Bible and Money: Why God Supports Free Market Capitalism
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The true life is simple, natural, and genuine, same is true with our family, community and social economy. People creates "systems" and other concepts which always cause to severely dangerous problems. It is just as simple and natural as when Adam and Eve were in the Eden, if not eating the fruits from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, imagine how wonderful life would be.
Capitalism, as I understand, and as EleventhHour alluded to, doesn't identify oppression and sin. Essentially, (it means in theory, but not usually in practice), if someone owns all the land, or all the air, or all the water, or something else essential to life, he can charge for that whatever he desires. It can in extremes be a justification for fascism.
In the bible, God made sure that everyone had the right to land, as everyone needs land to prosper. Fortunately, the Israelites weren't so foolish as to believe someone could legitimately own the air, or the water, or the sunlight, so there were no laws for these things. This is a lesson that modern man would do well to learn.
However, to distinguish from such foolish thinking as the above, and to distinguish from the "croney capitalism" communist sympathisers have made our current economic system into (i.e. using the government to oppress the free market, while at the same time, using capitalism to justify the ownership by corporations of public property such as land, air, water, sunlight, etc.), I believe a "free market" system is a better descriptor than a "capitalist" system.
In the bible, God made sure that everyone had the right to land, as everyone needs land to prosper. Fortunately, the Israelites weren't so foolish as to believe someone could legitimately own the air, or the water, or the sunlight, so there were no laws for these things. This is a lesson that modern man would do well to learn.
However, to distinguish from such foolish thinking as the above, and to distinguish from the "croney capitalism" communist sympathisers have made our current economic system into (i.e. using the government to oppress the free market, while at the same time, using capitalism to justify the ownership by corporations of public property such as land, air, water, sunlight, etc.), I believe a "free market" system is a better descriptor than a "capitalist" system.
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I agree. Religion identifies sin. And Biblically the government has the power to stop what is wicked but the good remains to prosper.
Unfortunately as a nation runs from God or some kind of morality then Government believes they must get stricter. Corruption also rises within the people then out the people get voted into office.
But by my understanding of free market capitalism it by design is supposed to run on limited government intervention. That government intervention is supposed to defending fair trade and protecting against corruption like you mentioned.
But past that it should be free to run. A system that promotes quality work, drive, ambition, and competition which also sparks the need to invent.
So obviously I am not talking about how the radical liberalist defines capitalism or how Bernie Sanders demonizes it while he himself profited off of it.
I believe they must go together.
Unfortunately as a nation runs from God or some kind of morality then Government believes they must get stricter. Corruption also rises within the people then out the people get voted into office.
But by my understanding of free market capitalism it by design is supposed to run on limited government intervention. That government intervention is supposed to defending fair trade and protecting against corruption like you mentioned.
But past that it should be free to run. A system that promotes quality work, drive, ambition, and competition which also sparks the need to invent.
So obviously I am not talking about how the radical liberalist defines capitalism or how Bernie Sanders demonizes it while he himself profited off of it.
I believe they must go together.
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I dont agree with that belief necessarily.
I think God wants things to be FREE in that you do thave to pay for them! lol
not so you are free to CHARGE obscene amounts of money.
Look in Isaiah. God does not charge you for prayer and you dont need to earn your salvation.
another thing how we know capitilism is wrong is when richer people capitalise on the suffering of poorer people. The love of money is the root of all evil. when people put money as God, they are really setting themselves up for a fall...eg GFC, stockmarket crash, red october etc. Happens all the time, cos people get greedy.
I think God wants things to be FREE in that you do thave to pay for them! lol
not so you are free to CHARGE obscene amounts of money.
Look in Isaiah. God does not charge you for prayer and you dont need to earn your salvation.
another thing how we know capitilism is wrong is when richer people capitalise on the suffering of poorer people. The love of money is the root of all evil. when people put money as God, they are really setting themselves up for a fall...eg GFC, stockmarket crash, red october etc. Happens all the time, cos people get greedy.
As I understand, in a free market, the emphasis is keeping the government out of the economy, (which is a good thing). The more things governments touch, the more things are ruined. The only role of a government is justice - not "social justice", but real justice.
