPR and could resuscitate him but his life was in jeopardy. He woke up the next day and made a full recovery.

When he woke up he told them that somebody came to fetch his sister out of the car. He could remember going up with his sister to this person. A very friendly man talked to him while he was sitting on his lap. Apparently the man said to him he has a choice, he can stay where he was or go back. He said to the man that he thinks his dad is crying and would like to comfort him. The next moment he woke up in hospital.

That coming from a 4 year old was a blessing to me.

Thank you for sharing.....there’s more happening than what we see with our natural eyes....we need the Holy Spirit to truly understand all things...

I was only a child - 7 years old when I played and laughed with The Lion....two years ago I had another dream....the Lion stood beside my bed, smelled me and profusely licked me...I was a bit upset in my dream and said, “Lord, I wanted the Lion to ROAR over me,not lick me un controllable!”

Jesus said, “He remembers you, you played with Him when you were a child.”

I cried...I too remember the Lion - majestic and beautiful! I began to laugh.....remembering our playful laughter..

Regarding the terrible auto accident and loss of life.....we don’t see the entire whole picture....only the physical realm, not the spiritual or heavenly realm......in the spiritual-there are demons arguing over the souls but, in the heavenly there is Jesus Christ that just simply stands and says, “He is mine. She is mine. I WILL take from the Earth what IS MINE.”

 

[stonesoffire]

Stones of fire always has been an intriguing subject for me. That’s why I chose it. I hope to walk among them knowing that the enemy of our souls lost the privilege.

Maybe a victory walk with Jesus.

 

[DorothyMae]

When I red this all kind of nasty answers popped into my head and for that I apologize. I have thought it and repented. Instead of judging this I will rather tell you a story;

Our neighbor tragically lost his wife and daughter in an accident about 8 years ago. She and three of their children were in a head-on collision an she and the baby girl died on impact. Somehow the paramedics realized that one of the children was missing when they investigated the scene. The third child as I understand it was unconscious from the impact. After investigating the field next to the accident they found the dead body of their 4 year old son that was fling from the vehicle. They immediately started with CPR and could resuscitate him but his life was in jeopardy. He woke up the next day and made a full recovery.

When he woke up he told them that somebody came to fetch his sister out of the car. He could remember going up with his sister to this person. A very friendly man talked to him while he was sitting on his lap. Apparently the man said to him he has a choice, he can stay where he was or go back. He said to the man that he thinks his dad is crying and would like to comfort him. The next moment he woke up in hospital.

That coming from a 4 year old was a blessing to me.

Ian McCormick has a similar amazing story but as an adult which was somewhat different as he’d reached the age of moral accountability already.

Nice account, thanks for sharing.