In the theory of capitalism, the focus is not so much on keeping the government out, but on the guys with the capital being able to do what they want with that capital. This by itself isn't a problem, but when the law of the land allows these "capitalists" to own disproportionate amounts of public property as "capital" (air, water, land, sunlight etc.) it becomes a problem, because such public property is public, and not for the sole profit of corporations or individuals.
In the theory of capitalism, the focus is not so much on keeping the government out, but on the guys with the capital being able to do what they want with that capital. This by itself isn't a problem, but when the law of the land allows these "capitalists" to own disproportionate amounts of public property as "capital" (air, water, land, sunlight etc.) it becomes a problem, because such public property is public, and not for the sole profit of corporations or individuals.
J
Jesus and the 12 practiced communism. the community of John the baptist did the same.
not sure why anyone would think the Lord supports free market capitalism. you want to see capitalism in its purest form go to Nigeria, Philippines, or the US circa 1900. i remember reading about the US back then, 16 hr work days 6 days a week, your kids had to go to work as well. lost a limb at work you were fired on the spot and your family starved.
not sure why anyone would think the Lord supports free market capitalism. you want to see capitalism in its purest form go to Nigeria, Philippines, or the US circa 1900. i remember reading about the US back then, 16 hr work days 6 days a week, your kids had to go to work as well. lost a limb at work you were fired on the spot and your family starved.
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J
when you remove government from the economy you end up with the great depression, before that the government let them do what they wanted. government came in and made regulation and the US had some of the most progressive years ever. all these regulations began to roll back in the early 70s, and now people dont own their homes, both parents have to work to make ends meet and families are in bigger credit debt than ever.
No you don't. That's problem, reaction, solution thinking. The problem wasn't the government in the economy, that was the solution. The problem was allowing the Federal Reserve the power to create money (or the government borrowing money into existence, rather than creating it interest free). The power to create money should have remained solely the power of government. You get rid of the Fed, then you don't create great depressions from usurious practices, and then the government can stay away from manipulating the economy to resolve the problem the introduction of usury created.
Sure, you'll still get economic high's and low's - that's part of life. But if you've done away with usury, you'll do away with the motive for credit, and people won't be tempted or forced to spend more than they can afford. Those that do - well, some folks will always need to learn things the hard way.
Sure, you'll still get economic high's and low's - that's part of life. But if you've done away with usury, you'll do away with the motive for credit, and people won't be tempted or forced to spend more than they can afford. Those that do - well, some folks will always need to learn things the hard way.
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J
central banks are a whole different thing. connected sure but not what i am talking about.
you let these guys run hog wild and it will be a nightmare. the media today presents "regulation" as if its a dark boogyman, regulation simply means rules or laws, why in the world would we let these people operate with no rules?
ken lay and enron pushed hard for deregulation in calli and got it, how did that work out for california? thats about the most simple example of what happens when you remove regulation.
you let these guys run hog wild and it will be a nightmare. the media today presents "regulation" as if its a dark boogyman, regulation simply means rules or laws, why in the world would we let these people operate with no rules?
ken lay and enron pushed hard for deregulation in calli and got it, how did that work out for california? thats about the most simple example of what happens when you remove regulation.
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I'd rather say the Scripture supports people getting wages according to their works, which is anticommunist, as well as giving freely, instead of compulsory giving, aka the state cutting into what you rightfully earned because they decided to give it to someone else. Taxes are different of course...
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i don't think you have that correct.
there was no 'church' under Moses -- 10% went to support the Levites, not 'whatever church you think is best'
all tithe was of produce & flocks/herds. not monetary. if you didn't want to concede your produce/animals you could 'redeem' your tithe using money, but the priests determines the value & adds 1/5, you have to use the temple currency, so what you pay is 12% of the determined value, if you use money, not 10% of what was considered your 'income' and you are not the one who determines the value.
on top of the regular tithe for the priests, there were other required offerings - amounting to as much as a third of ones 'income' - and much of this is designated for the poor, the orphan, the widow, the foreigner & alien in the land. not just 'the gleanings from the corner of the field' but all the firstfruits every 3rd year was to be 'brought to the storehouse' for whoever had need.
this isn't 'only if you have excess to give' it is required of all who have anything to give, whether they consider it 'extra' or not.
you are obligated to lend money at 0% profit to the needy, personally. you are obligated to give, personally, to those in need, and invite the hungry to eat with you, if you have food. on top of giving a tithe to the Levites for their own needs.
all debts cancelled every 7th year, no matter what is still owed.
no one owned property - it belongs to God, and He 'allows' us to dwell in it as sojourners.
every 50th year any property that had changed hands from the family to whom God had designated it, went back under their custody/stewardship
the over-riding principle is that none of this belongs to you; it belongs to God, and you must love your neighbor - providing for them out of what God chooses to bless you with. essentially property and wealth are not for us, but for others.
there was no 'church' under Moses -- 10% went to support the Levites, not 'whatever church you think is best'
all tithe was of produce & flocks/herds. not monetary. if you didn't want to concede your produce/animals you could 'redeem' your tithe using money, but the priests determines the value & adds 1/5, you have to use the temple currency, so what you pay is 12% of the determined value, if you use money, not 10% of what was considered your 'income' and you are not the one who determines the value.
on top of the regular tithe for the priests, there were other required offerings - amounting to as much as a third of ones 'income' - and much of this is designated for the poor, the orphan, the widow, the foreigner & alien in the land. not just 'the gleanings from the corner of the field' but all the firstfruits every 3rd year was to be 'brought to the storehouse' for whoever had need.
this isn't 'only if you have excess to give' it is required of all who have anything to give, whether they consider it 'extra' or not.
you are obligated to lend money at 0% profit to the needy, personally. you are obligated to give, personally, to those in need, and invite the hungry to eat with you, if you have food. on top of giving a tithe to the Levites for their own needs.
all debts cancelled every 7th year, no matter what is still owed.
no one owned property - it belongs to God, and He 'allows' us to dwell in it as sojourners.
every 50th year any property that had changed hands from the family to whom God had designated it, went back under their custody/stewardship
the over-riding principle is that none of this belongs to you; it belongs to God, and you must love your neighbor - providing for them out of what God chooses to bless you with. essentially property and wealth are not for us, but for others.
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@Roughsoul1991
God wants the perfect middle way (as usual). I think God hates both capitalism and communism. I see neither in the Bible. Both have some good aspects, but as it is realized by men, both kill the opposite good principles. There is both strong individualism and strong collectivism in Christianity, neither should be realized to the detriment of one another.
Some examples: Have compassion on fellow man, strengthen the poor, yet the Bible also says who does not work will not eat and rebukes leeching because sometimes giving is enabling irresponsibility. Everyone gets wages for his work, everyone dies for their sins, what you sow you also reap. But also we are told to share, because we also received what we didn't work for, Jesus did entirely. Build up resources for the old age, yet do not pile up riches (Proverbs), etc.
God wants the perfect middle way (as usual). I think God hates both capitalism and communism. I see neither in the Bible. Both have some good aspects, but as it is realized by men, both kill the opposite good principles. There is both strong individualism and strong collectivism in Christianity, neither should be realized to the detriment of one another.
Some examples: Have compassion on fellow man, strengthen the poor, yet the Bible also says who does not work will not eat and rebukes leeching because sometimes giving is enabling irresponsibility. Everyone gets wages for his work, everyone dies for their sins, what you sow you also reap. But also we are told to share, because we also received what we didn't work for, Jesus did entirely. Build up resources for the old age, yet do not pile up riches (Proverbs), etc.
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if a person is so concerned about their 'right' to posses property, wealth & money and 'getting their fair share of it' are they not a slave to it?
it's all about "me" and "my" but none of this is ours. all the silver, and all the gold, and all the land, and all the flocks, are God's.
we should learn to be content in every situation, both with and without, honored or persecuted -- more than content, full of thanksgiving!
it's all about "me" and "my" but none of this is ours. all the silver, and all the gold, and all the land, and all the flocks, are God's.
we should learn to be content in every situation, both with and without, honored or persecuted -- more than content, full of thanksgiving!